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August 2nd, 2018, 18:41
I think the new doom had some nice layouts and interesting design points. Nothing totally new but new for doom
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August 2nd, 2018, 21:03
Didn't play the new doom as I am not a fan of spawning enemy waves. For me the "static" mob placement is the better design. Same story with Shadow Warrior. But I guess that's personal taste.
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August 2nd, 2018, 22:44
Steam has a boardgame deal weekend:
https://store.steampowered.com/sale/…games_weekend/

I used to play the odd boardgame (back when I lived in a city close to a lot of friends).
Any games in that list that people can recommend?
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August 3rd, 2018, 00:02
Any of them actually recommended ?

Originally Posted by Shagnak View Post
Steam has a boardgame deal weekend:
https://store.steampowered.com/sale/…games_weekend/

I used to play the odd boardgame (back when I lived in a city close to a lot of friends).
Any games in that list that people can recommend?
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August 3rd, 2018, 02:16
Endless Legend and Endless Space 2 are free to play this weekend, if you're craving some 4X goodness.
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August 3rd, 2018, 02:21
Ah well that DOOM deal on GMG expired.
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August 3rd, 2018, 08:06
Originally Posted by Shagnak View Post
I used to play the odd boardgame (back when I lived in a city close to a lot of friends).
Any games in that list that people can recommend?
Don't know any of them, but Tabletop Simulator seems like an obvious pick, as it lets you simulate actual board games on a virtual table in a virtual man cave, and there seem to be conversions of a lot of board games via the steam workshop like Carcassonne.
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August 3rd, 2018, 09:13
Originally Posted by Kordanor View Post
Didn't play the new doom as I am not a fan of spawning enemy waves. For me the "static" mob placement is the better design. Same story with Shadow Warrior. But I guess that's personal taste.
If you didn't play the new DOOM (or the old dooms) you can hardly call yourself a gamer.

Static, visible mob placement is predictable. Predictable is easy. If you like your games to be predictable and easy then I can see why you think tricking the player into surprise ambushes and traps is bad design for you, but objectively this is what interesting level design is all about.

The spawn points ARE static. You could just think of them as invisible until activated. DOOM doesn't randomly spawn "waves" of monsters!! It's all very carefully planned.

I've made my own DOOM levels for the old and new Doom. From the point of view of a level designer, like me, I think they did an excellent job. Far better than I expected.

I guess your perspective is more that of a Youtuber than a gamer or designer? Why don't you go stream some Fortnite? That's where the money is. Not reviews in German.

edit: I think DOOM3 went overboard with spawning monsters behind you in the dark because it became predictible, but new DOOM is far better than DOOM3.

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Last edited by SirJames; August 3rd, 2018 at 09:29.
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August 3rd, 2018, 09:30
Where is this hostility coming from?

And why do you think you need to like spawning enemy waves which were made popular by games like serious sam in order to call yourself a "gamer"?

Ofc I played the old Doom, and as I mentioned I prefered that as it had old school level design. Like I liked the old Wolfenstein 3D, Shadow Warrior, Corridor 7, Blake Stone, Duke Nukem 3D, Heretic and so on.

Shooters of this Day and Age, starting with Seriours Sam, Painkiller, but also the newer Shadow Warriors and Doom had a shift in game design, where you enter an area, waves of enemies spawn, until you kill everything, you proceed to the next room, waves of enemies spawn and so on.
I can see why this can have it's advantages in building pressure on the player within these waves. But I personally don't like this design and I would say that it's the biggest difference between old school shooters and current schooters which say that they are old school shooters. (Shooters like COD and so on are a completely different story though and completely out of this comparison).
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August 3rd, 2018, 09:40
Originally Posted by SirJames View Post

Static, visible mob placement is predictable. Predictable is easy. If you like your games to be predictable and easy then I can see why you think tricking the player into surprise ambushes and traps is bad design for you, but objectively this is what interesting level design is all about.
I don't agree with this. I really enjoyed the new Doom, but the one thing I thought they could have improved was the creature placement. My favourite bits of the originals where those levels where they did something really challenging with the enemy placements - the level with the rocket guys on the pillars for example, where when you kill them the walls on the outside of the map come down and the mechanical spiders pour in; or the city levels in Doom2 where specific creatures were placed at specific locations to make the most out of their specific attack styles. I think there's a happy medium here where you basically use a bit of both methods, but i hope they improve creature placement in the next one.
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August 3rd, 2018, 09:45
I don't agree that the new Doom is far better than Doom 3. It's debatable if it's better at all, and it's certainly subjective.

