Battlestar Galactica - final season

I have very mixed feelings about the finale too.
Wish they would've left all that angels/spiritual/visions/prophecy/supernatural/ghosts/dreams -crap out. This show could've been so much more. Still, it was one of the best ones out there, especially during the first couple of seasons, which is kinda sad.. because there's so much useless "scifi" out there.

Well.. luckily the recent Sarah Connor Chronicles episodes seem to have begun picking up the pace of the first season.
 
Battlestar: Galactica reminded me a lot of The Sword of Truth series. Sometimes the drama was so intense I felt like punching in peoples faces for all their utter emotional stupidity. And I'm a very calm person. It dragged you in and didn't let go.

For some reason I thought the series ended in the middle of the season, before the break after episode 10 or so. It hadn't answered a lot of questions at that point, but it was still kinda nice and somewhat open-ended. So the real ending is like an alternate ending for me, which is nice too. ;)

As for the circularity -
"The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again."
 
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I just finished the last episode and have to say I hated it. Dumbest ending in the history of dumb endings. I didn't mind the spiritual aspect, it added a little mystery, but my god what were they thinking with the rest of it???

First, Boomer. Words alone cannot express the disgust I have for the writers. They needed a traitor so hey let's make it so that all Cylons are forgiven for what they did "except boomer!!" Oh yea then let's make it so she betrays everyone, for no reason at all (I'm sorry their flimsy excuse of a reason for Boomer betraying everyone over and over again is just lame)

Second, the ending. Everything was ok for me except for boomer and the ending. I thought the last fight of Galacica was pretty cool, I liked how they finally answered the question with the visions. Cara saving everyone by jumping Galactica using the notes of the song was an interesting twist. When "John" #1 said "Frak" and blew his brains out is when I knew the rest was going to be horrible. What was his reason for doing that? I got the feeling from this character that he would die fighting than do that. Why not just have him get killed in the crossfire? Did they seriously think that by having him commit suicide that it would be a better twist?

So they go through hell and highwater to find a home. They find it and in the process humans and cylons are for the first time living together and helping each other and everything is looking like they could actually live in peace with one another. Now what do they do when they get there "OH LETS BECOME TRIBAL AGAIN TEE HEE TEE HEE!!! Are you fucking kidding me!!! They went through all that and then they want to forget the lessons they have learned and just start over. Bullshit! Their reason for this "Everyone wants a clean slate!" Is stupid and ignorant. Not everyone wants a clean slate, some people learn from their mistakes and are better for it, you dumb writers. I guess these writers don't learn from their mistakes or want their children to understand what has happened before and how they overcame it. So throw away everything and make all the same mistakes again. Learn nothing from your past and only live in the present. This is what the writers idea of "circularity". Forget everything and just start over again. That is ignorance and wallowing in it. Sure if we only lived in the now we would all always be making the same mistakes over and over and over again. So yea there would be tons of circluar patterns to life if we did that.

Oh yea and the Cylons just decide to die off. What happened to "My race is dying?"

I understand why they did it. They wanted to tie in "real" Earth with this fictional one. It doesn't excuse the fact that it was the dumbest ending ever. They could of just went with an alternate universe type of thing. They rebuild Earth, but this time they know about the "circle" and are better people for it.

Sorry for the long rant. I really liked this show too, until this season. I liked all the Cylon/human drama, but the ending and Boomer were just too much. It ruined the whole damn series for me. I'll just pretend the series ended with Episode 10
 
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Sorry to hear you feel that way skavenhorde, but that was far from being "the dumbest ending evar".

Concerning Boomer: Did you watch the entire episode? Your description does not match what happened with her .

Concerning Cavil: It was obvious that he knew his days were numbered, and that he would rather take his own life than be captured or killed by the people he despised. It fit perfectly with the type of character he was.

Concerning "starting over": It was their decision, and they didn't really have much of a choice at that point, their supplies were pretty much exhausted. What were they going to do with the ships on that planet anyways? Turn them into houses? They were trying to finally "break the cycle", I didn't find it that hard to comprehend.

Concerning the Cylons "dying off": Nobody ever said they did. It was more or less implied that they were going to integrate with the rest of the population. Of course that doesn't include the Centurions, who went their seperate way in the Cylon base ship.
 
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Lol. That's some aggressive post. I personally liked the ending. :)

Yea, sorry abou that. I loved BSG, every season, everything about it. The relationships, the "angels", the drama. It was perfect until this season. Then they ripped the heart out of it just for the sake of that ending. ugghhh. Anyways it was a great series, one of the best Sci-fi series ever. It's right up there with Babylon 5 (Now that show knew how to end it properly!):D
 
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Sorry to hear you feel that way skavenhorde, but that was far from being "the dumbest ending evar".

