DA2 Dragon Age 2 Play thread

Benedict said:

Would you really prefer them to go back to pure text so that they can build in an old style rpg with different speech options?

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If that's what it takes for them to expand dialogue options, then I say yes. I've yet to play a game that was made great due to voice acting.

I don't think pure text is necessary though. They could use a combination.

JDR13 said:

If that's what it takes for them to expand dialogue options, then I say yes. I've yet to play a game that was made great due to voice acting.

I don't think pure text is necessary though. They could use a combination.

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Mass Effect would certainly suffer from no voice acting... it's a very cinematic game though, more interactive movie than RPG. The problem with DA2 is it tries to go that same route, if you ask me.

Benedict said:

I'm quite glad of the removed skills . . . I never remembered to brew up enough to make alchemy or poisons worthwhile skills, and I always take the speech options in every game I play because otherwise I feel like I'm missing out on content (or might be missing out on content).

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I can see where you're coming from in terms of the removed skills, and in my argument about skills I made the point that they weren't implemented very well to begin with. However, let me ask you this: Are you happy with the skills being gutted entirely, or would you have rather had the skills improved in order to make them function better within the game? Both options are valid depending on your perspective, but I would personally much rather go with the second option; removing gameplay elements and failing to replace them with something worthwhile in return does not seem like a valid "improvement" to me.

Dasale said:

I do agree that a more traditional system of crafting has some meaning, not one like in DAO but in some other older game, ie you collect stuff and during exploration time only you can use some alchemy skill to craft some potions.

But I feel a little weird that you can enjoy and support only one choice. It makes full sense for a RPG centered around a town to not have a hero with plenty skills and also alchemy, and then only discover sources for resources and order potions from some merchant.

There was in town a merchant for ordering crafted potions and one for rune crafting. Just don't use those put at home if it's such a trouble for you. For sure I do agree they put that at home just for practical reason and it is broken the good overall realism they setup well through this new system. But well it's also a detail you can easily ignore if you like roleplay a bit to improve immersion. I definitely don't roleplay much in RPG but I did it for this point, well almost always.

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I can enjoy different styles of crafting, every rpg has there own style. My problem is this isn't crafting. I mean if you really look at it you are just buying potions the same as you would from a merchant. The resource finding was just added so they could say hey we still have crafting. You find the resource thru doing other quests your never really searching for them in order to use them for crafting. I assume they took this approach as a result of the shortened dev cycle, no time to implement real crafting.

I don't really care about realism in my rpg's we are talking monster and dragons and stuff. I do just ignore it I use my house as a shop to buy potions, but never once have I felt like i've crafted anything in da2. Have you?

I think you didn't quote a point, in this RPG your hero isn't skilled in plenty area, and he has no crafting skill and never craft, I'm surprised you didn't noticed it.

In shop you'll find most potions in a very limited stock. Finding resources allow potions provider produce more and enough for your need. But you never craft any, you jut order them or buy some stock (to explain the immediate availability). For example in BG there's no crafting nor crafting skill but the DA2 craft system with some adaptation would work rather well.

Still the DA2 crafting system has good points despite the hero doesn't craft himself, well for me at least. But yes some other crafting system are more detailed and are with heroes with crafting skills. But DAO system is a bad example, for me it is improved in DA2.

But in general yes DA2 designers forgot too much little details that could seem tedious when look at them separately but a whole set can contribute setup a sort of mood. For example you should not have at house the ordering, a stock management system could be used and even possibly allow pre ordering, lol. Another example is the interface is better organized and very clear but so cold that it probably destroy a little bit the global mood.

DoctorNarrative said:

Mass Effect would certainly suffer from no voice acting… it's a very cinematic game though, more interactive movie than RPG. The problem with DA2 is it tries to go that same route, if you ask me.

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Mass Effect type games aren't exactly what comes to mind when thinking about great dialogue anyways. Like you said, they're not much of an RPG experience.

Dasale said:

I think you didn't quote a point, in this RPG your hero isn't skilled in plenty area, and he has no crafting skill and never craft, I'm surprised you didn't noticed it.

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Not only did I notice it, that's been my point all along you don't craft anything. Having merchants craft things, to me isn't crafting. By that logic you could say that any game with merchants has crafting. Then after I play and say there was no crafting. They say yes there was the merchants craft it then you buy it. That's not crafting and having to click on a few random plants then being able to buy the stuff is not crafting. Especially when you can already buy the stuff from other merchants without getting the plants.

I'm glad that this system is enough for you. You strike me as they type of person that can enjoy a game for what it is rather than lament it for what it's not. I admire that actually. I wish I could do that but I can't I always think of how it could be made better. especially in a game that was rushed and took so many shortcuts. This approach is not very good for my entertainment life but has served me quite well in my professional life.

