New Computer - Quick view of parts?

you said:

You completely missed the point. You don't know what the future holds.

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With that kind of logic, why upgrade at all?

No, we don't know exactly what the future holds. When we upgrade, we're making educated guesses based on the information we have. It's not rocket science.

We upgrade because current computer is not adequate.

I'll try to remember not to use sarcasm with you in the future.

Don't make me turn this thread around and recommend a PS4 Pro instead!

Hello again.

Thank you for your advice everyone. It is much appreciated.
I am almost there with my savings target for this computer and so I have started reviewing all the options again.

Going through all of it again, I seem to have managed to reduce the cost by over £100, putting myself back on budget.

Researching this further, it seems like the 8600k is probably much more than I would need in the next 4 years or so and so I downgraded to the i5-8400 in the build below. I also made some other small changes you suggested such as picking a different MB and moving from a 3TB HDD to a 2TB Hybrid, which I hope will provide me with a good speed/space ratio. (I currently have only 750 GB of space, 250 SSD and 500GB HDD and still manage ok)
I changed the power supply from Corsair to a highly rated EVGA one so hope that's better.

One very odd thing is that the 1070 Ti seems to be cheaper than the 1070 at the moment. No idea why, but picked it in the build.

Finally, I also added a sound card and a wireless card as I will want to use the wireless. Hope this new build works, but I have a couple of questions.

1. Should I wait for the new gen of CPUs to avoid the malware issues ? If so, when are they due to come out ? I do not want to wait 2 years (and prefer going for a cheaper option and change later if that has any sense)

2. Am I missing anything in the build ?

3. Any point in getting a 950 PRO Samsung SSD versus the 850 EVO ? My research seems to indicate that unless I work with databases, the impact would be minimal.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8400 2.8GHz 6-Core Processor (£147.97 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: MSI - Z370-A PRO ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (£89.98 @ Ebuyer)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory (£143.99 @ Aria PC)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (£103.19 @ Aria PC)
Storage: Seagate - FireCuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Hybrid Internal Hard Drive (£73.79 @ Aria PC)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1070 Ti 8GB SC GAMING ACX 3.0 Black Edition Video Card (£366.03 @ Amazon UK)
Case: Phanteks - ECLIPSE P400S ATX Mid Tower Case (£71.99 @ AWD-IT)
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G2 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (£73.09 @ Amazon UK)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit (£82.38 @ Aria PC)
Sound Card: Asus - Xonar DGX 24-bit 96 KHz Sound Card (£31.98 @ CCL Computers)
Wireless Network Adapter: Gigabyte - GC-WB867D-I PCI-Express x1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac Wi-Fi Adapter (£25.96 @ CCL Computers)
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver - 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver 3.5g Thermal Paste (£6.49 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
Total: £1216.84
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-06-28 02:45 BST+0100

Pladio said:

Hello again.
1. Should I wait for the new gen of CPUs to avoid the malware issues ? If so, when are they due to come out ? I do not want to wait 2 years (and prefer going for a cheaper option and change later if that has any sense)

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tbh I don't think you'll notice any difference.

3. Any point in getting a 950 PRO Samsung SSD versus the 850 EVO ? My research seems to indicate that unless I work with databases, the impact would be minimal.

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The advantage is additional reliability, which...can be achieved with regular backups as well. Personally I went for pro, but if you are on a tight budget I don't think that's a good idea. Just go evo instead.

I'm not a fan of seagate drives due to high historical failure rate. Also you might price 4tb drives to see where they are relative to 2tb models.

The security flaw question comes down to your own evaluation of the problem, really. As we discussed before, the problem is in the hardware, the workarounds (which Windows will use by default) do have a performance hit, and it's quite possible that new attacks on it will arrive in the future.

To me, that's a very displeasing situation, and I'd wait, but I'm sure many people will muddle through just fine without ever worrying about it.

I don't think there's any firm details on when fixed CPUs will be along, so if the upgrade is urgent, you may not have much choice.

you said:

I'm not a fan of seagate drives due to high historical failure rate. Also you might price 4tb drives to see where they are relative to 2tb models.

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This. They're still good as nonfrequent external backup drives. For daily use inside a rig, I'd avoid their HDDs.

Thanks. I will have a look at the hybrid drives again tonight.
On the cpu, I think I am now noticing several games I want to play being slow, including Elex and battletech. So I can wait for a bit but I think I would want to have a computer within this year....

Is it worth getting an older processor (7th gen) and cheaper motherboard and change in a few years again?

Am I missing any other components you think I would need?
For example I didn't think of the sound card until just a few days ago...

