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RPGWatch Forums » Games » General RPG » Kingdom Come: Deliverance - Tip and Tricks -

Default Kingdom Come: Deliverance - Tip and Tricks -

August 15th, 2018, 16:43
Originally Posted by Eye View Post
Thanks for the information. Much appreciated.
You're welcome

I see. Well, I have little to compare with that is not years old.
Anyway, I got a bit bored in Talmberg; there is little else to do but follow the line you are pushed in. Stealing for instance is rather pointless if you can not sell it. I tried killing one or two soldiers, but that did not quite help me in Talmberg. Not much herbs to gather there either.
Yeah, I guess I "sensed" that it was still the introduction - so I basically just did what the game expected me to do, without experimenting much.

I'm pretty good at guessing the intention of the designers in this way, and I find it relatively common that there'a sequence of "learning events" that you have to go through before the game has truly begun.

That said, it's definitely a much longer time before that happens in KCD, but I think it's for the best - because a lot of things would be hard to understand for many players, if they didn't guide them a little.

Having to answer and then learning later you misunderstood the consequence (mentioned in this thread here by someone else as well) was a nuisance to me. Having to answer within a certain time or else the system just takes the first option (for that one is highlighted) was a nuisance too, for I was distracted by things happening irl that suddenly needed my attention. And no possibility to reread what I missed.
Ok, fair enough. I didn't experience anything like that, for some reason.

But it's most definitely not a great game if stuff is going on IRL that you're distracted by. It's a very demanding game - and since it focuses so heavily on immersion - I think it's best played when you can dedicate yourself to it 100%

Yeah, I guess. But me, I’d like to decide that part myself. A player can always decide to use no in between saves at all, other then on exit, but I prefer to be given a choice when to rest or save or pause. What I did now was that I just quit the game, save on exit, and then start it again. Which is a hassle.
Me, I find tension and meaning in other things than not having the possibility to save, I do not gnaw on my finger nails when playing the lottery or a cardgame where I could hit the jackpot or go bust (not saying you do, Darth, I do not think you are fond of those simplicities, those imposed subterfuges either), me, I find meaning and tension in seeking the best strategic choices. So I like to go back on a previous choice.
I am already making enough wrong choices without having the possibility to restore them irl as it is.
Hehe, that's not quite how saving on exit works

If you save on exit - load it back up, and you die - that save game is lost. So, what you're doing won't change anything about the system enforcing the harder choice.

I understand what you're saying, though. For me, it comes down to the kind of game I'm playing and how invested I am.

If it's just a combat-driven game - or something I'm playing just to pass the time, then I definitely can't accept a limited save system like this one.

But if it's a game I'm heavily invested in - and in which I'm actually forgetting that I'm playing a game on occasion - then I really appreciate not being able to "game the system" so to speak.

I don't have the discipline to not save under any circumstances. Having unlimited quick saves would be like buying a bunch of candy and storing it in the fridge, telling myself I don't HAVE to eat it all that day.

I can't do that either - so I have to actually NOT buy candy to avoid eating the stuff

Sometimes, the choice I want to make "in the moment" is not the choice I actually want to make if I have the time to think about it - or if I'm not subject to my impulses.

But I commend you for having that kind of discipline, and - in that case - the unlimited saves mod is probably better.

Great! Thanks! I will search for that one.
I think it's the most popular mod on the Nexus

Well, perhaps it is my bad. I was hoping for a second Gothic 2, which grabbed me with all my being at the time, postponing bedtime every day, but maybe that was a once in a lifetime experience.

Any way, thanks. I won’t give up yet, and with that mod the play will be more to my satisfaction I guess.
Hardly. It's not our own "bad" that we don't love all games

Games are different things to different people, and sometimes it matters more where you are in life than what the actual game is doing.

If we're busy and we have a lot going on IRL - it's much harder to immerse ourselves in games.

That's true for me as well. KCD was just an exception and it took me three times to fall in love with it.
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August 15th, 2018, 17:15
Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
Hehe, that's not quite how saving on exit works

If you save on exit - load it back up, and you die - that save game is lost. So, what you're doing won't change anything about the system enforcing the harder choice.
I quit before actually dying. But hey, if I die I rarely care most of the time. I care about having wasted time gathering herbs or loot or having picked the wrong answer or ending up in jail for trying to kill someone who turned out to be stronger than I thought. So for those case I chose exit and save.

I am now playing with the mod. Such a relieve! My eternal thanks.
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August 15th, 2018, 17:20
Your save is lost upon loading regardless

But it’s good to hear you’re enjoying it more with the mod.
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August 15th, 2018, 18:02
Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
Your save is lost upon loading regardless
Not if I don’t die, it would, wouldn’t it?

