Cyberpunk 2077 - Interviews on Design

Alrik Fassbauer said:
I've been reading that snipped from news article at the beginning of this thread, and I sense something I don't quite like : People will want to look "cool" throughout this game. I bet there'll be myriabnds of character builds almost only relying on the "cool" stat. I mean, being "cool" is something desired in RL, like with gangsta rappers. Now, this "cool" stat might turn everyone into a gangsta rapper within that game, I think. There'll be little differfence, and those trying out something different will be called "uncool" in forums, a twist on the RL meaning of the word.

I can see it : Hordes of "badass looking" = "cool" characters …
Click to expand...

Any "gangsta rapper" would probably have a good laugh about people who dress "cool" in this game. :biggrin:

From what little we know about the game, the "cool" stat is not about dressing the right way. We do not even know whether clothes raise the stat, or whether there are interactions between clothing and the stat.

Finally, if they have any kind of balance in the game, going all "cool" will probably mean that your character lacks other qualities.
 
Joined
May 18, 2012
Messages
2,315
It's not charisma. Pondsmith and ruleset explains it clearly...how you carry yourself, withstand mental ( and physical) pressure, how others automatically perceive you.

To put it simply:

Charisma: Dandelion
Cool: Snake Plissken
 
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Messages
3,898
Location
Croatia
Yeah, because cool people aren’t charismatic, right? ;)

No one said it’s identical, but it’s still the CP version of the same thing. Like Charisma, it factors into combat and social interactions both.

It’s been a long time since I played the PnP game, but it’s definitely a stat with similar effects.
 
Have to disagree. Snake is charismatic and Dandelion's coo!
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
23,459
Darth Tagnan said:
Yeah, because cool people aren’t charismatic, right? ;)

No one said it’s identical, but it’s still the CP version of the same thing.
Click to expand...

Yes actually, cool people ( as described in the setting) can be very uncharismatic ( there are absolutely characters like this in the lore). Cool is more introverted, without effort, charisma is more "outward", being socially adept.

There are similarities with DnD charisma, but context is hugely different. If DnD had something similar it would be closer to mix of willpower/reputation.
 
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Messages
3,898
Location
Croatia
BoboTheMighty said:
Yes actually, cool people ( as described in the setting) can be very uncharismatic ( there are absolutely characters like this in the lore). Cool is more introverted, without effort, charisma is more "outward", being socially adept.
Click to expand...

That's an interesting notion. I've never met a cool person that wasn't charismatic.

In my opinion, cool is one kind of charisma. Snake, as you came up with as an example is extremely charismatic - in my opinion.

But we're arguing semantics.

As I said, I'm not saying Cool = Charisma. I'm saying it's a similar concept in terms of being a personality stat - but in a different system and obviously with different rules.

There are similarities with DnD charisma, but context is hugely different. If DnD had something similar it would be closer to mix of willpower/reputation.
Click to expand...

If you think it's hugely different, then so be it. To me, it's the same kind of stat - but as I said, it's more elaborate - because it factors into certain things in combat in a more direct way.

Charisma affects the power of spells and such in D&D - which is a somewhat abstract way of handling it, and Cyberpunk doesn't have magic.

IIRC, Cyberpunk also had an "attractive" stat of some kind - like the old AD&D had "Comeliness".

Charisma was a partial replacement for Comeliness - so it's also about how attractive you are, to some degree.

But I've played so many PnP systems - and thousands of games.

To me, the differences get smaller the more I see similar patterns.

What I really care about is what CDPR does with this stat in terms of interesting choices and consequences.

I really couldn't care less what they call their personality stat - so long as it's relevant to the gameplay.
 
Well, I interpreted the "cool factor" rather as something extrovert, like a look.
But yes, it is also said there it's something about "holding oneself together", too.
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
21,950
Location
Old Europe
As a case study, please everyone watch the great movie "Be Cool".

I am joking.
 
Joined
May 18, 2012
Messages
2,315
Yeah, that's why I dislike it. ;) I know, not a very original reason.
 
Joined
May 18, 2012
Messages
2,315
Darth Tagnan said:
That's an interesting notion. I've never met a cool person that wasn't charismatic.

In my opinion, cool is one kind of charisma. Snake, as you came up with as an example is extremely charismatic - in my opinion.

But we're arguing semantics.

As I said, I'm not saying Cool = Charisma. I'm saying it's a similar concept in terms of being a personality stat - but in a different system and obviously with different rules.



If you think it's hugely different, then so be it. To me, it's the same kind of stat - but as I said, it's more elaborate - because it factors into certain things in combat in a more direct way.

Charisma affects the power of spells and such in D&D - which is a somewhat abstract way of handling it, and Cyberpunk doesn't have magic.

IIRC, Cyberpunk also had an "attractive" stat of some kind - like the old AD&D had "Comeliness".