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

7th gen is fine performance wise but you really want 9th generation if you want the hardware fix for meltdown. ryzen has very minor issues in this area so you could consider ryzen or ryzen 2 which tend to be a bit less. I.e, a i7 ryzen is faster than i5 intel for less money (obvsiouly ryzen doens't make ix so just throw in the word equivalent).

With regard to Ryzen, it's true that there are fewer current known exploits for the vulnerability (though more could be found), but I wouldn't consider the fundamental flaw minor, personally. OS workarounds with performance implications will still be necessary on these CPUs.

you said:

I'm not a fan of seagate drives due to high historical failure rate. Also you might price 4tb drives to see where they are relative to 2tb models.

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joxer said:

This. They're still good as nonfrequent external backup drives. For daily use inside a rig, I'd avoid their HDDs.

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Odd, they seem to be the most popular and highly rated SSD/HD Hybrid on PCPartPicker and UserBenchmark. Also, their HDDs are very well reviewed too. Why do you think they are bad ?

I guess what I will do is go for a 500GB SSD and 2TB HDD instead of the SSHD maybe ?

you said:

7th gen is fine performance wise but you really want 9th generation if you want the hardware fix for meltdown. ryzen has very minor issues in this area so you could consider ryzen or ryzen 2 which tend to be a bit less. I.e, a i7 ryzen is faster than i5 intel for less money (obvsiouly ryzen doens't make ix so just throw in the word equivalent).

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Ripper said:

With regard to Ryzen, it's true that there are fewer current known exploits for the vulnerability (though more could be found), but I wouldn't consider the fundamental flaw minor, personally. OS workarounds with performance implications will still be necessary on these CPUs.

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Wouldn't I need to then also shift MB ?

Professional reviews do not have historical data and their critera (cept for storagereview) do not consider longevity or reliablity. Look at users reviews. I avoid hybrid drives and won't comment on those but will say they will obviously perform faster on certain work loads but I can't make any comments first hand or second hand on their reliablities.
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anywhat i don't care which hd you buy I just added my 2ct based on personal and corporate experience further any drive can fail and any drive can last 5 to 10 years so no matter what brand (and/or) model you buy there will be a bit of luck of the draw. Just try to pick the one that is more advantages. Btw heat is not great for drive longevity.
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If you go with ryzen you will need a different mb. If you wait for ice-lake (9th generation intel) you will very likely need a different mb but i don't think anything has been formally announced and intel specs are subject to change (I think - maybe not - not sure if they are already producing silicon for corporate users to test).
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Pick your cpu then pick your mb. Check user reviews - but don't just look at the rating - read the middle and negative commetns to see if they are relevant to yourself - i've seen people go nuts over the clicking noise that some hd drive make or that the formatted drive doesn't match the raw size.

you said:

Professional reviews do not have historical data and their critera (cept for storagereview) do not consider longevity or reliablity. Look at users reviews. I avoid hybrid drives and won't comment on those but will say they will obviously perform faster on certain work loads but I can't make any comments first hand or second hand on their reliablities.
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anywhat i don't care which hd you buy I just added my 2ct based on personal and corporate experience further any drive can fail and any drive can last 5 to 10 years so no matter what brand (and/or) model you buy there will be a bit of luck of the draw. Just try to pick the one that is more advantages. Btw heat is not great for drive longevity.
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If you go with ryzen you will need a different mb. If you wait for ice-lake (9th generation intel) you will very likely need a different mb but i don't think anything has been formally announced and intel specs are subject to change (I think - maybe not - not sure if they are already producing silicon for corporate users to test).
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Pick your cpu then pick your mb. Check user reviews - but don't just look at the rating - read the middle and negative commetns to see if they are relevant to yourself - i've seen people go nuts over the clicking noise that some hd drive make or that the formatted drive doesn't match the raw size.

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Thank you.

I'll do that.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Well, due to having saved for a few more months and looking at a few different builds and my previous thread on CPUs I think I have done it.

I think the build below is my final build and I would be willing to order this week, so no more annoying posts from me soon

Anyone think this set-up is problematic, please let me know?
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 2600 3.4GHz 6-Core Processor (£149.98 @ Ebuyer)
CPU Cooler: AMD - Wraith Max 55.8 CFM CPU Cooler (£44.18 @ More Computers)
Motherboard: MSI - X470 GAMING PLUS ATX AM4 Motherboard (£119.96 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory (£138.83 @ More Computers)
Storage: Samsung - 860 Evo 1TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive (£178.97 @ CCL Computers)
Video Card: MSI - GeForce GTX 1070 Ti 8GB Video Card (£439.79 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
Case: Phanteks - Enthoo Pro M Tempered Glass (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case (£81.59 @ Aria PC)
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G3 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (£119.99 @ Novatech)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home Full 32/64-bit (£99.98 @ Ebuyer)
Wireless Network Adapter: Asus - PCE-AC68 PCI-Express x1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac Wi-Fi Adapter (£57.99 @ Box Limited)
Total: £1431.26
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-10-06 19:37 BST+0100