Example:
I gather much herbs. Found a lot of loot. I meet a person of whom I think will be useful to kill. I quit and save on exit.
I start the game, load and I take on the fight, I see I am losing, so wrong decision. Before dying or having to surrender I quit the game without saving, and when starting the game I am quite well again with all the goodies I want to have, with all being friendly to me, and I won’t be killed or go to jail and pay a huge fine.

Not needed now of course. Thanks to you. Well, you and the one that wrote that mod.
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August 15th, 2018, 18:11
Originally Posted by Eye View Post
Not if I don’t die, it would, wouldn’t it?

Example:
I gather much herbs. Found a lot of loot. I meet a person of whom I think will be useful to kill. I quit and save on exit.
I start the game, load and I take on the fight, I see I am losing, so wrong decision. Before dying or having to surrender I quit the game without saving, and when starting the game I am quite well again with all the goodies I want to have, with all being friendly to me, and I won’t be killed or go to jail and pay a huge fine.

Not needed now of course. Thanks to you. Well, you and the one that wrote that mod.
AFAIK, the save on exit file is deleted upon loading it successfully, which is how that feature usually works. So, you’d have to load the last manual save.

Same was true in Fallout 4 survival, for instance. That’s how they prevent exploiting it, which would make the whole thing superfluous.

That said, I haven’t actually tried it, because I never quit without saving
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August 15th, 2018, 21:22
Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
AFAIK, the save on exit file is deleted upon loading it successfully, which is how that feature usually works. So, you’d have to load the last manual save.

Same was true in Fallout 4 survival, for instance. That’s how they prevent exploiting it, which would make the whole thing superfluous.

That said, I haven’t actually tried it, because I never quit without saving
I did it more than once, chose ‘continue’ when starting to get the last save on exit file. IIRC.
When it comes to KCD I think no extra steps are needed to prevent people like me exploiting a save on exit, it takes a lot of time to get into the game again. Time I used to read RPGWatch.
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August 15th, 2018, 22:13
Originally Posted by Eye View Post
Well, perhaps it is my bad. I was hoping for a second Gothic 2, which grabbed me with all my being at the time, postponing bedtime every day, but maybe that was a once in a lifetime experience.
It probably was a once in a lifetime experience, but not just because of how good Gothic 2 was but also because that was a long time ago, and our perceptions and expectations have changed since then.

If KCD had been released in 2002, some of us might have died from starvation and sleep deprivation.
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August 16th, 2018, 09:18
Originally Posted by Eye View Post
I did it more than once, chose ‘continue’ when starting to get the last save on exit file. IIRC.
I was curious, so I checked out a few forum posts related to this. Here's one quote of the handful I've found so far:

For reference the update to saving aka save and exit won’t create permanent saves. You play for 3hours without saving use save and exit it’s like a suspended save once you load it back up its gone and if you die gg those 3 hours.

So, unless all these people are imagining things, the save on exit file IS deleted upon loading it up - as is the norm with this kind of system.

So, if you loaded back into a game using Continue - that would be the last auto-save or manual save. Probably it was so close to your save and exit game that you didn't really notice it

I remember it took me a while to realise how it worked when I played Fallout 4 Survival - because I don't usually subject myself to that kind of system - unless it's a game I'm really happy to immerse myself in and take that kind of risk.

When it comes to KCD I think no extra steps are needed to prevent people like me exploiting a save on exit, it takes a lot of time to get into the game again. Time I used to read RPGWatch.
Well, the thing is that their system didn't actually prevent you from attempting to exploit it - it just didn't work

But I fully understand not wanting this kind of save system. A LOT of people hate it - and I can easily see why.

I would hate it in 9 out of 10 games as well - especially if I was annoyed with it like you seem to be. Then such a system would only make it worse.

Personally, though, I've decided to play KCD in Hardcore mode - which is another thing I never really do - so maybe I have a masochistic streak after all

As for Gothic 2 - I'd say Gothic was my Gothic 2.

It's funny we keep talking about Gothic, though - because that's exactly what KCD reminds me of. The OLD Gothics, that is.

I clearly remember having to deal with a bunch of jank and quirky stuff in the original Gothic - like the awkward control scheme - but I did so gladly, after realising how rewarding the game was.

But, as JDR mentioned, times were different then - and I think we were all more likely to dedicate ourselves to games on another level than we can today. Well, for the most part
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August 16th, 2018, 10:05
Well, thanks for searching for more info on this.

