Dragon Age - PC Delayed

Dhruin said:

No. Can I just press "m" to bring up the map like every other CRPG? "J" for the journal, like every other?

It's not terrible but it isn't a shining example.

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Firstly, it was related directly to the technical aspects of the game. It looks great and performs well on both platforms.

Your examples are valid, though, but honestly I think they're so insignificant as to hardly be worth mentioning. Overall - it's definitely one of the best interfaces I've seen in a platform neutral game. The best? Probably not - but it's up there.

Doesn't mean I like the game all that much, but that's another story.

We'll have to disagree, then. I don't see it as "up there" at all.

This is highly likely to be the reason why. I read somewhere that Bioware had to let some people go because of those earlier 10% cuts, and that they were the Doctors first lay-offs. If that's true that deserves some kudos IMO, and I hope they don't have to lose any more people with this extra 1% announced.

Sometimes things happen that can't be dictated by what we've said in the past, and what was true then may not be now. I think when you PR solid statements like 'PC exclusive' you're asking for trouble, but that doesn't mean it was a lie at that time. It certainly isn't the case now and hopefully it won't be consolfied.

Dhruin said:

We'll have to disagree, then. I don't see it as "up there" at all.

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No problem

No surprises here. I have been predicting that this would happen ever since Jade Empire came out. People are blaming EA, but the truth is that Bioware became a console developer with Kotor.

Here's another prediction. Up until now, the PR for this game has focused largely on how Bioware is returning to its BG roots. This message is going to disappear in the coming months, and it's going to be replaced with an entirely console-centric message about how much effort they have put into adapting the Baldurs Gate experience to the consoles to bring it to a new generation of gamers. Up until now, I was pretty impressed by the PR efforts for this game.

Brother None said:

I'm not saying it's unreasonable to call 'em on that, I'm saying it's a bit odd to start worrying about the interface of the game on PC just because it has been delayed so the releases coincide. It's not like it's been delayed so they can mess with the interface and turn it from what they have into a really bad consolitis interface, just to bug us.

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No, but they might be taking this time to figure out how to gimp the game so that it will be playable on a console. The game that they have shown off up to this point is so mouse&keyboard-based that it would be practically unplayable on an XBox 360 or a PS3. It wouldn't surprise me if 9 months from now the game comes out and it plays significantly different from the gameplay videos that we have seen so far.

Come to think of it, I don't think we've seen much of the interface anyways, besides the main screenshots that show the NWN style camera and the hotkey buttons (at least I haven't). What about the inventory? Does it have a paper doll, drag-and-drop, and the other features that used to be standard in PC RPGs, or is it a crappy console-style layered menu shit? What about the journal system?

doctor_kaz said:

No, but they might be taking this time to figure out how to gimp the game so that it will be playable on a console. The game that they have shown off up to this point is so mouse&keyboard-based that it would be practically unplayable on an XBox 360 or a PS3. It wouldn't surprise me if 9 months from now the game comes out and it plays significantly different from the gameplay videos that we have seen so far.

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I'd say that depends on what point in development they're at. If indeed the interface is mostly done for PC and doesn't fit console well, a likely scenario, then the logical action would be to focus resources on fitting it to console. It would be completely illogical to then go back apply that same refitting to the PC.

So unless the interface design is in very early stages, which seems unlikely, I really don't see the logic of what you're saying. Retro-fitting is just extra costs, why would they do it?

DArtagnan said:

A brighter future wouldn't be in sight if we stared directly into the sun - and yet the latter seems preferable to me.
Then again, I always was a bit weird.
Good morning

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Wow, that's one bitter post... but I find myself completely agreeing with your assessment. Hollywood + Gaming = refuse

Time to investigate some new hobbies or channel more energy into some old ones (like reading).

Cabel Blacke said:

Wow, that's one bitter post... but I find myself completely agreeing with your assessment. Hollywood + Gaming = refuse

Time to investigate some new hobbies or channel more energy into some old ones (like reading).

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It was just my bit of morning sunshine

Anyway, it's not all bad. But there's really no escaping that people like us are never going to have top tier developers in our corner again. That era ended sometime during the late 90s.

We're going to have to contend with dumbed down AAA titles whenever there's no indie or middle-market title around to satiate our lust for quality game design.

I'm looking forward to Drakensang, Risen and the Aliens CRPG myself. They should be middle-market enough to have their souls reasonably intact.

Bioware sucks

BioWare rules!

I just hope they use the extra time to really work out all the bugs. I'm at a point where I won't even install a game until it's been out for 6 months or so. I've got SoZ sitting on my desk right now. I'd like to play it, but last I checked there were still issues with it breaking MotB, which I'm still playing.

If the delay is soley to have a simultaneous release, then it means the game is basically done anyway, so I wouldn't worry about the interface. Through 80-90% of the development of this game the PC was the lead/only platform.

The delay is annoying, if completely understandable, but I don't see any reason for consolitis hysteria. All we can do is judge the final product anyway, we'll probably never know how much the EA buyout and switch to simultaneous release on consoles really affected the development.

About the interface:
They already stated several months ago that the interface would be the crappy list-inventory they've been using for their latest games. I guess it's just easier than making two different interfaces for the pc and consoles. That doesn't make the list inventory suck less though...

Hard for me to not point and shout 'consolitis' when they originally said it was going to be a PC exclusive, then they say it's going to be for consoles too, but PC first! and now PC is delayed because of consoles (and believe me, that is the real reason for the delay). Bioware should stop saying stuff if they're not going to back it up!
And to think I pre-ordered the game just 2 days ago

Lemonhead said:

About the interface:
They already stated several months ago that the interface would be the crappy list-inventory they've been using for their latest games. I guess it's just easier than making two different interfaces for the pc and consoles. That doesn't make the list inventory suck less though...

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So much for getting back to those BG roots. They can't even be bothered to put an interface into the game that matches the efficiency of what they made over 10 years ago?

Hmm, seems that the official thread regarding the delay is also in an uproar. 43 pages so far. But I guess that in a couple of days of venting their frustration most people will just go back to waiting for it. Not much they can do, except speak with their wallets.

DArtagnan said:

It was just my bit of morning sunshine
I'm looking forward to Drakensang, Risen and the Aliens CRPG myself. They should be middle-market enough to have their souls reasonably intact.

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Yeah, sans the occasional buggy release, Obsidian seems to be the one US company left carrying the "hard-core" banner into the fray. In Europe and Asia, the hard-core market is still fairly strong, but even there the tendency for "bigger is better" is rearing its ugly head.

This genre (at least the post-SSI version that arose in the early 90s) was built on the backs of quality RPG gameplay with quality story thrown in as well for the truly great games, such as BG2 and Planescape. I'm one of those who doesn't believe games should be movies. Games are about gameplay and are interactive entertainment. In that way, they are different (and, IMHO superior) to movies, which is a strictly passive endeavor.

As games continue this drive towards "legitimacy" that developers crave--where their games are spoken of in the same hushed tones as movies and books--they lose the thing that made them great in the first place: deep, immersive gameplay.

However, there are plenty of us out there who crave that deep experience and someone will rise up to scratch our collective itch. I guess the question is: how many and does that equate to enough $$ to make it worth it.(?)

danutz_plusplus said:

This is a very big bummer imo.
First they start by saying Dragon Age, PC exclusive.
Then we find out that a console version is also planned, but the PC still has priority.
Then the PC version gets delayed until the console versions are also ready, which by the short delay, of just a couple of months, seems that the console versions were in development for quite some time.
Bummer.

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Nice timeline and train of thoughts, but you're missing the conclusion. You'll see, DA will end up being a crappy console port eventually.

This is Bioware we are talking about. When was the last time they made a PC game?

Dhruin said:

No. Can I just press "m" to bring up the map like every other CRPG? "J" for the journal, like every other?

It's not terrible but it isn't a shining example.

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Seriously? Fallout 3 had one of the overall crappiest interfaces I've ever seen in a game. Not only did it reek of console-oriented compromise, but even for a console it was kludgy. How many steps am I supposed to take to look at my weapons inventory?

Nevertheless, I wouldn't get angry at console users. They're always going to have a substandard experience in RPGs. A month after the game is released, all the little oversights by Bioware will be being addressed by modders, as well as the complete catastrophes (fingers crossed there won't be any of those).