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November 28th, 2020, 17:43
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
Or maybe just have a different opinion to yours…

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Yep and I accept your opinion with an open mind Pladio.
Some members just like to antagonize and think their always right.
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November 28th, 2020, 17:46
Originally Posted by crpgnut View Post
I think this is one I'll play off and on. I get tired of the tedious combat but then I'll come back in 3 hours and play for another couple. Even though I listed all the dislikes above, the one thing that is wonderful is the graphics. As a walking simulator this game is pure eye candy. In fact, if I could turn off all the robots, I'd probably play longer
Thanks for the short review CRPGNut. I agree with you about the combat as critics compared the game to Witcher III on it's release. How far did you play the game?
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November 28th, 2020, 21:07
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
Or maybe just have a different opinion to yours.
You're welcome to have any opinion you want of course. You can claim water isn't wet if it suits you. Just don't get offended when people point out when you're obviously wrong.
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November 28th, 2020, 21:12
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
You're welcome to have any opinion you want of course. You can claim water isn't wet if it suits you. Just don't get offended when people point out when you're obviously wrong.
Of course your opinion is the right one because that's how it works.

There's literally a new thread about someone asking for rpgs to play who says none of the gothic or risen games are rpgs. But it's OK JDR said he's right about all things concerning rpgs so just listen to him.



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November 28th, 2020, 21:19
Originally Posted by crpgnut View Post
I find the game limited. You have 3 basic classes, a dozen or less weapon choices (with limited upgrades), a handful of outfits, etc. The game is an obvious console port and it tells. It feels like Witcher 3 with all the limitations to skills, class, gear, protagonist,etc.

A single character that you can play and it's named. I'm not really sure Aloy is female. She acts like a dude and her father figure is an absolute douche that I wish she would have killed. Follow! Heel! Stay! Good boy…um girl…um robot creature. No real romance though a few dudes try to romance her and the one she seems to like is a mommy's boy.

I think I like the lore overall and wish there would have been much more of that in the early going. If this was a game about collecting technology and then using it I'd be more stoked.

Don't hate the game, but I find the console limitations….limiting. The biggest thing that makes no sense is that none of the monsters would pose a challenge to present day troops. There is nothing Aloy can't kill with simple weapons, so how did they wipe out mankind? Is that explained later? One railgun would pretty much win against anything in the game.

I think this is one I'll play off and on. I get tired of the tedious combat but then I'll come back in 3 hours and play for another couple. Even though I listed all the dislikes above, the one thing that is wonderful is the graphics. As a walking simulator this game is pure eye candy. In fact, if I could turn off all the robots, I'd probably play longer
You've always nitpicked games in odd ways so I'm used to that from you.

As someone who has played the game for 100+ hours, I thought it was really good. I'm a big fan of post-apoc though, and I know you're not, so that's probably the biggest difference.

If playing a fixed protagonist is that big a deal to you, then why did you get the game knowing that beforehand?
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November 28th, 2020, 21:24
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
Of course your opinion is the right one because that's how it works.
No, but when it's obvious that you're wrong, and yet you continue to argue anyways, you just start to look foolish after awhile.

There's little doubt HZD is an RPG. We've listed the reasons why, and the only thing you could come up with is that it's an action adventure because it doesn't have as much C&C as you like.

What makes you look even more foolish is that you've never even played the game.
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November 28th, 2020, 22:05
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
No, but when it's obvious that you're wrong, and yet you continue to argue anyways, you just start to look foolish after awhile.

There's little doubt HZD is an RPG. We've listed the reasons why, and the only thing you could come up with is that it's an action adventure because it doesn't have as much C&C as you like.

What makes you look even more foolish is that you've never even played the game.
Actually, there's a lot of doubt HZD is an RPG.
You have no choice in how you develop your character from a story perspective, i.e. roleplay a character. You're a person who listens to everyone and has no agency in the game at all. You can't decide on joining factions, you can't decide on how you complete quests, you can't decide who you are.

If you can't understand that then you're simply not looking.

If you think your opinion is the only one that matters, then maybe try using google as I'm not the only person who thinks it's not an RPG:

https://www.reddit.com/r/horizon/com…mainly_an_rpg/
https://forum.psnprofiles.com/topic/…really-an-rpg/


These are just two of the first threads I found by googling is HZD an RPG?