But to me it remains a mystery. For I remember clearly in Talmberg after a restart returning to a corner next to the guard chamber again and again trying to choke a guard a couple of times (in different places).
I thought I returned using ‘Continue’ but maybe it was a manual load? If it was, it definitely was not a manual save, I did not use that schnaps.
It is hard to remember because now my memory is filled with delightful uncomplicated saves with and without restarting the game.

Maybe you or someone could fiddle with it next time you are playing? In case you are still curious that is, of course. I know I am - but not that much that I’ll delete that mod, restart the game, walk to a different position, save, check, etc.

Gothic 2 and the awkward control scheme.
Gothic 2 was my first RPG ever (without knowing this was an RPG, to me it was just ‘a’ game when I started playing it). It was completely different in any way from anything that I ever played before. So I blamed myself and not the controls.
Later on in the game I saw progression, much more/sooner than could be attributed to me getting used to the controls. So I thought (and still think) it was built in that way.

Speaking of controls. Although I enjoy attributing to the already enormous pile of bodies I am struggling with combat in KCD. I am sure things will change. But I wonder: is it me, or is this built in? I am using left and right mouse button, but I can’t say I have discovered a system in the timing. I mean, I click, and then sooner or later I’ll see a punch/strike on the screen. It feels a bit I am just punching/striking around like a maniac, punching/striking whenever, whatever, right or left, as soon as I see a red part in the star. Same with F, kicking.
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August 16th, 2018, 10:12
Originally Posted by Eye View Post
Well, thanks for searching for more info on this.

But to me it remains a mystery. For I remember clearly in Talberg after a restart returning to a corner next to the guard chamber trying to choke a guard a couple of times in different places.
I thought I returned using ‘Continue’ but maybe it was a manual load? If it was, it definitely was not a manual save, I did not use that schnaps.
It is hard to remember because now my memory is filled with delightful uncomplicated saves with and without restarting the game.
You can manually save by sleeping as well Maybe that was it?

Maybe you or someone could fiddle with it next time you are playing? In case you are still curious that is, of course. I know I am - but not that much that I’ll delete that mod, restart the game, walk to a different position, save, check, etc.
Well, I'm 99% certain it works as I'm saying - but sure, I'll check it out next time I play. It's easy because the save on exit game is marked with a red color - which is probably to indicate it's not permanent. So, if that game is gone after loading it up - then we'll know

Gothic 2 and the awkward control scheme. It was my first RPG ever (without knowing this was an RPG, to me it was just ‘a’ game when I started playing it). It was completely different in any way from anything that I ever played before. So I blamed myself and not the controls.
Later on in the game I saw progression, much more/sooner than could be attributed to me getting used to the controls. So I thought (and still think) it was built in that way.
Oh, Gothic 2 had much better controls than the first Gothic. They changed the default scheme to something resembling other games of similar genres.

Well, when I say "better" - I really mean much more aligned with the norm.

Once you got used to the Gothic controls, they weren't bad at all. We just weren't used to it, that's all.

I seem to recall the control scheme being the result of Gothic originally being intended for consoles (which never happened). I'm not 100% sure about that, though.

Speaking of controls. Although I enjoy attributing to the already enormous pile of bodies I am struggling with combat in KCD. I am sure things will change. But I wonder: is it me, or is this built in? I am using left and right mouse button, but I can’t say I have discovered a system in the timing. I mean, I click, and then sooner or later I’ll see a punch/strike on the screen. I feel a bit as if I am just punching/striking around like a maniac, punching/striking whenever, whatever, right or left, as soon as I see a red part in the star. Same with F, kicking.
I mostly avoided melee combat and went for Archery. That's what I always do when I get the chance

So, most of my melee combat was during training in the tutorial - and the later session with Bernhard (I think that's his name).

To me, the combat made a lot of sense - you just need to time things right. The dot in the center of the crosshair will tell you when to dodge or block with efficiency.

Have you had the training with Bernhard? If not, you should definitely do that ASAP - as that's when the melee combat clicked with me.

I actually found combat very well done overall - and probably the most satisfying melee combat system of any first-person game I've ever played.

But I always go for stealth and ranged stuff. I'm a sneaky bastard in that way - and I'd just as soon avoid fighting altogether - if I can.
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August 16th, 2018, 10:21
Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
You can manually save by sleeping as well Maybe that was it?
Smile. You try sleeping in the corner next to the guard chamber!
Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
Well, I'm 99% certain it works as I'm saying - but sure, I'll check it out next time I play. It's easy because the save on exit game is marked with a red color - which is probably to indicate it's not permanent. So, if that game is gone after loading it up - then we'll know
Yes, yes, yes!
Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
Oh, Gothic 2 had much better controls than the first Gothic. They changed the default scheme to something resembling other games of similar genres.