Concerning Boomer: Did you watch the entire episode? Your description does not match what happened with her .

Concerning Cavil: It was obvious that he knew his days were numbered, and that he would rather take his own life than be captured or killed by the people he despised. It fit perfectly with the type of character he was.

Concerning "starting over": It was their decision, and they didn't really have much of a choice, their supplies were pretty much exhausted at that point anyways. What were they going to do with the ships on that planet? Turn them into houses? They were trying to finally "break the cycle", I didn't find it that hard to comprehend.

Concerning the Cylons "dying off": Nobody ever said they did. It was more or less implied that they simply integrated with the rest of the population. Of course that doesn't include the Centurions, who went their seperate way in the Cylon base ship.

Boomer: Put in jail, escaped with help, takes kid, flys back to colony. DUMB! Why not forgive her for what she had to do. She was programmed to kill the big guy. Hell they forgave the other cylons and let them travel with them. Even though they nuked them.

John: I disagree. He was too stubborn to not go out fighting. But that is just my take on him.

"starting over" Ohh nonnononon. They still had their ships, educational materials to teach their children, the machines to build their cities. This time however they will have the knowledge of their past mistakes. I mean what upset me most was that Galactica at the end was a human/cylon ship. It really looked like they finally started working together as a whole instead of focusing on their differences. Then all that work is for nothing. They'll have to go through all their history ALL OVER AGAIN without having learned a single thing. Seriously, do you want to have humanity go through the Dark Age again? We already learned our lesson from these time periods. If you throw all that away, then everyone who died before you is meaningless and what they died for was in vain.

Speaking of meaningless: Cara's worst fear actually did come true. In a generation or two she will be forgotten, because they are "starting over"

Cylons dying off: This is the part I was confused about. It said in the show "We'll just go down and die off naturally" I don't remember which cylon said that, but it just didn't make any sense. If they left that out or said we'll live together or something that shows that they are going to try and intergrate with the rest of the survivors and mix the races together to become one (which seemed to be the real goal) I don't know. That part was rushed imo.

I still think its the dumbest ending ever when taken into account it was one of the best series too.

EDIT: I should point out my biggest problem with the ending is not the building of cities or space ships. It is the loss of all the centuries of knowledge. All of the achievments and mistakes are all lost for nothing. Their biggest resource they had when they landed was their knowldege and yes "technology". I don't buy their flimsy excuse that our souls have to catch up with the technology. Well great throw it away then and guess what in 150,000 years you are going to have the same problem and you won't have any of the lessons learned from your ancestors.
 
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Boomer: Put in jail, escaped with help, takes kid, flys back to colony. DUMB! Why not forgive her for what she had to do. She was programmed to kill the big guy. Hell they forgave the other cylons and let them travel with them. Even though they nuked them.

John: I disagree. He was too stubborn to not go out fighting. But that is just my take on him.

"starting over" Ohh nonnononon. They still had their ships, educational materials to teach their children, the machines to build their cities. This time however they will have the knowledge of their past mistakes. I mean what upset me most was that Galactica at the end was a human/cylon ship. It really looked like they finally started working together as a whole instead of focusing on their differences. Then all that work is for nothing. They'll have to go through all their history ALL OVER AGAIN without having learned a single thing. Seriously, do you want to have humanity go through the Dark Age again? We already learned our lesson from these time periods. If you throw all that away, then everyone who died before you is meaningless and what they died for was in vain.

Speaking of meaningless: Cara's worst fear actually did come true. In a generation or two she will be forgotten, because they are "starting over"

Cylons dying off: This is the part I was confused about. It said in the show "We'll just go down and die off naturally" I don't remember which cylon said that, but it just didn't make any sense. If they left that out or said we'll live together or something that shows that they are going to try and intergrate with the rest of the survivors and mix the races together to become one (which seemed to be the real goal) I don't know. That part was rushed imo.

I still think its the dumbest ending ever when taken into account it was one of the best series too.


Boomer: Makes me think you missed a few episodes. Her character was very torn, and she was constantly being manipulated by other characters. The way she went out was actually one of the better parts of the finale, and gave her character a small, but important, measure of redemption.

Cavil: You're right about him being "stubborn". He was too stubborn to let his enemies have the last laugh. It was only him and one other Cylon on the bridge of the Galactica, surrounded by Colonial troops. He had no chance of escape, and took himself out, rather than allowing his enemies to have that accomplishment. It went hand in hand with the extreme sense of ego and selfishness that his character exhibited over the course of the series.