But if you want to be a wiseass, then so be it.

Just some replies for your reference:

I mean you play a role during the game…but its not an rpg as such.

Its a 3rd person action adventure.
It's on that borderline between RPG and action-adventure like some of the Assassin's Creed series. I would argue that God of War and Ghost of Tsushima are just as much RPGs as HZD is.
Nope is another case of "hey look it have a skill tree so is a RPG case". But it's a really good game can't deny that.

I see it more in the action/adventure open world with little touches of rol play with no to much to consider a pure RPG
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November 28th, 2020, 22:35
Sure, I wouldn't expect you to be the only one this narrow-minded.

In any topic, there's always going to be a minority that wants to argue against common thinking.
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November 28th, 2020, 22:41
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Sure, I wouldn't expect you to be the only one this narrow-minded.

In any topic, there's always going to be a minority that wants to argue against common thinking.
Go back to pot meet kettle…

It's not because the devs call it an RPG that it's an RPG.
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November 28th, 2020, 22:53
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
Go back to pot meet kettle…

It's not because the devs call it an RPG that it's an RPG.
Correct. It's because it contains more than enough RPG aspects to be called an RPG by most people. Which is probably why it's considered an RPG in general and labeled as such.

I've got a novel idea. Rather than continuing to argue over a game you've never even played and looking foolish for it, why don't you actually try playing it?
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November 28th, 2020, 23:04
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Correct. It's because it contains more than enough RPG aspects to be called an RPG by most people. Which is probably why it's considered an RPG in general and labeled as such.

I've got a novel idea. Rather than continuing to argue over a game you've never even played and looking foolish for it, why don't you actually try playing it?
Well, since you're the only one thinking it's foolish and narrow-minded to look at reviews, websites and let's plays to judge a game, maybe I shouldn't listen to you…

Here's a novel idea, don't call people names and they might actually listen to what you have to say a bit more. It might make you a better person too.

You don't need to play every game ever made to make an informed opinion about it.

I've already pointed out that I'm certainly not the only one not counting it as an RPG and you dismiss that too. I'm done with you.
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November 28th, 2020, 23:19
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
Well, since you're the only one thinking it's foolish and narrow-minded to look at reviews, websites and let's plays to judge a game, maybe I shouldn't listen to you.
Would you like to point out where I said that about reviews, websites, and let's plays?
The majority of those are only going to verify that HZD is considered an RPG.

Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
Here's a novel idea, don't call people names and they might actually listen to what you have to say a bit more. It might make you a better person too.

You don't need to play every game ever made to make an informed opinion about it.

I've already pointed out that I'm certainly not the only one not counting it as an RPG and you dismiss that too. I'm done with you.
Rather than trying to lay out a valid argument about why HZD isn't an RPG, your response has basically just been "Some other people don't think it's an RPG either."

So yeah, I'm going to dismiss that.
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November 29th, 2020, 05:36
I keep comparing it to another Post-Apoc game….

Let's do weapon classes:
HZD: Spear, Bows, Ropegun, Sling/bombs, Rattler
F4: Pistols, Rifles, Pipe, Shotguns, Heavy Weapons, Laser, Plasma, Alien, Gama, Zeta, Poison, Grenades, Mines, Flares, Traps, Swords, Knives, Axe, Chainsaw, Baseball Bat, Lead Pipes, Fist Weapons, okay enough but not done.

How about things you raise when leveling?
HZD: We have a total of 44 skills in the base game. However several of these are just a second level or more of a base skill but we'll count them.
F4: You have 7 Stats that can be raised 10 times for 70 points. Each of those 7 stats have 10 perks most of which have 4 levels, so roughly 280 more things to differentiate your game. 350 things to count vs 44. Close.

Exploration: Both games have tons of places to explore and lots of loot. Wash

Special stuff to find: Both games have mini-collections that you acquire as you play. Wash

Characters: Neither game allows you to choose your character. In HZD, you are Aloy and in Fallout 4 you are Nate or Nora. You can have male parts in F4 and you get to play an adult. Okay, you can mod Fallout and be anyone you want to be, but that's just no fair. Fallout 4 has companions, relationships etc. Funnily enough, both Nora and Aloy seem more masculine than Nate

Let's see PC RPGS have save anywhere: HZD: Nope Fallout 4: Yep

Choice and Consequence: Let's see in Fallout 4 there are 4 major factions that you can choose and several different endings based on those factions. HZD you fight a crazy computer no matter what.

