Fallout 4 - Uncut Release in Germany @ PC Gamer

Henriquejr spotted this important information for German gamers:

Fallout 4 will be uncensored in Germany

Here's a spot of good news for German Fallout fans who like their gore as nature intended: Your edition of Fallout 4 will be entirely uncut and uncensored at release. The news comes from German site PC Games, which revealed, "Fallout 4 erscheint uncut in Deutschland," complete with excited exclamation mark.

You probably get the point, but here's the Google Translate breakdown, with a few additional details, just in case: "Fallout 4 will appear uncut in Germany!" it says. "As the manufacturer Bethesda tells the apocalyptic RPG appear uncut in Germany. This gives German players with the USK offshoot an identical version in comparison to the versions for the British or American market." The site also provided a link to an image on the Fallout 4 Facebook page of the box, with a "USK 18" sticker [USK, the Unterhaltungssoftware Selbstkontrolle, is the German equivalent of the ESRB] and a "100% Uncut" stamp. [...]

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More information.

Does this mean that all version will be "dumped down" to match German sensibilities?

lostforever said:

Does this mean that all version will be "dumped down" to match German sensibilities?

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LOL Lostforever, we non-Germans (and even the Germans) hope not. They wouldn't dare. Or would they ?

AFAIK, the German sillies are against blood and guts in their games, right? From what I've seen of Fallout 4 - we won't be missing out in that way.

All Fallouts except the New Vegas Ultimate Edition were cut.

In the old days getting games through the USK and BPjM was a difficult process. When Bethesda took over the franchise, they either decided not to push the system to its limit or simply didn't understand what the German authorities were aiming for. It seems now, with their new German office and studio, they have enough local know-how to handle the system as it should be. Generally speaking RPGs have no problems with the USK because killing is not the priority.

Other companies were faster. CDPR only needed one try to understand this. Witcher 1 was ruined by Atari because they wanted to play it safe, misunderstanding that there was no risk at all for such a game.

henriquejr said:

LOL Lostforever, we non-Germans (and even the Germans) hope not. They wouldn't dare. Or would they ?

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DArtagnan said:

AFAIK, the German sillies are against blood and guts in their games, right? From what I've seen of Fallout 4 - we won't be missing out in that way.

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Based on UK TV/news paper depiction of Germans, they are very liberated and 50% of them are nudist so they won't have problems with boobs unlike our america friends.

Again based on UK TV/news paper, Germans are macho so I was very surprised to hear that they ban blood and gut…

All in all, I was expecting all Germans to be half nude and macho but it seems UK TV has lied to me…

I think they're still struggling with WW2-guilt and are probably confusing blood in games with some kind of endorsement of war.

Common enough in terms of human stupidity.

Well presumably there will be a low gore option for those who aren't titillated by flying blood and viscera. You eff-ed up sickos…

Here is an intresting news,

Like any big (or small) game nowadays it was always inevitable that Fallout 4 would have its fair share of DLC, but Bethesda are promising you can get all the content ever released for just $30.

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http://metro.co.uk/2015/09/09/fallout-4-season-pass-costs-30-for-all-dlc-5383941/

DArtagnan said:

AFAIK, the German sillies are against blood and guts in their games, right? From what I've seen of Fallout 4 - we won't be missing out in that way.

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I think it's much sillier the way my fellow Americans get all bent out of shape if there's nudity in a game, but have no problem with body parts exploding into a spray of blood and guts. In fact, it's not just silly, it's rather sick. Then again, I enjoy both, although I prefer to view a naked woman with a nice hourglass shape.

Necrosis said:

I think it's much sillier the way my fellow Americans get all bent out of shape if there's nudity in a game, but have no problem with body parts exploding into a spray of blood and guts. In fact, it's not just silly, it's rather sick. Then again, I enjoy both, although I prefer to view a naked woman with a nice hourglass shape.

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I think they're equally stupid in terms of trying to make reality go away by hiding from it.

But I agree that endorsing violence is more silly than endorsing nakedness, I just don't think that including either in a game or a movie necessarily represents endorsement.