Also, while the starting points of the monsters in Doom 1&2 were static, it hardly mattered. As soon as you fired a single bullet within earshot of them, they immediately started hunting you.
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August 3rd, 2018, 10:02
I've played all of those games and more (such as Catacomb Abyss).

I didn't say you have to like spawning enemy waves, I said that's not what DOOM has. Serious Sam is very different to DOOM. I don't remember Painkiller well enough to comment. (Only remember firing a stake through a monster was great fun and it ran really well.)

It takes a long time to make a "room" in a level. If every room was just a few visible monsters then why would the designer bother putting effort into it? The player will just be passing through. It's better if the room is designed like a Quake 3 ARENA map where you will be fighting there long enough to enjoy the map and therefore make it worth putting effort into it's design. It's better if things are not as they first appear - it creates tension. It's absolutely classic DOOM design to have something scary happen when you pick up a key, etc. Triggers spawning monsters is quality DOOM. As for waves, would you rather they all appeared at once? IMO that would be far worse design than an arena battle room, even if it could no longer be called "waves".

I don't mean to be hostile, I'm just passionate about good level design and you thinking the DOOM levels are just mindless spawning of enemy waves, especially when you haven't even played it, is about as untrue as when Darth Tagnan said Dark Souls is pretty much just Diablo. You are mistaken and need to be corrected. For the sake of truth!

I'm sorry I don't have a more cuddly version of the truth. I'm into level design, not public relations.
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August 3rd, 2018, 10:04
To me, Doom 3 is by far the best Doom.

But I was never a big fan of the original, beyond being extremely impressed by the technology back in the early 90s where it was a revolution in that way.

Doom 3, while still not a great game - was much closer to my personal preferences. It was System Shock-light - which is much, much more appealing to me than blasting endless enemies with minimal story elements.

It had a superb atmosphere and stuff like audio journals. Heck it looks pretty good even today.

Too bad it was still just a dumb shooter for the most part.
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August 3rd, 2018, 10:20
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I don't agree that the new Doom is far better than Doom 3. It's debatable if it's better at all, and it's certainly subjective.
Well, everything can be subjective.

Doom3 wasn't bad, but I feel it was more of a tech demo. The whole flashlight thing was tedious to me and it was partly due to hardware limitations that they wanted to keep the "visible" monster count to almost zero so it would run well. That's why I started expecting a monster to spawn from every dark corner and why that's exactly what they did.
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Also, while the starting points of the monsters in Doom 1&2 were static, it hardly mattered. As soon as you fired a single bullet within earshot of them, they immediately started hunting you.
That's a reason why triggered spawns were a good idea. You can fire near the spawn point and it doesn't matter.
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August 3rd, 2018, 10:28
Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
Doom 3, while still not a great game - was much closer to my personal preferences. It was System Shock-light - which is much, much more appealing to me than blasting endless enemies with minimal story elements.
I actually said to a friend, at the time "Wouldn't this engine be perfect for System Shock 3?!"

Mostly because of the interactive monitors. Doom3 was the first game to do this. (Where you can click on the screens)

@Pongo
Yeah, Doom2 was fantastic. It had some really fun maps.
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August 3rd, 2018, 10:42
@Darth Tagnan
You played the new DOOM, right? It has more RPG elements than 3. It has upgrades/progression and they often tie into the secret areas. And it has a LOT of secrets. There's a Classic Doom map to be found on every level. Also, still has the interactive screens which would be great for SysShock3. I fail to see why you'd like 3 more than new?

edit: Didn't think so
Last edited by SirJames; August 3rd, 2018 at 11:58.
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August 3rd, 2018, 12:55
Originally Posted by SirJames View Post
That's a reason why triggered spawns were a good idea. You can fire near the spawn point and it doesn't matter.
How does that make it a good idea? The fact that monsters started hunting for you if they heard you was a cool feature that's missing in a lot of shooters even today.

If you want to continue discussing this though then start a separate thread.
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August 3rd, 2018, 13:31
Folks there is generally no better or worse when it comes to games. Esp well made games. It is a matter of preference. I prefer the new doom over doom 3; that doesn't make it a better game - it just happens to be the one I enjoyed more. You might prefer doom 3 and that is fine. Crise why all the insults and name calling.
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August 3rd, 2018, 16:10
PoE, UBi and weekend sales at GoG.

One hidden gem that I did notice is Incubation (and expansion) - turn based aliens tactics game. This game is hidden under battle isle platinum (which is on sale):

https://www.gog.com/game/battle_isle_platinum
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August 3rd, 2018, 16:13
you can get the might nd magic paxk including six which they say is the best of ema nd judging by youtube vids ive seen it seems even cooler looking than any modernrpg for just a fee bucks.
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