Skyrim Anyone else role-playing a good guy?

It's so freaking hard. Everywhere you look there's temptations to do shady stuff, like pickpocket this guy, steal from this guy, do the quests for the Daedric princes, Dark Brotherhood, etc.

I'm really limiting the type of quests I will do. I won't do anything "bad" for the most part. No thieves guild, no stealing, no killing unless necessary. No helping evildoers. No Daedric quests for the most part, because they usually involve some evil things (and this part REALLY sucks, because they often have the coolest items for completing their quests). I did manage to get the Sanguine Rose with my character though, that was sweet, and the quest wasn't really evil.

I'm not complaining though, it's fun to roleplay a good guy, and in subsequent playthroughs I will roleplay different characters who are more "evil". Hell, I may even have a change of heart in this playthrough, and start doing some shady business, just for kicks. We'll see. I was thinking of kicking it off by joining the thieves guild, but I just haven't gone through with it yet.

Anyone else roleplaying a good guy?

I always play a good guy!!

Yup, I am playing a good guy too. My next character will probably be ranger/thief sort of guy so he will get involved in shady dealings. But I don't think that even he will join DB though. Thief yes. Assassin? I don't think so…

Yep, it sucks. No taking on the thieves guild even though as soon as you get to the city where they are at, a woman is trying to do just that. There's no helping her as far as I can see so I'm joining. Maybe they have quests to screw them up from the inside or at least get them to stop preying on the poor. I doubt it, but oh well.

Two things bother me with factions. One is that I don't want to be the freaking guild leader/archmage/what-ever. It blows the immersion by a factor of ten when I leap frog past everyone that has been there for years and years to become the grand pumba. Just make me a full member of the guild. That's good enough for me and a little more realistic.

Second is that you can't take them on. I want to be against the Dark Brotherhood. I want to take apart the Thieves Guild, but other than killing everyone I don't think there is any way to do it. I'm not even sure killing everyone would work.

Well, if you play a good guy, there is way to get a quest to destroy the Dark Brotherhood. Don't know if Thieves Guild can be dealt with as well though.

I'm playing a mostly good guy, who just happens to have a weak spot when it comes to powerful magical artefacts (his main reason for coming to Skyrim to begin with). He won't do anything really evil to get his hands on them, so some of the daedric stuff's off limits, but can be a bit morally flexible where they're concerned. Other than that, he's no thief or assassin.

I think I'll play a selfish thiefy type next time so I can more fully explore the shady parts of the game.

My first character was an honorable fighter (lawful good in D&D terms). I generally had a hard time finding quests to do due to so many quest lines involving something shady, without being given the option to choose a good outcome.

I did one dishonest thing though:

zahratustra said:

Well, if you play a good guy, there is way to get a quest to destroy the Dark Brotherhood. Don't know if Thieves Guild can be dealt with as well though.

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Not that I know of. Also, you have to do something quite evil in order to start the "destroy the Dark Brotherhood" quest. I never found a way to trigger it without being evil at least.

skavenhorde said:

Second is that you can't take them on. I want to be against the Dark Brotherhood. I want to take apart the Thieves Guild, but other than killing everyone I don't think there is any way to do it. I'm not even sure killing everyone would work.

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You can take down the dark brotherhood, though you have to do the first quest in their quest line to get the password for there lair, its actually pretty well done, I could totally see a good guy do the first quest, then get draged in over his head and becoming a killer for hire out of fear for his life, or just saying hard no and having to take down the dark brotherhood before the come after him.

I pretty much always play the good guy and avoid many things. My current character refuses to use enchanting or conjuration as I tend to dislike the idea of enslaving other beings or stealing souls to make my dagger all shiney. I don't recharge magic items either. If I come across something already made I use it, but afterwards safely dispose of it.

Fact is I have never liked either of those skills in any TES game and have always avoided them. Just was never comfortable with stealing souls to power magical items.

Firestorm said:

I could totally see a good guy do the first quest,

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I don´t think there´s a "good" (even within moral parameters of the game) way to finish the quest.
That would be utilizing a non-lethal way to strip the person in question of the job, via a mini-quest or speech check(s).

Anyway, besides there not being all that much support for "good" guys in general, as I noted in the balance thread, in my opinion majority of the better quest content there is in the game is geared towards neutral-to-evil characters.

skavenhorde said:

I don't want to be the freaking guild leader/archmage/what-ever. It blows the immersion by a factor of ten when I leap frog past everyone that has been there for years and years to become the grand pumba. Just make me a full member of the guild. That's good enough for me and a little more realistic.

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Yeah, guilds in Skyrim largely suck, at least at being guilds.
The progression, or better said lack of it, is especially jarring in the cases of The College and Companions. It´s slightly better in the Dark Brotherhood´s case due to its story development, but the only guild that felt more-or-less "proper" to me was Thieves Guild.
Neither is good from an RPG perspective in my opinion, because each can be finished with any character.
Some skill requirements for advancement or quests that absolutely require some level of skills are sorely missing.

skavenhorde said:

I want to take apart the Thieves Guild, but other than killing everyone I don't think there is any way to do it. I'm not even sure killing everyone would work.

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Well, there certainly isn´t any quest to do that and killing everyone would not work, because TG´s characters, at least some of them, are "essential".