This is just me having fun, but HZD isn't a full-fledged RPG. It has elements and is definitely fun for a little while but it's not deep enough anywhere to compete with a pure rpg. That's okay, there's room enough on my pc for both. I find it to be way more rpg than those combat tactics games that HX so loves to post on the news page. At least this game gets discussed.
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November 29th, 2020, 06:23
I'm not quite sure what your point is there. So FO4 has more weapons and skills. It also has terrible writing, weak combat, and a difficulty curve that's completely broken.

Unlike you, I've put a lot of hours into both. I enjoyed both in different ways, but I think a lot of people would agree that FO4 is pretty mediocre unless you mod the hell out of it.

And FO4 really isn't vey "deep". More like wide as an ocean and shallow as a puddle.

But we're comparing apples and oranges anyways.
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November 29th, 2020, 11:47
I would still argue that HZD is an RPG. But this isn't the really important point for me personally. For me the most important question is whether the overall game is fun and allows immersion into the game world and the character you play.

Even a pure adventure game with a great story and world is much more fun than a mediocre RPG regardless of how many RPG mechanics the latter may have.

While Fallout 4 has surely a bigger world and more options in it, I personally liked for example Elex much more, since I liked the world and the story much more. Of course this is all subjective. In this comparison I like HZD much more than Fallout 4 and a little bit less than Elex.

With regard to choices: I would have preferred by far if Elex would not have forced you to choose a faction. That was immersion breaking for me because I didn't like any of them and the need to choose a faction was implemented mechanically ( you can't advance the store over a certain point without joining a faction, but you do not need any faction resource or abilities to win the game).

So in fact the faction thing was one of the few bad things in Elex.

This only as an example that "counting" RPG properties of a games has no connection to the games' quality.

For me the way, how the real history of the world is found step for step by the protagonist is much better in HZD than in either Fallout 4 or Elex.

Short remark on saving: Normally I a very pissed off if a game doesn't allow save everywhere. In particular if you are forced to replay sequences again and again as punishment for small errors. I hated that in games like Max Payne 3 (in contrast to 1 or 2) or Mafia. In HZD this is not really a problem because save points (camp fires) are everywhere and the game also makes automatic saves in longer areas (e. g. in the dungeons).

Apropos dungeons: I like how in HZD every dungeon is either connected to advancement of the story or to development of the character's abilities. There are no random dungeons unconnected to the overall experience. That supports the feel of a coherent experience of world and story.
Last edited by bkrueger; November 29th, 2020 at 11:51. Reason: Typos
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November 29th, 2020, 16:44
It's also out on GOG now, since we've strayed from the topic horribly I enjoyed HZD enough to get a couple dozen hours out of it. I enjoy F4, which chose to offer modding, much much more. I don't mind disagreeing with folks. In fact, I don't mind disagreeing with every human on the planet. I'm still right
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November 29th, 2020, 17:11
Originally Posted by bkrueger View Post
I would still argue that HZD is an RPG. But this isn't the really important point for me personally.

This only as an example that "counting" RPG properties of a games has no connection to the games' quality.

Apropos dungeons: I like how in HZD every dungeon is either connected to advancement of the story or to development of the character's abilities. There are no random dungeons unconnected to the overall experience. That supports the feel of a coherent experience of world and story.
1. I agree. What a game is called isn't super relevant. A game does need several RPG elements for me to enjoy it, but HZD hit that mark fine.

2. Agree. I find the RPG elements offered by F4 to be vastly superior to anything in HZD. I'm not a console gamer and really hate the non-PC elements in HZD like no save anywhere, lack of weapon and armor choices, very few skills. Those of you who play other genres seem to accept the console rpgs with all these lacks.

We're very much opposites when it comes to open-world vs story. I hate a world that assumes the protagonist is the only thing that matters. I vastly prefer worlds that would live on and make sense if the protagonist didn't exist. HZD "fails" here in that this wasn't a goal of the game. I'm fine with that, but it is why I stopped after learning I could care less if Aloy dies horribly. I feel no attachment to her.

