FYI: pricedrops on SSD and RAM incoming

Probably low value. By the time they get it implemented correctly (it takes ms forever to do the simplest thing); there will be no reason to buy HD any longer. While the exact timeline is hard to predict I suspect that in less than 5 years HD will only be purchased by the most naive consumer. It just won't be cost effective to go the hd route any longer in the consumer market.
-
Btw i was serious about your lab guy being an idiot. He should have understood the technology and where it was headed given your description of his position.

Originally Posted by Lucky Day
I've actually done this. What I'm getting at is there should be an option for hybrid installs during the install itself. We are already getting cloud storage pushed down our throat, so something like this would be useful when your D drive is there.

They should also optimize the ProgramApps better. I'm sure all those files don't need to be there for optimum application speed. Some of those could stay in Program Files.

The other problem, of course, is when stupid apps hardcode installs to the C drive. There ought to be a law against that.

Originally Posted by you
Probably low value. By the time they get it implemented correctly (it takes ms forever to do the simplest thing); there will be no reason to buy HD any longer. While the exact timeline is hard to predict I suspect that in less than 5 years HD will only be purchased by the most naive consumer. It just won't be cost effective to go the hd route any longer in the consumer market.
-
Btw i was serious about your lab guy being an idiot. He should have understood the technology and where it was headed given your description of his position.

Not really. 8 years ago? Back then they weren't faster in all aspects. Especially with simultaneous reads, and had horrible reliability, and they still even now need to mature more to work properly in large raid arrays. It will eventually happen. But even 5 years from now, they're not going to be swapping HDDs in a large data-center array with a mismatched SSD, and re-doing the whole array won't be cost effective, even with power consumption taken into account. Especially when they have enterprise drives that can actually give a hint that it's going to die, before it actually does. Data recover is also going to be much harder. If a HDD drives, most of the time the data is still on the platter. If an SSD dies. It's dead period. Obviously that's what backups are for, but that doesn't help much if you're doing version control calculated by seconds instead of days. The "lab guy" wasn't an idiot. He was speaking to his audience. No doesn't mean never. It means, "not during my career". It would be the same nuance as if someone asked in the 80s (or even decades earlier) if electric cars would become mainstream.

Get a clue before you speak. I was using ssd heavily 8 years ago in the enterprise market and know damn well they were much faster. We had 3 products based exclusively off of ssd servers (not because we could but because we required the raw i/op].
-
The ones we used were pretty damn reliable. they were not cost effective for arrays 8 years ago but they are getting their. The high end enterprise ssd are quite durable today.

Originally Posted by Caddy
Not really. 8 years ago? Back then they weren't faster in all aspects. Especially with simultaneous reads, and had horrible reliability, and they still even now need to mature more to work properly in large raid arrays. It will eventually happen. But even 5 years from now, they're not going to be swapping HDDs in a large data-center array with a mismatched SSD, and re-doing the whole array won't be cost effective, even with power consumption taken into account. Especially when they have enterprise drives that can actually give a hint that it's going to die, before it actually does. Data recover is also going to be much harder. If a HDD drives, most of the time the data is still on the platter. If an SSD dies. It's dead period. Obviously that's what backups are for, but that doesn't help much if you're doing version control calculated by seconds instead of days. The "lab guy" wasn't an idiot. He was speaking to his audience. No doesn't mean never. It means, "not during my career". It would be the same nuance as if someone asked in the 80s (or even decades earlier) if electric cars would become mainstream.

Originally Posted by you
Get a clue before you speak. I was using ssd heavily 8 years ago in the enterprise market and know damn well they were much faster. We had 3 products based exclusively off of ssd servers (not because we could but because we required the raw i/op]

Triggered! As well as taking things out of context. You missed the all-aspects part.

Also, don't get upset at me for making a poor product.

Given your lack of knowledge why should I care if you made a poor product?

Originally Posted by Caddy
Triggered! As well as taking things out of context. You missed the all-aspects part.

Also, don't get upset at me for making a poor product.

Originally Posted by you
Given your lack of knowledge why should I care if you made a poor product?

You made the poor product, not me. Please continue though. I make a living off people who pretend to know what they’re talking about.

Yea whatever. At least i now know for certain you have no tech knowledge. Anyway have fun. Just stop giving people poor advice.

Originally Posted by Caddy
You made the poor product, not me. Please continue though. I make a living off people who pretend to know what they’re talking about.

I like how you called "[my] lab guy" an "idiot" at the end of your post so I wouldn't stop reading so soon.

My idiot lab guy kept 60 years of data stable and active to all servers as news super computers get installed in buildings (and buildings built to house them complete with their own power generators) with 100's of 1000's of processors that are turned on and off while fending of 32 billion attacks from China daily.

You can't fathom that his spinner array is so optimized that flash memory improvement would be negligible, but qualified that by saying a cache might see improvement? Yeah, my lab guy is an idiot.

//drops mic

Lucky Day --
I worked in a pair of national labs for a few years (usa). My comment was directed at his understanding the direction of emerging technology. I'm sure he had lots of experience with mechanical drives - and I can fathom a lot because we frequently dealt with situations where sub 5ms access time had a major impact on performance.
-
The array has fantastic tput 'cept that it was probably bus limited. The last 10 years there has been significant changes to bus standards to deal with the fact that modern storage is out-pacing established standards.
-
The sad thing is that when you consider just how slow token ring and fiber optics protocols were 10 years ago compare to what consumer off the shelf parts are now delivering it is mind boggling just how quickly the technology is moving compared to a couple of decades of near flatline performance (for storage).
-
Anyway until a few years ago mechanical drives were still competitive with ssd for raw linear tput and naturally an array had much better performance but that parallelism isn't going to help a lot with the initial seek time for the first byte.
-
I can't give too much specific examples of some of the problems we faced because there is a bit of a challenge weeding out the company specific details and the generalities but technology as always is changing and right now storage is seeing some love. I'm hopeful that the last array i built with mechanical drives has occurred and the next time I need an array large ssd (10tb or larger) will be readily available.
-
Btw google and facebook are both doing some really interesting stuff in their data centers; probably more interesting from a technology perspective than the national labs where the focus is on both hard and applied science.

Originally Posted by Lucky Day
I like how you called "[my] lab guy" an "idiot" at the end of your post so I wouldn't stop reading so soon.

My idiot lab guy kept 60 years of data stable and active to all servers as news super computers get installed in buildings (and buildings built to house them complete with their own power generators) with 100's of 1000's of processors that are turned on and off while fending of 32 billion attacks from China daily.

You can't fathom that his spinner array is so optimized that flash memory improvement would be negligible, but qualified that by saying a cache might see improvement? Yeah, my lab guy is an idiot.

//drops mic

Originally Posted by you
Yea whatever. At least i now know for certain you have no tech knowledge.

This should also go in Pricewatch but Kingston brought one of their 960gb drives down to $100

https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-120G…/dp/B079XC5PVV

Yea and I've seen a couple of the curcial drives run around $100 mark for 1TB (forget if it was the mx or bx series). Stuff is definitely dropping. Even the higher end mlc drives have dropped a lot but they are 2x to 4x per bit over the cheaper tlc/3d drives.

Originally Posted by Lucky Day
This should also go in Pricewatch but Kingston brought one of their 960gb drives down to $100

https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-120G…/dp/B079XC5PVV

Man, those are some significant price reductions right there. I'm definitely picking up another drive the next time my machine has to be serviced.