DeepO said:

Some skill requirements for advancement or quests that absolutely require some level of skills are sorely missing.

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People don't take kindly to being locked out of content, particularly in an open world game.

dteowner said:

People don't take kindly to being locked out of content, particularly in an open world game.

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God forbid that you should ever cut off a quest line because you kill someone or do something else. I am amazed that people aren't complaining that you can't join the assassins guild after you choose to destroy them.

I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or indifferent-- just observing the way things usually go down.

Regarding being a good guy playing any Elder Scrolls games…

This is VERY tough. Most of the quests and characters are evil and twsited. The world is full of psychopathic killers.

Knowing this ahead of time, I decided on my first playthrough to play a somewhat neutral thief, that helps people in need, but isn't ashamed of a little pilfering and backstabbing when needed.

dteowner said:

People don't take kindly to being locked out of content, particularly in an open world game.

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Yeah, well, that´s probably right to some degree, but do we know what degree that exactly is?
I mean, Fallout: New Vegas was a fairly successful title and contains quite a lot of locking out (and I don´t remember it being criticized for this particular aspect, more the opposite). Similarly, The Witcher 2, though it´s not an open world game.

Also, Skyrim features some locking out already.
Perks are limited and there´s no way to respec.
Stormcloaks and Imperials are mutually exclusive and I think the game has been quite universally praised for this feature.
There are at least two quests which can be obtained only when player has 90+ skill points in destruction or conjuration.

The thing is, as it is now, I think the lack of any requirements may actually undermine enjoyment for people who play specialists - once they realize that being able to get on top of a guild is totally disconnected from how hey developed their characters.

Personally I just don´t see how making character development playing a bit more significant role in finishing guild questlines would be a bad thing, even from the business perspective. People generally like when, in cRPGs, their character development is acknowledged and gives them some feeling of exclusivity, no? I´m sure they like it when it happens in combat scenarios, why should it be different when it comes to quests?
I think "people" would appreciate progression in the guilds being more tied with their characters´ progression. Not tightly tied perhaps, but some mild implementation might even boost their immersion and everyone likes immersion .

I´d be actually surprised if majority of "people" are satisfied in how the guilds were conceived in Skyrim anyway, guilds´ issues seem rather universally recognizable to me, though certainly not solely related to lack of skill requirements, they´re generally in the pacing, structuring and storytelling.


As a side note, there´s yet another type of locking out in Skyrim present and it´s a type which, for a change, I don´t like - rigid loot level scaling .
But that would be too much of off-topic for one post.

I completed the thieves guild quest line but not the city influence ones with all my thieving skills well under 50.

They should definitely have some sort of requirements or make it much harder. As it stands I've almost completed the city influence quests and will be leader of the thieves guild with thieving skills just above 50. So an average thief is able to become leader.

I tend to agree with you both, DeepO and sakichop, but I regularly see complaints about content locks. It's not as prevalent here (we generally have more maturity and fewer fanbois/haters) but hit some of the more commercial forums and you'll see.

That said, I'm not sure sakichop's logic holds water if we're giving Skyrim's guild quest structure a "reality check". Jimmy Hoffa didn't lead the Teamsters because he was the best truck driver. Bob King hasn't become the new UAW chairman because he can put a car together better than anyone else. There's a lot more to holding such a position than merely being the most skilled.

Maylander said:

Also, you have to do something quite evil in order to start the "destroy the Dark Brotherhood" quest. I never found a way to trigger it without being evil at least.

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I could try to take a leaf from "The Witcher" and try to argue "lesser evil" angle BUT I do think that Bathesda should have given you couple of other options rather than just a terminal one…

as much as skyrim may topple gothic 3 as my favourite open-world fantasy rpg morality choices in skyrim aren't all that great. sure they are better than prior games but i echo the sentiment that a huge swath of the game is simply a no go if you play a true "good" person. many of you seem to probably apply a sliding scale in this regard. what about all those solo npcs mages in the games exterior at shrines that simply are doing there on thing and warn you to stay away. same with certain bandit, forsworn, orc, etc camps outside. all of them will not attack you until you infringe on their space--in doing so are you somehow still "good" even though it was you who prokoked the violence as they weren't on a main road or trying to rob you? because of this games "slippery slope" effect, i've in many regards removed limits i've normally set in the past for the sake of exploring the vast plethora of interesting quests and locales. some daedric quests, i don't believe i did any in oblivion, give you the ability to make "good" or at least "neutral" choices that are really no different or perhaps better than normal quest tasks. as long as you have a conscience while playing the game and not going berserk i actually think its benificial to try the "darker" quests lines. to me ruling them out is the same mentality as people who ban books from schools on moral grounds.

by the way if someone ever wants to make me an rpg based in the imagination of mark twain i'd love you forever.

The morality in cRPGs is and always has been totally silly. Skyrim isn't any worse or better than the rest. At least it doesn't have 3 choices for every question:
1) The paladin-boy-scout-dalai-lama-goody-goody answer
2) The one no one ever picks
3) The raging-insane-greedy-nazi-commie-taliban response

That was one thing I kind of liked about ME and ME2. You are the hero, villains need not apply, but can decide whether to be a renegade or by-the-book guy (or somewhere in between). OK, they didn't handle that well in many places but the idea was good.