She has the personality of a robot and her father treated her like a dog. All he ever did was yell at her and then tell her to heel (follow!). I treat my animals much better than Rost treated Aloy.

Fallout 4 sucks in trying to make you care for Shaun. The family dynamic never worked for me. However, there was a whole world to explore that had nothing to do with Shaun and that isn't the case in HZD. This is just a matter of preference. I love games where the story is very loose and can be ignored for the most part. I absolutely love having tons of things to do that have zero to do with the main quest.

Final statement: "Allows mods" means a game is infinitely better and that a no mods allowed game cannot conceivably compete with it. If your game is mod-able, you win. Always.
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November 29th, 2020, 20:27
Originally Posted by crpgnut View Post
Final statement: "Allows mods" means a game is infinitely better and that a no mods allowed game cannot conceivably compete with it. If your game is mod-able, you win. Always.
Interesting! I don't care for mods since I want to play the game in the way the developers created it. I believe that a game should be a piece of art. I wouldn't buy a painting where have to correct the original colors in order to make it look good. If a game needs mods to become a good game this means that it wasn't a good game to begin with. (Obviously I am not talking about mods which allow you to create new and additional stories, like in NWN - that is great).

But of course I respect your point of view.
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November 29th, 2020, 22:45
Originally Posted by crpgnut View Post
I'm not a console gamer and really hate the non-PC elements in HZD like no save anywhere, lack of weapon and armor choices, very few skills. Those of you who play other genres seem to accept the console rpgs with all these lacks.
Eh? HZD has a ton of skills, and, unlike the perks in FO4, most of them are actually useful.

Not being able to save anywhere can be annoying sometimes, but I can't say it bothered me much. Seeking out a campfire when I was low on health and surrounded by enemies only added to the tension. Besides, the game has fast travel anyways, so it's not like you can't save immediately if you need to quit playing.
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November 30th, 2020, 01:33
If I don't like a game w/out mods it is very doubtful I will like it with mods. Instead mods enhance an already good game for me. But then unlike many modders my goal of modding isn't to change mechanics or game play - I do not like those kind of game overhauls and don't use them. I use mods primarily to improve visuals in all ways, then secondary I use them for immersion.

FO4, and Skyrim, are my two of my top games in the 30 or so years I have been playing computer based games. I got a 100+ hours in each of them before I modded them. Now mods extend the game play by changing the visuals, adding some new elements, etc.

I do disagree that FO4 has a set protagonist if compared to say AC, Tomb Rider, or Witcher. Those are very set protagonist. What is set in FO4 is more part of the characters past history. But you can be any gender, any race, design your character any way you want, give them whatever skills and focus you want, make their own personality, etc. You can't do that in games with a very set protagonist. Not to mention once you leave the vault you can pretty much ignore the main story if you want. I played the full story through once as is and enjoyed it. Since then I have "finished" the game (completed the main quest line so to speak) 8 times but in my own fashion with my own history for my character. Of course FO4 would have been much better if you had just been another random vault person who happened to escape. That would be ideal. I didn't like the whole married with a kid role thrust on me. I mean I enjoyed the game story but I don't want to be married with a kid

I like the perks in FO4 myself and find them very useful both for game play and to develop my character. But I suspect a lot of that comes down to how one plays the game as to how useful or important they are.

I would see a good game with mods as a piece of art that you want a better frame for. I might by a painting but want a nicer looking frame, and maybe a good glass protector over it.

But I don't really disagree that much as I do prefer to play a game the way it was made which is why I don't use overhaul mods (although I will use mods that add to existing game play like Frostfall in Skyrim or Nuclear Winter in FO4 … but I consider those immersion mods).

But I also agree with Nut because really if you have Game A which is good and Game B which is good … and Game A you can't mod but Game B you can, if you want, then clearly that makes Game B better, all other things being equal, because it gives you more options.

As for the topic at hand, HZD, I have zero interest in it. From what I saw and read, and asking my friends who played it, it seems more like an adventure game with a set protagonist. Worse I don't like her from what I saw on vids. I wouldn't call it an RPG myself but I have my own way of defining an RPG so its irrelevant to discuss it really. Bottom line is whether a game is fun to play, for me, and I know HZD would not be. In much the same way I know eating dog poop would be horrible even though I have never tried it
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