There's a crafting system in DA2 and yes the hero don't craft himself and I appreciated the system and didn't care not craft by myself. But yes that's just me.

I'm not that sort of player that request "perfection" nor have the requirement of playing one type of game plus I'm interested to play new approach. I can't say I like anything, but I enjoyed good points of games like Eschalon Book 1, Venetica, I appreciate the little bit of Two World 2 I played, I appreciated some points of Oblivion like some great quests but in general didn't enjoyed that much the game, I enjoyed Temple of Elemental Evil despite all the flaws and what's certainly rushed elements too.

So I appreciated a lot DA2, and in fact, if a comparison is possible, more than those I quote above, and yeah despite the numerous rushed elements. And funnily it's very hard to succeed make me rush something, that I don't want rush myself.

You seem imply I'm a sort of blind fan of DA2, well then let me see you as a player glued in certitude and unable to enjoy different approaches.

EDIT:
Forgot it but I didn't quoted BG1 for nothing, but because it hadn't a craft system, do that make it a crap or even a less good game? I don't think so. Is adding the DA2 crafting system would be a plus? I think so with some adaptation to adapt it to BG1. Is DA2 crafting system really a crap and boring? No. Is not having a standard craft system in a RPG is a flaw? No, check ton of older RPG.

I think that at base craft system become very popular for MMORPG. That was an easy way to keep in players through collecting and crafting. The resulting gameplay was tedious if not very boring but then designers improved it or came back to older craft system design and yes it can be fun.

Having to buy them at your house in advance of an expedition somewhere is better to me. You have to weigh the benefits and risks of spending the money on them, and if you run low in a dungeon you'll be in trouble.

But again, for the most part I dislike crafting in RPGs. I thought the Witcher did it best having to meditate, and you didn't run around with 25 potions all the time. Just being able to instantly "whip up" potions that can heal you is stretching my suspension of disbelief too much.

Good point about how crafting nowadays is MMORPG-like. It's a stupid time sink that puts virtual flower-picking in games for the sake of having it. Go back to BG style where potions need to be purchased. They should be harder to come by also, or at least should be expensive, or require some kind of sacrifice.

Dasale said:

There's a crafting system in DA2 and yes the hero don't craft himself and I appreciated the system and didn't care not craft by myself. But yes that's just me.

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No there's not. Its resource gathering at best. You don't even bring the components to anyone or have a quest to gather them. You only click on them because they are highlighted.

Dasale said:

I'm not that sort of player that request "perfection" nor have the requirement of playing one type of game plus I'm interested to play new approach. I can't say I like anything, but I enjoyed good points of games like Eschalon Book 1, Venetica, I appreciate the little bit of Two World 2 I played, I appreciated some points of Oblivion like some great quests but in general didn't enjoyed that much the game, I enjoyed Temple of Elemental Evil despite all the flaws and what's certainly rushed elements too.

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I don't need perfection it's not possible. I do however believe that if developers want me to purchase their games they have an obligation to produce the best product they can. It's widely known that this game was rushed to capitalize off of the success of dao.

I too am able to enjoy many different kind of games. Toee is one of my favorites, only because of the combat system. I love the gothics for wide open exploration. I enjoyed fear for its enemy ai, dnd crpg's for the rule set, I couldn't even tell you the story for just cause 2 but I love to fire it up and blow things up and grapple people to things, and many others. I can overlook flaws, while still acknowledging that they exist if the game does something else really well. Da2 in my mind does not.

Dasale said:

So I appreciated a lot DA2, and in fact, if a comparison is possible, more than those I quote above, and yeah despite the numerous rushed elements. And funnily it's very hard to succeed make me rush something, that I don't want rush myself.

You seem imply I'm a sort of blind fan of DA2, well then let me see you as a player glued in certitude and unable to enjoy different approaches.

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see above. I enjoy many different types of games.

Dasale said:

EDIT:
Forgot it but I didn't quoted BG1 for nothing, but because it hadn't a craft system, do that make it a crap or even a less good game? I don't think so. Is adding the DA2 crafting system would be a plus? I think so with some adaptation to adapt it to BG1. Is DA2 crafting system really a crap and boring? No. Is not having a standard craft system in a RPG is a flaw? No, check ton of older RPG.

I think that at base craft system become very popular for MMORPG. That was an easy way to keep in players through collecting and crafting. The resulting gameplay was tedious if not very boring but then designers improved it or came back to older craft system design and yes it can be fun.

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I believe i said it in an earlier post but if not I will say it now. Rpg's do not have to have a crafting system. Baulders gate and Icewind dale series are 2 of my favorites, still play them. Don't play mmo's so not sure about that.