Both can best be dealt with by first acknowledging their existence.

Again, for ze Germans: There is a recent podcast on Insert Moin about the work of USK
http://insertmoin.de/im1381-le-brunch-was-macht-eigentlich-die-usk/

I'm guessing this is a holdover from the days when video games were very much perceived by the older generation as children's entertainment. Now that games are a part of many adults' lives, alongside books, films, and other media, I don't really see how this sort of censorship is acceptable.

It's not really censorship. And it's affecting movies as well.

Some movies/games are not "good" for children. I think in so far most people agree.
The question is just what is not good for children and how to protect them against it.

Yes, I agree with that - I definitely think that children should be protected from some material until they are mature enough to deal with. But, if I understand it correctly, they are even refusing grant an 18+ certificates to more violent games?

They are working a little different there.
The USK is basically just testing the game and giving recommendations.
For example they test a game and say it's stuited for players age 16, or 18. After that the game needs to carry the USK seal with that age requirement. And vendors must make sure that children below that age cannot buy it.
If it is not tested or if it is even higher than the threshold of 18 it simply receives no "age clearance"

The BPjM however puts games on an index. If the game is on the index it can still be sold, but it must not be advertised. And it must not be placed visible in the store.
The BPjM does not check any game which has an age clearance by the USK.


So lets say you make a bloody game. Normally you send this game to the USK, then get the seal for 16 or 18, and then you sell the game.

Let's assume you do not send it to the USK. You can still sell it just fine. But the moment the BPjM shows up and puts it on the index it cannot be advertised or displayed anymore.
This also means that shops (something equal to Walmart or so) will just not buy any games which do not have a Seal by USK. Let's say that they did buy 20000 copies of your game, because they think they can sell it. And around release the BPjM shows up and puts the game on the index. Now the shop can still sell them…but without advertising and displaying them, they would probably only sell 1000 of these copies.
So the shops would not take the risk to buy a game without a seal of the USK.

Exactly the same could happen if you have a new tetris game. You could just distribute it. But without an USK seal, it might be hard to find shops which want to buy these.

So developers/publishers want to get the USK 16/18 seal. Because without it, the market for the game shrinks drastically. It's still not censored in any way.
But the game developers partially take drastical measures just to be on the safe side. So they already send a cut version to the USK and get their Seal.
They could have sent the uncut version. It might have resulted in receiving no seal, and they would have needed to make adjustments. But maybe they didn't want to spend that time/risk and so they cut it as preventative measure.

I see - thanks for the details.

I would still say, then, that the BjPM is acting as a censor in practical terms. That is to say, they give a commercial kiss of death to anything that is not approved at a certain level, which exerts overwhelming pressure on the creators to change or remove elements of their work.

Or these creators could just work together with the USK. As they do now apparently.

But surely working with the USK is essentially sitting down and discussing what will and won't be allowed within the commercially feasible ratings. Doesn't that amount to same thing?

I think the guidelines area already clear for everyone (meaning publishers).
But the USK doesn't just go with a checklist. Like they don't just put an 16 stamp on it just because there is some blood.
They are giving the game to Testers who have to have played the whole game (or the big majority, partially also achieved via cheats / advanced savegames by the developer). This tester then does a presentation for some kind of council. And they essentially decide about the rating according to multiple factors.
So two games with a similar gore level might get a different rating dependent on the context of the game. And in the end it has to be humans who make the decision. And there is never a 100% certainty if humans are involved.

So let's say that you have a game which is brutal and realistic. You send it to the USK. In the once scenario they might say that you wont get a seal because of this and that reason. So you could decide if you make according changes to get the rating. In the other they would just give you the 18+ seal.

Apparently the USK was also much stricter in the past though.

But even so, there were games like Die by the Sword:
http://www.amazon.de/Edel-Die-by-the-Sword/dp/B000JUB9H4

You could cut off the enemies arms, legs, head, lots of blood.

This game became a USK 18 seal. So it could be sold. And it even received a German localization (which was great).

Lot sof developers in the past just must have thought "meh…why bother" and just didn't sell the game on the german market and saved the money for the localization.