AFA the starting over thing goes, I won't argue over it. It's obvious that some people just didn't get it.
 
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Boomer: Makes me think you missed a few episodes. Her character was very torn, and she was constantly being manipulated by other characters. The way she went out was actually one of the better parts of the finale, and gave her character a small, but important, measure of redemption.

Cavil: You're right about him being "stubborn". He was too stubborn to let his enemies have the last laugh. It was only him and one other Cylon on the bridge of the Galactica, surrounded by Colonial troops. He had no chance of escape, and took himself out, rather than allowing his enemies to have that accomplishment. It went hand in hand with the extreme sense of ego and selfishness that his character exhibited over the course of the series.

AFA the starting over thing goes, I won't argue over it. It's obvious that some people just didn't get it.


Boomer: Makes me think you missed a few episodes. Her character was very torn, and she was constantly being manipulated by other characters. The way she went out was actually one of the better parts of the finale, and gave her character a small, but important, measure of redemption.

I never bought that all the way back from voting against "her own kind" Maybe I need to see the third season again, because in this one I think they screwed up her character royally. But you might be right and maybe I missed something because it just seemed like a load of horse manure.

AFA the starting over thing goes, I won't argue over it. It's obvious that some people just didn't get it.

So...."some people don't get it" could you make that statement anymore condesending? Come on, I'm just telling you I think it is insane to throw away centuries of knowledge for the sake of "starting over". You will come to that point again if your race survives long enough, but you have to go through all the pain and suffering that came with early civilizations.

So I'm not a fan considering knowledge an evil thing or that by starting over you solve your problems. Doesn't mean that I don't "get it". I get what they are trying to say and I think they are idiots for trying to say it. They tried to hard to tie in this Earth with their fictional Earth.
 
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As I see it, the problem is not in the beginning, or even the middle, but only the very end, and I have to agree with sklavenhorde that it feels stupid.

The whole starting over business in the final episode was getting on my nerves, too. They were shown planning the foundations of a city, so obviously resources were not an issue. They did have the option to break the cycle by learning from their past mistakes honestly. Instead the "ideal solution" presented by the writers is nothing more than a cheap cop-out, cultural suicide if you will.

Also, considering the friction in the fleet before, which was one of the main points in the series, it seems rather impossible that everyone would go along with a dubious idea like that. More "in character" would have been a fraction that wants to continue living with technology while Lee Adama, idealistic democrat that he was portrayed as, would be going along with it even if he supports the tabula rasa policy for himself.

Another thing that just spelled bad taste for me were the modern day clips showing off some japanese toy robots, with the implication clearly being that we face mortal danger by -- of all things -- future generations of those robots which have barely enough intelligence not to fall over by themselves. I don't know. I never objected to the storyline of WarGames, Terminator or The Matrix, but to end the series like this felt incredibly stupid, because to me, these very early attempts at building an android are maybe a bit silly and cute, definitely very japanese, interesting from an engineering standpoint, but dangerous? That's just ridiculous!

The series had some promise to me because it nicely exposed flaws in society we face even now, it held up a mirror in a way. But the ending note is just trivial technophobic nonsense. What a disappointment.
 
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As I see it, the problem is not in the beginning, or even the middle, but only the very end, and I have to agree with sklavenhorde that it feels stupid.

The whole starting over business in the final episode was getting on my nerves, too. They were shown planning the foundations of a city, so obviously resources were not an issue. They did have the option to break the cycle by learning from their past mistakes honestly. Instead the "ideal solution" presented by the writers is nothing more than a cheap cop-out, cultural suicide if you will.

Also, considering the friction in the fleet before, which was one of the main points in the series, it seems rather impossible that everyone would go along with a dubious idea like that. More "in character" would have been a fraction that wants to continue living with technology while Lee Adama, idealistic democrat that he was portrayed as, would be going along with it even if he supports the tabula rasa policy for himself.

Another thing that just spelled bad taste for me were the modern day clips showing off some japanese toy robots, with the implication clearly being that we face mortal danger by -- of all things -- future generations of those robots which have barely enough intelligence not to fall over by themselves. I don't know. I never objected to the storyline of WarGames, Terminator or The Matrix, but to end the series like this felt incredibly stupid, because to me, these very early attempts at building an android are maybe a bit silly and cute, definitely very japanese, interesting from an engineering standpoint, but dangerous? That's just ridiculous!

The series had some promise to me because it nicely exposed flaws in society we face even now, it held up a mirror in a way. But the ending note is just trivial technophobic nonsense. What a disappointment.