Da2 crating system is not crap or boring it's non-existent.

Ovenall said:

Having to buy them at your house in advance of an expedition somewhere is better to me. You have to weigh the benefits and risks of spending the money on them, and if you run low in a dungeon you'll be in trouble.

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Maybe, but in da2 you get so much gold you can buy as many as you want anyway. Especially since you don't have to buy any equipment for companions.

Ovenall said:

But again, for the most part I dislike crafting in RPGs. I thought the Witcher did it best having to meditate, and you didn't run around with 25 potions all the time. Just being able to instantly "whip up" potions that can heal you is stretching my suspension of disbelief too much.

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You don't have to whip up 25 potions at a time. I don't like spamming potions either thats why I limited my potions to 7 each. So if i did run out in a longer dungeon it was nice that there was a chance i would find some components to replenish my supply. That's what I like about crafting it's optional and you can use it as you see fit. Don't want to carry 100 potions then don't.

As far as not being believable read my earlier post, making "potions" (medicines) with a mortar and pestle in not make believe. I see this no harder to believe than monsters and magic.

Ovenall said:

Good point about how crafting nowadays is MMORPG-like. It's a stupid time sink that puts virtual flower-picking in games for the sake of having it. Go back to BG style where potions need to be purchased. They should be harder to come by also, or at least should be expensive, or require some kind of sacrifice.

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This seems silly you don't like it so they should get rid of it. I didn't like diablo 1 or 2 so they should cancel the 3rd one. That's just silly.

I'm sure crafting and virtual flower-picking will be in the next 800 RPGs that come on the market.

Crafting them on the road (really, using a mortar and pestle and crushing up some weeds with — water? — this makes a healing potion? And you need skill points to do this??) is silly and ordering a near infinite supply is silly. But it's not a big deal to me. I just don't understand the appeal of crafting. Just like I don't understand the appeal of having to eat and drink in a game. Why not add a toilet mod that forces realistic bathroom breaks... Not enough skill points in Toilet will cause the smell to attract monsters. Realism!

Back to DA2, I still think it's a good game. I'm around 30 hours in, maybe a couple hours past the Deep Roads expedition.

Well ok for me there's a craft system in DA2 but the hero doesn't craft himself.

If you want name it collecting, then go on, but following your logic, the hero collect nothing so DA2 has no collecting system, so I don't see your logic.

Dasale: I think I'm mostly agreeing with you.

You have to find the resources. You don't have to collect quantities of them, but you do have to pick the virtual flowers to have access to the various potions.

Also- I really don't like the Rune system in DA:O or DA2. Again, the BG old school approach is better to me. A magic item is magic in a certain way, period. I get no thrill out of tweaking my items back and forth with different runes. I also don't like that there's so many junk items with "+3% fire damage" or "+6 defense." That whole system is ripped off from MMORPGs and I don't like it.

But I like DA2 overall! Just being picky here.

Neither one of you really like crafting, so it's no surprise that you don't mind if it's nerfed or eliminated all together. I used to be much like ovenall, didn't like crafting saw it as an unnecessary diversion but over the years I have learned to like it and use it now as a game play mechanic.

I don't think da2 is a bad game because of the lack of crafting. I don't even think it's a bad game it's average. I agree though im not a fan of the runes either. It takes away the fun of finding cool magical weapons i think.

Ovenall- still can't understand why you have a problem with the mortar and pestle.
Before there were big pharmaceutical companies that is exactly how medicines were made. Look it up (did you go back and read my earlier post). As far as healing potions there is no such thing obviously so i'm not sure why you can believe in healing potions if they are made by merchants but not buy the character themselves. I already agreed with you about spamming potions so not sure why you brought that up again. i don't play any MMO's but i'm guessing you really dislike them.

I played WoW a little for a couple years, but I was never hardcore into it. So I don't necessarily hate MMOs.

Crafting in MMOs (and to a lesser extent, in RPGs) is a way of keeping goals for people, hoops to jump through, a progression to make —- time to sink. In the end you have a potion, or a pair of magic pants or whatever. The process just doesn't interest me much. I'll do it if a game I really like requires it… but I think they "require" it largely because it's a trend, and it's a familiar thing for players to do. "Immersion!"

The "medecines" you refer to that were weeds crushed in a mortar and pestle with water were largely useless. I get that there's "magic" involved in an RPG, but the idea of being able to create five potions in a couple minutes — that can heal sword wounds — while in the middle of a dungeon filled with things trying to kill you is simply silly. It waters down the importance or power of magic too much. Hell, it takes more time to change a tire than it does to create potions. I see that you disagree with me and that's fine. The truth is that in the real world even the strongest man on earth would be crippled and likely die from even a medium sized sword wound, so it's all about stretching your belief. But whatever. The crowd who enjoy putting numbers into crafting "skill" will be picking flowers and making insta-heal potions out of their backpacks for many years to come.