Well, when I say "better" - I really mean much more aligned with the norm.

Once you got used to the Gothic controls, they weren't bad at all. We just weren't used to it, that's all.

I seem to recall the control scheme being the result of Gothic originally being intended for consoles (which never happened). I'm not 100% sure about that, though.



I mostly avoided melee combat and went for Archery. That's what I always do when I get the chance
Funny as it may sound, but: me too!

Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
So, most of my melee combat was during training in the tutorial - and the later session with Bernhard (I think that's his name).

To me, the combat made a lot of sense - you just need to time things right. The dot in the center of the crosshair will tell you when to dodge or block with efficiency.

Have you had the training with Bernhard? If not, you should definitely do that ASAP - as that's when the melee combat clicked with me.
Nope, haven’t had any training yet. After the looooooong intro I am finally in Rattay. Busy doing my first chore from the miller, but basically wandering around. Lovely place for a holiday.

Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
I actually found combat very well done overall - and probably the most satisfying melee combat system of any first-person game I've ever played.

But I always go for stealth and ranged stuff. I'm a sneaky bastard in that way - and I'd just as soon avoid fighting altogether - if I can.
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August 16th, 2018, 10:27
Originally Posted by Eye View Post
Smile. You try sleeping in the corner next to the guard chamber!
Thanks, but no thanks

Yes, yes, yes!
Happy to be of service!

Funny as it may sound, but: me too!
Sounds very wise, I must say. Then again, most people do when they agree with me about something

Nope. After the looooooong intro I am finally in Rattay. Busy doing my first chore from the miller, but basically wandering around. Lovely place for a holiday.
Hehe, at least you can save legitimately now in that bed you woke up in

I actually skipped most of the miller stuff - except the very first task. Once you get to the city proper, things start happening.

Just wait until you go on a hunt with your first noble

I literally spent 10-15 arrows trying to hit my first rabbit 10 feet away from me.

But the really cool thing about it is that I ended up being able to hit most rabbits in one or two shots - at a greater distance.

It's SO rare that games ask you to improve your real-life skills and then reward you appropriately.
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August 16th, 2018, 14:15
I found out that 1. a ‘save on exit’ implies that you can not do a manual load. You HAVE to choose ‘continue’, and 2. that I am capable of doing that multiple times:

I stopped last night and did not do a manual save but a ‘save on exit’.
When starting this afternoon I first chose ‘continue’, and it got me right where I stopped last night.
Then I remembered our conversation, so I stopped again, this time ‘quit’, so not ‘save & quit’, and when I started again I chose ‘load game’, but the ‘save on exit’ was not there. You simply can not choose it. So I chose ‘continue’ again, and it got me right back where I stopped last night, even though I had already loaded it one more time this afternoon.

So it appears nothing gets deleted on my system. And seeing my previous experience with the corner in Talmberg, I doubt this can be blamed on the mod.

Not being able to choose it from the ‘load’ menu within the game does not mean it is not there. In fact it is: in C:\Users\User Name\Saved Games\kingdomecome\saves
My manual saves are there: several savexx.whs. Other saves: several autosavexxx.whs, several permanentxxx.whs and one exit.whs. And that last file, exit.whs is my last ‘save on exit’.
Now I backed up these saves, before AND after using the mod in the same directory, so I am not quite sure if the mod is making any difference apart from getting many more saves.
In my working directory there is also just one exit.whs, just like in the backup directory, but the two exit.whs differ, they have a different time. The exit.whs in my working directory corresponds with the time I stopped last night, which is later than the backup time.

In my opinion ‘save on exit’ will get you one file, exit.whs, which will be there, always, as long as you do not overwrite it with another ‘save & quit’. Loading it is only possible by choosing ‘continue’ and that action does not delete it.

I await your verdict. When you start replaying of course.
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August 16th, 2018, 17:32
Originally Posted by Eye View Post
I found out that 1. a ‘save on exit’ implies that you can not do a manual load. You HAVE to choose ‘continue’, and 2. that I am capable of doing that multiple times:

I stopped last night and did not do a manual save but a ‘save on exit’.
When starting this afternoon I first chose ‘continue’, and it got me right where I stopped last night.
Then I remembered our conversation, so I stopped again, this time ‘quit’, so not ‘save & quit’, and when I started again I chose ‘load game’, but the ‘save on exit’ was not there. You simply can not choose it. So I chose ‘continue’ again, and it got me right back where I stopped last night, even though I had already loaded it one more time this afternoon.

