Skyrim - Hi-Res Screens
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DoctorNarrative
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I don't really understand your reply as a rebuttal. You can recognize UE3 games 95% of the time by sight, it's a common thing people talk about. Do you know how many times I have read something to the effect of "ugh come on all UE3 games look the same" or "wow Mirror's Edge is the only UE3 game that looks unique" and crap like that? It's very common.
If you disagree then okay, but it probably just means you're one of the people who doesn't notice, and that's cool. I certainly can though.
In any event, I said in my second or third post I didn't want to debate this and yet somehow I am anyway. Arguing on the internet is a huge waste of time. Suffice it to say I have my doubts that Skyrim will feel or look legitimately different and we shall see when the game launches.
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It's easy to notice UE3 games because they're all basically the same type of game. I doubt you would have recognized the Gamebryo engine when seeing games like Civilization IV or Lego Universe.
DoctorNarrative
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That's the thing though, this is not just "gamebryo." That's the whole point, changing from "gamebryo" means little when it was the Bethesda tech that matters. They are just evolving their technology.
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That had nothing to do with what I said, but …ok. 
As far as Skyrim is concerned, I think there's still a lot we don't know about the engine, and a lot of people seem to be jumping to conclusions. I'm still not convinced that it's a completely new engine as they claim, but I'm not judging it until I've actually played it.
As far as Skyrim is concerned, I think there's still a lot we don't know about the engine, and a lot of people seem to be jumping to conclusions. I'm still not convinced that it's a completely new engine as they claim, but I'm not judging it until I've actually played it.
DoctorNarrative
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That had nothing to do with what I said, but …ok.
As far as Skyrim is concerned, I think there's still a lot we don't know about the engine, and a lot of people seem to be jumping to conclusions. I'm still not convinced that it's a completely new engine as they claim, but I'm not judging it until I've actually played it.
It has to do with it in the sense that UE3 is a complete engine kit, you take the foundation and put your own assets into it. Gamebryo is more of a core technology, the Morrowind and Oblivion "engine" is mostly Bethesda tech on top of Gamebryo core technology. Skyrim, to me, looks like the same tech on top of a new core (if even that).
I'm not speaking in absolutes, like I said it could end up very different, I am just saying the whole "completely new engine" thing is misleading in my opinion. As Todd Howard himself said, it is an evolution of their same technology, not a revolution.
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Well, if " the same engine/tech" for you means a new renderer, new animation system, elimination of several pieces of middleware, and a probably largely rewritten (but of indeed probably evolved from previous versions) content creation system , than I guess we (sort of) agree...
I would still argue though that the main thing we notice here is that it has the same artists working on it.
I would still argue though that the main thing we notice here is that it has the same artists working on it.
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DoctorNarrative
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Have they confirmed all that though? I just keep reading "all new engine!" with no real specifics. The only other comments I have to go on is Todd Howard saying it's the same technology updated like they did from Morrowind to Oblivion.
Anyway, it could be a lot different or a little different, I agree with that. I have been saying "we shall see" from the get-go, which is pretty clearly a statement that it's pretty up in the air and I am making no absolute judgments. I just think it will end up another Morrowind --> Oblivion sort of evolution, rather than being an all new experience.
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bemushroomed
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I really don't agree with that. For the most part the mods for Morrowind, Oblivion and FO arent bug fixing mods, that's a really small fraction of all the mods that exists. Also, mods only work on PC so that argument doesnt really hold up at all. Bethesda has the best / biggest modding community out there because the tools are great to work with and people really like the games and want to continue playing beyond the main story and after they've finished the games.
I agree with that.
Anyone who expected anything different is really naive imo. What kind of evolution do we usually see with games? Is Risen that different from Gothic2 etc etc, i can go on and on…
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GothicGothicness
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I wouldn't say 95% of the time. But if you know what to look for it is pretty easy to recognize UE3 engine games. The main reason for that is that it uses the lighting system to calculate lightning called lightmass. If you know what to look for it is quite easy to distinguish from for example beast ( another system used in many products to calculate the lightning ) that is just one of all the things you could use to find out the engine....
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D
DArtagnan
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..yeah, because that ruleset is so special that no one else could've came up with it (or stolen it and called it something else if they'd wanted to do that)?
Ehm, what?
I'm talking about what they did - and they took the system from Fallout and streamlined it.
That's what I meant by taking from Fallout.
I'm not saying it would have been hard to make a similar system themselves, even though I actually think Bethesda would have found it hard - because they don't seem to understand gameplay very well. At least not how I understand it.
That is something I base on all their other games.
I hope for your sake that it lives up to your expectations
D
DArtagnan
Guest
If that's true, then why is it so easy to distinguish the id engines from the Unreal engines?
Don't leave us wondering…I'm sure you can explain.
I would say because some game engines are more distinct than others.
D
DArtagnan
Guest
Don't leave us wondering…I'm sure you can explain.
I would say because some game engines are more distinct than others.
I think it's about experience, really. There are subtleties in most engines that imprint themselves on the brain of the technically observant gamer. It can be hard to explain off-hand, but if I had two engines running at the same time, I'd be able to explain it by recognising what they're doing.
It's not about being smarter or whatever, but about what you perceive. For instance, my brother has been gaming for more years than I have - and yet he has absolutely no capacity for recognising the finer technical aspects. He just doesn't care. On the other hand, he tends to notice all kinds of story/plot nuances that I completely miss, because I'm not too interested in such subtleties.
So, it's about how your brain works and what it notices. Just like some people are expert at recognising faces, and others at finding their way around - or remembering names.
But, I still can't be sure through screenshots alone - in most cases. I normally need to see a game running a little bit.
But we can agree that some engines are very distinct.
Sure, that makes sense, but there's still a limit to what most people can recognize. My point was that it's easier to recognize any given engine if you've played similar games using that engine (i.e. first-person shooters vs RTS). The Doom 3 engine is pretty hard to miss because it's never been used for anything other than first-person shooters.
Some engines are simply a lot more flexible than others. Anyone who claims they instantly recognized Gamebryo when seeing Lego Universe for the first time is full of shit.
D
DArtagnan
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Sure, that makes sense, but there's still a limit to what most people can recognize. My point was that it's easier to recognize any given engine if you've played similar games using that engine (i.e. first person shooters vs RTS). The Doom 3 engine is pretty hard to miss because it's never been used for anything other than first-person shooters.
Some engines are simply a lot more flexible than others. Anyone who claims they instantly recognized Gamebryo when seeing Lego Universe for the first time is full of shit.
Sure, I can agree with the gist of that
zadokAllen
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To all you Eagle Eye Engine Enthusiasts - I wonder how`d you do in a blind/randomized test. It`s very "easy" to spot an engine when you have a prior knowledge that a game was written in it
D
DArtagnan
Guest
To all you Eagle Eye Engine Enthusiasts - I wonder how`d you do in a blind/randomized test. It`s very "easy" to spot an engine when you have a prior knowledge that a game was written in it
I'd really have to suffer from serious self-esteem problems if I had to claim to be able to see these things in many cases, without it being true.
Personally, I have a hard time thinking up a more worthless skill - but I CAN actually do it very often
It doesn't mean I can't be mistaken, though.
To all you Eagle Eye Engine Enthusiasts - I wonder how`d you do in a blind/randomized test. It`s very "easy" to spot an engine when you have a prior knowledge that a game was written in it
Are you kidding? DArtagnan can smell a dog fart from a mile away, and tell you what breed it is.