Charisma was a partial replacement for Comeliness - so it's also about how attractive you are, to some degree.

But I've played so many PnP systems - and thousands of games.

To me, the differences get smaller the more I see similar patterns.

What I really care about is what CDPR does with this stat in terms of interesting choices and consequences.

I really couldn't care less what they call their personality stat - so long as it's relevant to the gameplay.
Click to expand...

That's certainly something that I don't think most would agree with. I think you're confusing/automatically equating strong personality with "charisma".
Former can be gained through isolation and hardship, and still be uncharismatic as fuck ( Zahratustra)
Or better example, character extremely similar to Plissken: John Rambo.

"High cool"? Absolutely. Goes to war with half the country, kicks their asses, never makes a mistake. But not exactly what you'd describe as "charismatic"..in fact, whole thing breaks out, because he unnerves everyone around him. Ask the sheriff here. ;)



Plenty of characters from 2020, were inspired by these type of "80's anti-heroes", especially with solo's.

And DnD paladins are synonymous with charisma: leadership, inspiring, diplomacy/persuasion.

This is similar to how Intellect is split into Wisdom ( common sense, practical judgement) and Intelligence ( abstract, logical, etc). They have a common "base", but practical application can be very different. ( NWN was hilarious when playing as High WIS/Low INT character)
 
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Messages
3,898
Location
Croatia
@BoboTheMighty;

I don't think you understand what I mean by a personality stat and what I mean when I repeat that I'm not saying Cool = Charisma.

For the third time - and for the sake of clarity: Yes, Bobo, we agree that the Cool stat is not identical to the Charisma stat.

If it makes you feel better, let's say it's more like Willpower - or that Empathy in CP2020 is more like Charisma.

All are still personality stats - and not physical stats, which is actually what I originally meant as a way to confer to Alrik the kind of thing it was supposed to be. Maybe I should have said "sort of like Charisma" instead of "Like Charisma, but more elaborate" - but I didn't predict a semantic discussion on this level for such a small oversight.

That said, Cool does share some aspects of Charisma - because it does impact how people respond to you based on, well, your charisma of being a "cool bad-ass" dude.

But that's just my perception, clearly.

As for our opinions of charisma as a general concept, that's interesting - but perhaps not appropriate to bog down this thread with.

I maintain that cool is one kind of charisma - and I happen to think 80s action heroes were highly charismatic. In fact, I'd argue that's a big reason they were so popular - and why people enjoyed their characters so much. As for Rambo, I'm not sure "cool" is the first word that comes to mind with him - but then again, he changed personality quite a bit throughout the movies. In the first movie, he was more like lost and desperate. In the following movies, you could argue he was cool - and I definitely think he had a strong charisma.

Maybe you're thinking of "pleasant" or "charming" - or something along those lines, which would be other kinds of charisma.

Usually, charisma is something that inspires people or draws them towards those who have it. Cool can definitely be something that inspires confidence or makes you want to be with someone.

In fact I'm confused why anyone would argue against that.

But, as I said, let's take it to another thread if you want to go on.

For my part, I'm absolutely fine with agreeing to disagree :)

What do you say?
 
Last edited:
Darth Tagnan said:
In the following movies, you could argue he was cool - and I definitely think he had a strong charisma.
Click to expand...
Each to its own of course but while I could give Rambo many different epithets (like "neurotic", "unstable" or "unbalanced" for example), personally I certainly wouldn't call him "charismatic".
 
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
4,721
zahratustra said:
Each to its own of course but while I could give Rambo many different epithets (like "neurotic", "unstable" or "unbalanced" for example), personally I certainly wouldn't call him "charismatic".
Click to expand...

That's fair enough. Personally, I found him very appealing and almost charming in his quiet moments - when he was being protective of people, for instance. Like some of the scenes with the women he met.

I specifically remember a scene in First Blood - in one of the very first scenes, he had this charming way of talking about his friend before he's told he died of cancer.

Here, I found it:



To me, the way he's so warm and gentle as he's asking about his friend and talking about how big he is and so forth - is the very definition of charming and subtly charismatic.

I just want to give that man a hug, really.

He had a tender side and a very empathic side - that was obviously corrupted during his time in Vietnam.

But ok, if that's not charismatic in any way to others, that's fair enough.
 
Oh I agree that on occasions he was a nice guy but, as series progressed, there was less and less of a nice guy and more and more of the neurotic one.
 
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
4,721
zahratustra said:
Oh I agree that on occasions he was a nice guy but, as series progressed, there was less and less of a nice guy and more and more of the neurotic one.
Click to expand...

You might well be right, I don't remember much of the last ones :)

Well, except that they were awful.
 
BoboTheMighty said:
That's certainly something that I don't think most would agree with. I think you're confusing/automatically equating strong personality with "charisma".
Former can be gained through isolation and hardship, and still be uncharismatic as fuck ( Zahratustra)
Click to expand...