Their (and the Cylon's) civilizations had already "started over" in the past using the tactics that you're claiming they should have used. The 12 colonies, "Cylon Earth" (the first Earth they discovered) etc. It didn't work. Hence the recurring theme - "All this has happened before, and all this will happen again" They had to try something different in an attempt to break the cycle. I'm not sure what's so difficult to accept about that.

I agree about the clips of the "modern day robots" at the end though. That part did seem a bit out of place.
 
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Their (and the Cylon's) civilizations had already "started over" in the past using the tactics that you're claiming they should have used. The 12 colonies, "Cylon Earth" (the first Earth they discovered) etc. It didn't work. Hence the recurring theme - "All this has happened before, and all this will happen again" They had to try something different in an attempt to break the cycle. I'm not sure what's so difficult to accept about that.

I agree about the clips of the "modern day robots" at the end though. That part did seem a bit out of place.

You make a valid point, and I kinda see what the writers are trying to sell, but I have a hard time buying it. It just seems too naive for me to think that forgetting history and going through cultural evolution all over again is going to improve society somehow.

By the way, was it ever elaborated on what went wrong on "Cylon Earth" exactly? What was the reason for the nuclear holocaust? Did they exploit the Centurions there, too? Maybe I just missed this part.

Maybe if they had reasoned that it is not right for them to disturb the tribal society already existing on the planet and they will stay out of the way as much as possible for that reason I could have accepted it more easily.
 
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About that planet.

By the way, was it ever elaborated on what went wrong on "Cylon Earth" exactly? What was the reason for the nuclear holocaust? Did they exploit the Centurions there, too? Maybe I just missed this part.


Yes, the same deadly cycle took place there as well. That's why the Final Five set out to find the 12 colonies, and to try to stop them from repeating the same mistake. Of course they were too late, by the time they reached the colonies, the first human-cylon war had already begun.
 
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Hmm...

About that planet.

Yes, the same deadly cycle took place there as well. That's why the Final Five set out to find the 12 colonies, and to try to stop them from repeating the same mistake. Of course they were too late, by the time they reached the colonies, the first human-cylon war had already begun.

Thanks, I did not remember whether Centurion exploitation was the reason there, too. I guess I am still unhappy about the ending, but on the other hand, at least the series "jumped the shark" only when it hardly mattered anymore and it ended as planned.
 
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Buy the DVDs, watch it again from the beginning. ;)

I watched the whole 4th season again, plus razor and I am even more convinced the writers were higher than a kite when writing the ending.

I'll give you Boomer. Maybe I just don't get why she seemed to have all kinds of problems. I have got to buy season 3. It's been too long since I saw that. Maybe that is when Boomer starts getting shafted by the writers. All I recall is that she went from being an influential cylon along with Caprica and guiding the cylons on a more peaceful course with the humans. To whatever she was in season 4.

As for the 4th season ending. I'm sorry, but I have a real problem with any story that just so nonchalantly decides to throw away their collected history and knowledge.

It's insulting the way the treated it too. That lawyer guy saying along the lines of "The people are willing to give up their creature comforts?" Really? That's all that would be given up? That is just insulting to anyone with half a brain. What about everything that humans have learned along the way throughout our history like equality, banning slavery, medicine, economics, hell even the toilet dramatcially changed us. Just toss all of these things down the...well toilet... and start a fresh new chapter of pain and suffering. I don't know about you guys, but even with all of our problems in the 21st century, they are nothing when compered to our history. Yeaaa, let's go through the inquisition again shall we. That was a particularly fun part of our history or the Crusades or the black death. All of these things were just so much fun. It's amazing how lame these writers were when trying to tie in that fictional Earth with our Earth.

Oh now let's get to the end of Razor. At the very end Lee and his father are discussing whether the Admiral of the Peguses will be judged. Bill Adama says that "History will be the judge of her and our history will be written in our log reports" Well I guess that idea is flushed down the toilet, because they essentially have no history now.

That's my take on it. Seems like a grand scale book burning to me, but hey it's just my take on it. Maybe there are more people out there that think knowledge is bad and ignorance is good;) in case your wondering I wasn't serious about that last sentence :D
 
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I watched the whole 4th season again, plus razor and I am even more convinced the writers were higher than a kite when writing the ending.

I'll give you Boomer. Maybe I just don't get why she seemed to have all kinds of problems. I have got to buy season 3. It's been too long since I saw that. Maybe that is when Boomer starts getting shafted by the writers. All I recall is that she went from being an influential cylon along with Caprica and guiding the cylons on a more peaceful course with the humans. To whatever she was in season 4.

As for the 4th season ending. I'm sorry, but I have a real problem with any story that just so nonchalantly decides to throw away their collected history and knowledge.