Some vague hand waving comments:

(I don't want to recommend specifics because my system is a couple of years old and intel - i don't own an amd system today in part because they release their new architecture after i built my last gaming system - which is haswell)
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I generally don't like working with msi board; and prefer asrock or asus. Also if are going to get a pcie wireless adapter then get a m.2 intel for $30. The last one i got was 7260 but the standard has changed over the years so there is probably a newer model with the newer standard. They have several model numbers depending on the specific features you want (This is only relevant if you board supports a m.2 wifi adapter - some don't).

My preference for asrock mb is (a) good layouts (b) easy to work with bios (but not best bios for overclocking) and feature set per $ (i.e, cheap). The last msi board i had (early intel dual core) had a really poor bios for basic stuff and generally didn't get much love but it was reliable. It also had serious layout issues.
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Also if you are using the on board sound go with a 1120 chip instead of 892.
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If you go with a m.2 ssd go with one that supports nvme (I think the 860 comes in both models or maybe all their m.2 support nvme - not sure - i know some m.2 ssd do not support nvme such as mx500 and bx300. i.e, m.2 is a form factor not an interface.
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Your power supply is excessively expensive and also larger than you need 650 should be plenty and 600 is probably fine. If you like that model/brand then check the price on the 650 it should be 30lb less. My personal preference on power supply is seasonic platinum but the one you picked is fine just way too expensive and bigger than you require.
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If you can find someone who works at microsoft windows 10 would be $35 also it would be transferable to a new machine. If you buy windows 10 from a vendor check if it is oem or non-oem (oem version can't be transfer to a new machine if that matters to yourself).
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If computer size matters - you can build an itx system and if case doesn't allow full length graphic card gigabyte and zotac both sell a 'mini-1070' which is 1/2 length. My gaming pc is one of these. There are more expensive itx cases that are the size of a shoe such as m4 and the new one from the folks in sweden; but they are expensive - and i'm cheap.
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I generally buy either curcial or g.skill memory - ripjaws is a good series. No clue if it is compatible with your motherboard or amd friendly - no clue if speed makes a significant difference - just haven't built a dd4 system yet. in usa gskill support has been excellent. I didn't look at uk pricing for graphics card - i would just pick the cheapest from msi, gigabyte, zotac and a few other brands and then double check user reviews for high failures - the 1070 has been out for a long time. Btw if you are running 1440p or 1080 might as well get a 1070 instead of a 1070 ti if there is a big price difference. My box at home has a mini zotac 1070 but it is only 2 years old - well - the psu is 8 years old but i had to get a new mb when i downsized to itx.
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I'll do some kind of combined comment

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 2600 3.4GHz 6-Core Processor (£149.98 @ Ebuyer)
CPU Cooler: AMD - Wraith Max 55.8 CFM CPU Cooler (£44.18 @ More Computers)
Motherboard: MSI - X470 GAMING PLUS ATX AM4 Motherboard (£119.96 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory (£138.83 @ More Computers)

Click to expand...

I generally don't like working with msi board; and prefer asrock or asus. Also if are going to get a pcie wireless adapter then get a m.2 intel for $30. The last one i got was 7260 but the standard has changed over the years so there is probably a newer model with the newer standard. They have several model numbers depending on the specific features you want (This is only relevant if you board supports a m.2 wifi adapter - some don't).

My preference for asrock mb is (a) good layouts (b) easy to work with bios (but not best bios for overclocking) and feature set per $ (i.e, cheap). The last msi board i had (early intel dual core) had a really poor bios for basic stuff and generally didn't get much love but it was reliable. It also had serious layout issues.
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Also if you are using the on board sound go with a 1120 chip instead of 892.
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Click to expand...

I also have no personal experience with Ryzen and didn't read into it, so regarding the socket / CPU I cannot comment much. Personally I'd probably prefer intel for a new machine which also should be faster for most games but...that likely doesn't matter enough to be recognizable and due to the current production shortage the prices for intel are stupid expensive. So this looks like a reasonable choice.

The Cooler...well, not sure if it's worth investing £44.18 into a cooler which in the end isn't that awesome either. You already got a stock cooler which might be sufficient. I guess I'd go with the stock cooler or buy something really good like the noctua NH-D15, which is also more expensive ofc.