Einstein, maybe ? Or even Hawking ?
Just look at that "tongue picture" of Einstein - whereas psychologists have argued that this might be a child's reaction - an reaction that was typical for a child hundreds of years ago, but not today.
Or Dr. Emmet Brown. :lol:

Darth Tagnan said:
I maintain that cool is one kind of charisma - and I happen to think 80s action heroes were highly charismatic. In fact, I'd argue that's a big reason they were so popular - and why people enjoyed their characters so much.
Click to expand...


The 80s TV series "Magnum" (which I even as a teenager called "Magnum The Magician") suddenly came to my memory - and the character of Higgins.
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
21,950
Location
Old Europe
I also see cool and charismatic overlapping. Not always of course but there is a definite synergy there, especially when considering that often times other people tend to like, respect, follow, or hold in some sense of awe the really cool people. They have a certain type of strong personality (i.e. force of personality, strength of character and will) that can influence others - which is part of charisma. Charisma isn't all about looking pretty/handsome or just being a great leader. Its about having a strong presence that in some way causes people to notice the person and influences others - and that can be introverted or extroverted. Introverted is often a more indirect influence while the extroverted is a more direct influence. They are not exactly the same but there is overlap between them.
 
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
3,971
Location
NH
Darth Tagnan said:
@BoboTheMighty;

I don't think you understand what I mean by a personality stat and what I mean when I repeat that I'm not saying Cool = Charisma.

For the third time - and for the sake of clarity: Yes, Bobo, we agree that the Cool stat is not identical to the Charisma stat.

If it makes you feel better, let's say it's more like Willpower - or that Empathy in CP2020 is more like Charisma.

All are still personality stats - and not physical stats, which is actually what I originally meant as a way to confer to Alrik the kind of thing it was supposed to be. Maybe I should have said "sort of like Charisma" instead of "Like Charisma, but more elaborate" - but I didn't predict a semantic discussion on this level for such a small oversight.

That said, Cool does share some aspects of Charisma - because it does impact how people respond to you based on, well, your charisma of being a "cool bad-ass" dude.

But that's just my perception, clearly.

As for our opinions of charisma as a general concept, that's interesting - but perhaps not appropriate to bog down this thread with.

I maintain that cool is one kind of charisma - and I happen to think 80s action heroes were highly charismatic. In fact, I'd argue that's a big reason they were so popular - and why people enjoyed their characters so much. As for Rambo, I'm not sure "cool" is the first word that comes to mind with him - but then again, he changed personality quite a bit throughout the movies. In the first movie, he was more like lost and desperate. In the following movies, you could argue he was cool - and I definitely think he had a strong charisma.

Maybe you're thinking of "pleasant" or "charming" - or something along those lines, which would be other kinds of charisma.

Usually, charisma is something that inspires people or draws them towards those who have it. Cool can definitely be something that inspires confidence or makes you want to be with someone.

In fact I'm confused why anyone would argue against that.

But, as I said, let's take it to another thread if you want to go on.

For my part, I'm absolutely fine with agreeing to disagree :)

What do you say?
Click to expand...

That's common sense. RPG stats are approximation of char attributes, but the lines are more "blurred" with mental/personality aspect. And most people in real life are not so simply classified by them.
Like I said, Wisdom and Intelligence are perfect example here.

But in context of 2020/how it was inspired, there are more than subtle differences between the two.
Character with high charisma would break under torture, High Cool would completely shrug it off.
2020 as a setting was designed for these types of situations, that put the pressure on you, showing what's under the skin of your character.

From what I hear, there was one they clearly showed in the demo, typical, intense "Mexican stand-off", everyone holding gun at another, tempers flying and things quickly escalating out of control.

Pondsmith explains it clearly here:

"Most gun fights end because someone loses it and can't keep it together,” Pondsmith said, which he learned from speaking with a friend in the Rangers. “I wanted to get that sense of you project that you're together, you can keep it together.”

He went on to explain that “everything you've got is a statement,” and that while style is still important, how you carry yourself is too. “You’re wearing your big-ass armored jacket and you’re carrying your big-ass weapons, but it’s not just that. It’s that you looked badass doing it, and that people give you some respect on the street.”

“
I’m sure it won’t be long after release before we see an all Cool speedrun.

Pondsmith also said that Cool isn’t just the Cyberpunk version of the more traditional RPG stat Charisma. “You can have a tremendous amount of cool and have very little charisma,” Pondsmith explained. Basically, there’s a difference between talking your way out of situations and just throwing off a vibe that commands respect".

Funny thing is, I know quite a few people like this, amateur/and a few pro K1/MMA fighters.

Not the type most would describe as "charismatic", but you get a clear sense of more "quiet" confidence, "you don't to want to fuck with me", air around them.

Feodor is 10 on both Cool and Charisma though. :cool:
 
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Messages
3,898
Location
Croatia
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom