Anthem... makes me sad.

Does this mean there's hope for M&M XI ?!?!?

Drithius said:

Does this mean there's hope for M&M XI ?!?!?

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I'd like to yes but probably not.

As M&M XI wouldn't sell as much as an Assassin Creed RPG.

They cannot switch places, as they both suck, and not in good ways. Although Bioware might be a little worse....nah, they are both gawdawful.

Ubisoft making RPGs is pretty exciting. Their open worlds are so detailed and intricate, I always used to think to myself how good they would be with NPCs and dialogue.

Silver said:

We still have CD Projekt RED and Ubisoft aren't too bad and headed towards making more RPGish things. I was just talking about EA.

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W-ell, if Cyberpunk turns out very $ succesfull, this could change a few things. Immersive Sims've never had a big commercial hit, to give them more presence on the market.
I wouldn't expect Rockstar/Ubi or even Bethesda to start doing exactly the same, but we could start seeing some of the same elements in their games.

I find "immersive sim" to be a confused term, that means different things to different people. What is it about Cyberpunk that makes it an immersive sim, that is fundamentally different to the hugely successful TES and Fallout games?

Ripper said:

I find "immersive sim" to be a confused term, that means different things to different people. What is it about Cyberpunk that makes it an immersive sim, that is fundamentally different to the hugely successful TES and Fallout games?

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More simulated complexity that leads to more emergent play. The feeling is among the big boys that the more complexity that is employed the less approachable the game is. That is wrong headed to me, complexity doesn't need to mean complex for the player.

See the trend line for TES and Fallout towards simplicity and imagine it going the other way instead.

Couchpotato said:

If you asked me ten years ago that BioWare would someday be irrelevant in the market, and that Ubisoft would start making RPGs, I would of called you crazy.

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I bet there was no person on the planet who thought differently.

Couchpotato said:

I'd like to yes but probably not.

As M&M XI wouldn't sell as much as an Assassin Creed RPG.

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Actually it wouldn't surprise me we get MM11. It's development wouldn't be expensive as plenty of resources already exist within HoMM6. Cheap to develop product doesn't have to earn billions, it just needs to bring some profit. There is no way MM11 wouldn't wouldn't be profitable.

Bioware was lost the moment its founders abandoned the ship. I don't have much hope for them anymore.

Dragonfly said:

Bioware was lost the moment its founders abandoned the ship. I don't have much hope for them anymore.

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I disagree, only in that I saw enough from ME: Andromeda and DA: Inquisition to believe they can still make decent games-- when the project doesn't make a left turn 2/3rds through production (apparently the case with ME:A).

They wanted to cash in on the superhero/huge monster slaying co-op trend that we're seeing right now, as cliche as it's become… I'm hoping they'll get back to whatever roots are left after Anthem.

Ripper said:

I find "immersive sim" to be a confused term, that means different things to different people. What is it about Cyberpunk that makes it an immersive sim, that is fundamentally different to the hugely successful TES and Fallout games?

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It's basically, if you can think about it, you can do it, approach.

While Bethesda's games have a few elements and permanency in the world, there is very limited impact of player's actions on environment...no destructible objects, you cannot set something on fire, plus most dungeons levels are more linear/constricted, kill everything in winding tunnel and then trail back.

It's not a black/white thing, but in recent years BOTW was the best example.

If you had even a shred of faith/hope in Bioware after the fiascos that were Dragon Age the second and Mass junk the third, well, you are certainly made of far sterner stuff than I.

joxer said:

IActually it wouldn't surprise me we get MM11. It's development wouldn't be expensive as plenty of resources already exist within HoMM6. Cheap to develop product doesn't have to earn billions, it just needs to bring some profit. There is no way MM11 wouldn't wouldn't be profitable.

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Joxer they did publish a few Might & Magic games, but the sales weren't enough to fund more. M&M games are now a side project with only a few online and mobile spin-offs.

ChaosTheory said:

I disagree, only in that I saw enough from ME: Andromeda and DA: Inquisition to believe they can still make decent games-- when the project doesn't make a left turn 2/3rds through production (apparently the case with ME:A).

They wanted to cash in on the superhero/huge monster slaying co-op trend that we're seeing right now, as cliche as it's become… I'm hoping they'll get back to whatever roots are left after Anthem.

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Yes I hope so also but we wont know for many years from now as Anthem is the main focus for now. As Dragon Age 4 has a very small team in pre-production.

I'll be the odd one on this forum here and say I even liked ME:A despite it flaws, and the only thing that pissed me of was EA cutting funding for the promised expansions.

Now we have an incomplete game that will never get finished.

Signs of Bioware fall were going on first with BG2 and their sudden open love of Diablo over traditional CRPG's. They started adding elements of it there which were very visible in the Throne of Bhaal expansion.

NWN was an action RPG. This was followed by the fully 3d Jade Empire which signalled the start to go after a larger market instead of recreating the games of their youth.

Bioware, to me, officially ends when they publically anounced their strategy on game design was to be focus group base. As soon as they saw the statistics on SP vs MP and the lack of DM Client use on NWN, they completely lost their vision.

Their sellout to EA, the abandonment of their 2m strong original forums for a "social one" and their sudden commitment to forcing social causes on their players were all just signs of the rot within which only finally became internally acknowledged after the failure of SWTOR.

"The rot within", that is a strongly accurate term for what happened to Bioware. Well said indeed!

Spot on analysis Lucky Day.

I have to disagree with him (mostly). My opinion is different.

I loved BG2, replayed it many times, was involved in bugfix pack creation. And I never bought Throne of Bhaal. It's not a game, it's an expansion. Didn't think it was worth buying. But it's still not a game. So it should, IMO, not be used as a pointer on games.
On later (cutout) DLC business, sure, use it as an example, just not on games.

NWN was and still is, a plain garbage that should have been panned both by critics and audience. Maybe in moment of my death I finally understand why everyone execpt me adores it, but don't put much hopes in that.

Jade Empire is typical console garbage when it comes to gameplay. Give mushrooms to your blind(folded) friend to operate randomly, you just sit back and enjoy the story as he can't possibly lose. Blaming Bioware for making a perfect game for console audience is, sorry, wrong address. They made exactly what the targetted audience wanted. No skill required to finish a game.

SW:TOR is not a failure. Unlike many other MMOs that came out back then, is still alive. Sure, it's a disappointment to all of us who wanted Kotor3, but it was selling like a cure.

But "the rot within"? That's something I have to agree with.

I have to admit, I kind of enjoyed Jade Empire when I played it a few years back. Will I ever replay it......no. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't have fun most of the time I was playing, and I was really looking forward to how it would all end.

If we do get another Might and Magic game, I sure hope it is available outside of the Ubijunk platform.

Honestly, if a M&M XI was made that was as much fun as M&M Legacy, I wouldn't care whether it required UPlay; MMX is still the only game to make me install Uplay -albet temporarily.

The sheer dearth of quality, turn-based blobber games is depressing (and I don't really like Grimrock's square-dancing antics whatsoever). Looking forward to the new Bard's Tale.

Back on topic: Bioware, EA bad - boo hiss boo!