Regarding the board: I don't have any bad experience with MSI. I personally wouldn't recommend ASUS anymore. Had some problems with my board (though nothing too serious) and the support is basically as bad as possible. These issues included that I could not use the G.Skill Ripjaws 3200 which I am using as well, to the full 3200 Mhz. I have no idea whether this is a memory or board issue. Instead of using their normal profile which overclocks them to 3200Mhz I manually overclocked them to 3100 or something like that to get a stable system.

Regarding W-Lan I have no idea as I never cared.

Regarding sound I recommend to buy an external solution. Pretty everything external will be better than internal solutions, even if you buy a 10€ USB soundcard. The advantage is that external soundcards are not affected by internal interferences and you have the option to put the cable as you like without causing additional interferences.

Storage: Samsung - 860 Evo 1TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive (£178.97 @ CCL Computers)

If you go with a m.2 ssd go with one that supports nvme (I think the 860 comes in both models or maybe all their m.2 support nvme - not sure - i know some m.2 ssd do not support nvme such as mx500 and bx300. i.e, m.2 is a form factor not an interface.

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The 860 M.2 apparently is no NVME drive and only has a fraction of the speed the 960 Evo has, which is NVME.
I haven't read much about NVME, so I cannot give any details here, but I don't see the point in buying a 860 EVO M2 if the speed is the same as the speed of the cheaper 860 EVO SATA.
Prices are on alternate:
860 EVO SATA: 177,90€
860 EVO M2: 199,90€
960 EVO M2: 279,00€

I can see why you don't want to pay the additional 80€ (or whatever the difference in pounds is) but...just using m.2 for the sake of it doesnt make much sense to me. Might actually block the slot for the future if you decide to buy a drive which actually uses that speed.

Video Card: MSI - GeForce GTX 1070 Ti 8GB Video Card (£439.79 @ Overclockers.co.uk)

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the 1070 has been out for a long time. Btw if you are running 1440p or 1080 might as well get a 1070 instead of a 1070 ti if there is a big price difference.

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The 1070ti should be by far the best option. It offers more speed than the 1070 but instead of 20% price difference you get it for 5% price difference. The 1070ti is the newest addition (of the last generation) and is best price value.
Alternate didn't even have a 1080 MSI card anymore, so I took the ASUS strix as comparison (which is quite expensive, but this is just to demonstrate the price jumps between the models which should be similar for MSI)
GTX 1070: 519€
GTX 1070 Ti: 549€
GTX 1080: 639€

Test on PCgamer is pretty got for comparison:
https://www.pcgamer.com/geforce-gtx-1070-ti-review/
for 1440p
GTX 1070: 60.9 fps avg
GTX 1070 Ti: 67.9 avg
GTX 1080: 75 fps avg

I'd personally definitely go for the 1070 ti just because the price difference is so negligible.

Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G3 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (£119.99 @ Novatech)

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Your power supply is excessively expensive and also larger than you need 650 should be plenty and 600 is probably fine. If you like that model/brand then check the price on the 650 it should be 30lb less. My personal preference on power supply is seasonic platinum but the one you picked is fine just way too expensive and bigger than you require.

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Yep, pretty much over the top. You could probably add another gtx 1070ti and the supply wouldn't even be sweating. If that's the idea, then it's cool.
I actually did the same...which in hindsight was stupid.
I'd probably go with you's recommendation. If you want to spend a lot of money on your PSU you can also spend it on more efficiency. Seasonic is a pretty good choice but I also like XFX as an option which also has some compltetely passive options.

And for Windows 10: Yeah...won't recommend to go to a grey market reseller, but before you buy anything, first try if you can use your old license. Even OEM Versions can work without problems.

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Just an FYI: NVME uses the pci bus directly instead of sata interface. PCI can transfer at bus speed sata is restricted - i forget the exact numbers but I think sata 3 is 600MB and pci is greater than 3GB. Of course very few drives can read/write at 3GB/s but anyway.
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I personally prefer 2.5" drive over m.2 for sata since my drive bays are easier to manage than m.2 placement (esp those boards that put the drive on underside of the mb (I think newer boards put the drive between pci slots but depends on board and form factor of board)).
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i don't think xfx makes their PSU - they are probably seasonic or superflower.

Ah, yeah, that's what I thought. I am confused though why Samsung released the "real" m.2 with full speed first (at least with that branding we know) and then another one with this bad interface afterwards.

From what I have read before is that the first m.2 still had the old interface as kind of leftover. But to release a new one with the old interface makes no sense to me.

Regarding the PSU: I have no idea who is building them, but they had quite a unique constellation in the market when I bought it and considered buying it for my main PC as well. The options for fanless PSUs aren't exactly plenty.