So it appears nothing gets deleted on my system. And seeing my previous experience with the corner in Talmberg, I doubt this can be blamed on the mod.

Not being able to choose it from the ‘load’ menu within the game does not mean it is not there. In fact it is: in C:\Users\User Name\Saved Games\kingdomecome\saves
My manual saves are there: several savexx.whs. Other saves: several autosavexxx.whs, several permanentxxx.whs and one exit.whs. And that last file, exit.whs is my last ‘save on exit’.
Now I backed up these saves, before AND after using the mod in the same directory, so I am not quite sure if the mod is making any difference apart from getting many more saves.
In my working directory there is also just one exit.whs, just like in the backup directory, but the two exit.whs differ, they have a different time. The exit.whs in my working directory corresponds with the time I stopped last night, which is later than the backup time.

In my opinion ‘save on exit’ will get you one file, exit.whs, which will be there, always, as long as you do not overwrite it with another ‘save & quit’. Loading it is only possible by choosing ‘continue’ and that action does not delete it.

I await your verdict. When you start replaying of course.
Hehe, I trust you - so no need for my verdict

I think what's happening is an oversight on behalf of the developers - and is probably counter to the intention, seeing as how you can't manually load your save game.

According to multiple people, the game is deleted upon loading - but I guess the "Continue" option does something different - which is stupid unless it's a bug. So, the save game is perhaps deleted from the list - but obviously not from existence.

In any case, I stand corrected that what you were doing wasn't actually possible and I apologize for claiming otherwise!
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August 16th, 2018, 21:07
It's definitely a quirky game in some ways. I'm probably going to wait for at least one more patch before really diving in.
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August 16th, 2018, 21:55
Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
Hehe, I trust you - so no need for my verdict

I think what's happening is an oversight on behalf of the developers - and is probably counter to the intention, seeing as how you can't manually load your save game.

According to multiple people, the game is deleted upon loading - but I guess the "Continue" option does something different - which is stupid unless it's a bug. So, the save game is perhaps deleted from the list - but obviously not from existence.

In any case, I stand corrected that what you were doing wasn't actually possible and I apologize for claiming otherwise!
O gosh, no need for an apology, no need at all. I thought you and I were working together, to solve a mystery, weren’t we?
I think you and I are a great team!
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August 16th, 2018, 21:59
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
It's definitely a quirky game in some ways. I'm probably going to wait for at least one more patch before really diving in.
I am curious, where are you? Which town have you reached? I am now in Rattay. Just learned archery, I suck.

But I am enjoying the game today, more than I did. Nothing quirky - yet. What is annoying to you that needs patching?
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August 16th, 2018, 22:29
Originally Posted by Eye View Post
I am curious, where are you? Which town have you reached? I am now in Rattay. Just learned archery, I suck.

But I am enjoying the game today, more than I did. Nothing quirky - yet. What is annoying to you that needs patching?
I've yet to advance the prologue, but even with the short amount of time I've spent with it, I can see both the immense potential and the need for further refinement.

I encountered several minor bugs within the first hour of playing. The most annoying thing though by far is the settings reset glitch that Darth made me aware of. It's not a deal-breaker on its own, but I'd rather wait just a little longer and see what's going to be included/fixed in the next update.

I hear it was a lot worse at release with both bugs and performance, so I think it's already come a long way. It's an amazing game considering it's their first release. Yet another similarity between them and Piranha Bytes.

I was planning on starting over anyways. My first start was just a test run to get a taste of it and check performance. I'm probably going to play on hardcore but with a mod or two because I'm not sure I like everything the hardcore mode does.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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August 17th, 2018, 14:02
IMO you should avoid mods till you finish the game at least once. Yes, it was much worse on release.

When you restart keep in mind what we said dozens of pages ago. No lollygagging till you get your own horse. Permanent one, not the temporary which will leave.
Folow the main story and when you finally get a mount to use for "fastmoving" and as a mule, only then start puting your nose everywhere it doesn't belong.
--
Toka Koka
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Original Sin 1 & 2 Donor

#139

Join Date: Apr 2009
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August 20th, 2018, 13:56
So, Eye - have you played some more and are you still disliking it?

BTW, it turns out that you don't even have to use "continue" to load the Exit Save. It's there even when you just use the normal Load option.

Really odd, actually - but no biggie.
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#140

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