I wonder if there is a bathroom mod out there somewhere?

Ovenall said:

Having to buy them at your house in advance of an expedition somewhere is better to me. You have to weigh the benefits and risks of spending the money on them, and if you run low in a dungeon you'll be in trouble.

But again, for the most part I dislike crafting in RPGs. I thought the Witcher did it best having to meditate, and you didn't run around with 25 potions all the time. Just being able to instantly "whip up" potions that can heal you is stretching my suspension of disbelief too much.

Good point about how crafting nowadays is MMORPG-like. It's a stupid time sink that puts virtual flower-picking in games for the sake of having it. Go back to BG style where potions need to be purchased. They should be harder to come by also, or at least should be expensive, or require some kind of sacrifice.

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Ovenall said:

I played WoW a little for a couple years, but I was never hardcore into it. So I don't necessarily hate MMOs.

Crafting in MMOs (and to a lesser extent, in RPGs) is a way of keeping goals for people, hoops to jump through, a progression to make —- time to sink. In the end you have a potion, or a pair of magic pants or whatever. The process just doesn't interest me much. I'll do it if a game I really like requires it… but I think they "require" it largely because it's a trend, and it's a familiar thing for players to do. "Immersion!"

The "medecines" you refer to that were weeds crushed in a mortar and pestle with water were largely useless. I get that there's "magic" involved in an RPG, but the idea of being able to create five potions in a couple minutes — that can heal sword wounds — while in the middle of a dungeon filled with things trying to kill you is simply silly. It waters down the importance or power of magic too much. Hell, it takes more time to change a tire than it does to create potions. I see that you disagree with me and that's fine. The truth is that in the real world even the strongest man on earth would be crippled and likely die from even a medium sized sword wound, so it's all about stretching your belief. But whatever. The crowd who enjoy putting numbers into crafting "skill" will be picking flowers and making insta-heal potions out of their backpacks for many years to come.

I wonder if there is a bathroom mod out there somewhere?

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And potion healing is different than magic healing how they are both unbelievable and instant.

As far as this "picking flowers " thing you keep referring to a quick google will show that 70% of all medicines are from mother nature. ( plants, molds, bark etc.)." Rosy periwinkle in Madagascar. Two drugs derived from rosy periwinkle are used for treating Hodgkin's lymphoma and childhood leukemia" (rose perwinkle sounds much like an herb you'd fin in the witcher.)

"Taxol came from the bark of the Pacific Yew tree. The USDA in a random collection in 1962 did the first collections in Washington State," Cragg said in a 2004 statement. "After decades, this produced one of the best anticancer drugs available." (just another of millions of plants with healing properties.)

No these medicines were not made from a mortar and pestle but the fact they are made from plants make crafting a much more believable process than magic healing.

At the end of the day you just don't like crafting which is fine. But in a game with magic, monsters, elves, dwarfs, instant healing spell and fantastic lands I would think crafting would be one of the more believable things, but that's just me.

Again -- Being able to craft or create potions would be fine by me if it required some kind of sacrifice: Having to go to a laboratory and spend time or lots of money, etc. Just whipping them up out of a backpack in a dungeon in practically no time is the silly part which cheapens the idea of magic.

Heal spells are limited by cool down and available mana, or in older BG type games you had a limited amount you could memorize. Creating insta heal potions in zero time while in a dungeon is silly to me.

We can agree to disagree. The whole issue is silly. These are fantasy games and I'll leave it at that.

Ovenall said:

Again — Being able to craft or create potions would be fine by me if it required some kind of sacrifice: Having to go to a laboratory and spend time or lots of money, etc. Just whipping them up out of a backpack in a dungeon in practically no time is the silly part which cheapens the idea of magic.

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I do agree that there should be limitations or the game gets unbalanced.That is why I impose limits on crafting when I play. It just works for me.

Ovenall said:

Heal spells are limited by cool down and available mana, or in older BG type games you had a limited amount you could memorize. Creating insta heal potions in zero time while in a dungeon is silly to me.

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Good point, again spamming potions is not something I support.

Ovenall said:

We can agree to disagree. The whole issue is silly. These are fantasy games and I'll leave it at that.

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Yes we can agree to disagree and this is a silly issue but I do enjoy a good debate and hearing other peoples view points.

I like this toilet mod idea!! Think of the possibilities of laying traps to attract monsters, etc. If they step in a mess, that could also cause the monsters to stop and clean their feet rather than attack you. Attack of Opportunity anyone??!!