It's insulting the way the treated it too. That lawyer guy saying along the lines of "The people are willing to give up their creature comforts?" Really? That's all that would be given up? That is just insulting to anyone with half a brain. What about everything that humans have learned along the way throughout our history like equality, banning slavery, medicine, economics, hell even the toilet dramatcially changed us. Just toss all of these things down the...well toilet... and start a fresh new chapter of pain and suffering. I don't know about you guys, but even with all of our problems in the 21st century, they are nothing when compered to our history. Yeaaa, let's go through the inquisition again shall we. That was a particularly fun part of our history or the Crusades or the black death. All of these things were just so much fun. It's amazing how lame these writers were when trying to tie in that fictional Earth with our Earth.

Oh now let's get to the end of Razor. At the very end Lee and his father are discussing whether the Admiral of the Peguses will be judged. Bill Adama says that "History will be the judge of her and our history will be written in our log reports" Well I guess that idea is flushed down the toilet, because they essentially have no history now.

That's my take on it. Seems like a grand scale book burning to me, but hey it's just my take on it. Maybe there are more people out there that think knowledge is bad and ignorance is good;) in case your wondering I wasn't serious about that last sentence :D


Ok, about Boomer. After reading what you just wrote, I'm convinced you must have missed some scenes. She didn't just go from being an influential Cylon to "whatever she was in Season 4".

When civil war broke out between the different models (I don't recall when the exact episode was, early Season 4 perhaps?) the Number Eights (Sharons) joined the Number Sixes, the Number Twos(Leobens), and the freed Centurions to form the rebel Cylons. All except the lone Number Eight known as Boomer, who sided with Cavil when the humanoid Cylons voted on whether or not to give the Centurions free will, which is what caused the Cylons to splinter in the first place. Already considered a traitor by the Humans, she then became a traitor to the Cylons as well at that point. She was especially despised because, until that point, no Cylon had ever gone against her own line (model).

There's no connection between the ending of the series and the ending of Razor. Those events took place before the discovery of the Final Five and Cylon Earth, before they realized the ongoing cycle in which they were caught up in. I'm not going to go on about it, I'll simply point to what I wrote above. (#33)

I don't really have a problem with the whole "starting over" thing. My problem was with the epilogue, which was just plain stupid imo, and all the flashbacks, which sucked up too much of the episode. I don't think the ending was "terrible", but it could have been sooo much better. That being said, the best part of the series was seasons One and Two, as well as the mini-series.
 
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Ok, about Boomer. After reading what you just wrote, I'm convinced you must have missed some scenes. She didn't just go from being an influential Cylon to "whatever she was in Season 4".

When civil war broke out between the different models (I don't recall when the exact episode was, early Season 4 perhaps?) the Number Eights (Sharons) joined the Number Sixes, the Number Twos(Leobens), and the freed Centurions to form the rebel Cylons. All except the lone Number Eight known as Boomer, who sided with Cavil when the humanoid Cylons voted on whether or not to give the Centurions free will, which is what caused the Cylons to splinter in the first place. Already considered a traitor by the Humans, she then became a traitor to the Cylons as well at that point. She was especially despised because, until that point, no Cylon had ever gone against her own line (model).

There's no connection between the ending of the series and the ending of Razor. Those events took place before the discovery of the Final Five and Cylon Earth, before they realized the ongoing cycle in which they were caught up in. I'm not going to go on about it, I'll simply point to what I wrote above. (#33)

I don't really have a problem with the whole "starting over" thing. My problem was with the epilogue, which was just plain stupid imo, and all the flashbacks, which sucked up too much of the episode. I don't think the ending was "terrible", but it could have been sooo much better. That being said, the best part of the series was seasons One and Two, as well as the mini-series.

That, my friend, I can agree whole heartily that the best seasons were one and two. I would throw in season three too and four up to a point. That was why I was so upset when I saw the last episode and my first post here might have been a little "aggresive" ;)

I saw that part, but I didn't understand her motivation behind her decision. She wants to be more machine, but why? I get that she felt betrayed by her maker and didn't want to "feel" anymore. But wasn't it John's fault that she was programmed to infiltrate the humans and then when the time is right, triggered to assasinate the Old Man. And why would Adama and the president forgive all the other cylons, but her. They made it out like she wanted to do all this and was playing everyone for a fool, but when in fact she was the one being played. That was all in season four and I've seen that twice now and both times her motivation behind her actions seems sketchy at best. Oh well, it's no biggy.

Now I think I'll see what the big hubbub is about Twilight. I hear that is pretty good :)
 
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