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Default Things I'm glad we (almost) never see in modern RPGs

August 30th, 2018, 10:27
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Oh, absolutely. The ease with which things can get patched has certainly dropped the state of games at release, but I still find that preferable to no patching at all.

Even a highly polished game like Warcraft 2 could have used a patch or two to fix a lot of compatibility issues. That's the sort of thing that would get fixed today, but it was simply not an option back then, so the alternative was hours of tweaking until it finally said: "Your soundcard works perfectly."

There's a reason that line is still remembered today, and it's not because it always worked on the first try, hehe, and Warcraft 2 was overall a top notch game.
Overall, I agree it's better today than before - but I do think there are edge cases where I've wished for more discipline and where I would actually prefer more polish and balance, rather than easier delivery of future content

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August 30th, 2018, 10:29
Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
Overall, I agree it's better today than before - but I do think there are edge cases where I've wished for more discipline and where I would actually prefer more polish and balance, rather than easier delivery of future content
Yeah, especially when content seems flat out cut in favor of a faster release, with the intent of either patching it in or selling it as a DLC. I don't think the latter is as common as some people make it out to be though.
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August 30th, 2018, 10:55
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Yeah, especially when content seems flat out cut in favor of a faster release, with the intent of either patching it in or selling it as a DLC. I don't think the latter is as common as some people make it out to be though.
No, I honestly don't think it's the "evil conspiracy" that some people make it out to be.

More than likely, it's based on an industry standard largely established by the suits. There's no alternative for a business man, because it's such an obvious way to make more money.

I mean, we the consumers have enabled them to exploit the market, so….

The actual developers - and those who're passionate about the game for its own sake - are probably completely outside the sphere of influence for such a decision.

Personally, I'm fine if the main release is meaty and worth my money - which it often is.

So, it's not really the plan of providing additional content that bothers me. The thing that bothers me is that I'm aware of it much too soon, and it's counter to my nature to experience an entertainment product in a way that I'm FULLY aware is not anywhere near complete.

That's really my problem with it more than anything.

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August 30th, 2018, 15:06
I actually like a couple of those on the list (say, for example, fake walls), but what I hate hate hate in old games is the lack of an automap. It makes dungeon delving much too tedious (and you're not actually even in the game when you have your head buried in grid paper).
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August 31st, 2018, 01:09
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Yeah, especially when content seems flat out cut in favor of a faster release, with the intent of either patching it in or selling it as a DLC.
That doesn't really bother me. The games are still plenty long (or at least the ones I buy are) so I'm fine with them putting in optional content for later. Often times it isn't even a factor because I can't get to a game before all the DLC is out and packaged with the game!
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September 2nd, 2018, 13:44
Originally Posted by Zloth View Post
Though it sure has been a long time since I got to do a Towers of Hanoi puzzle… <sniff ;>
Play SWTOR, and there the raid "Karaggas's Palace" in Hard Mode (HM). There you have it.
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September 2nd, 2018, 21:25
Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
So I've been playing a bunch of RPGs this year, some old, some new, and there's a bunch of things that seem to be somewhat common in older RPGs that I'm glad we almost never see anymore.

Illusory Walls (and similar)
So many older RPGs hide important items behind walls that look like just any other wall. The only way to know that there's something behind it is to just rub yourself against every wall you see, and hope that it will let you through. I'm somewhat fine with this when it comes to purely optional things (although I still don't like them), but for things you have to find to progress, they're just so annoying. Sorry, but I don't like rubbing myself against walls constantly, it's not fun gameplay, it's not challenging, it's just wasting my time.

Tiny (almost) hidden buttons
Similar to Illusory walls, we have tiny buttons that you need to find in order to progress, which just forces you to slowly scan your surrounding to find that button, checking every wall for anything that might look just a little bit out of place. Or buttons hidden underneath a lot of other junk. They're just obnoxious.
Things like hidden buttons and illusory walls or other such objects are fine if there's a way to detect them other than ramming the party into everything or manually scouring each tile for the buttons. Perception/Spot skills are a requirement.

Spinners
Spinners make you spin. It's that simple. They were (probably) introduced to mess with you when you make your own maps, by disorienting you. That's obnoxious, and just wastes your time. In some games you've got an automap, but they still keep the spinners in, and here they really serve no purpose. They just spin you around. That's it. Worse yet are random spinners, which will make you face a random direction every time you step on them. I hate spinners. They're not fun, they never were fun, and I don't get how anyone thoughts they were a good idea.
Amen. What's worse is that most of the games including them have so little detail that you can take several steps before realizing you've been turned around opposite of where you want to go.

Level drain
So you just got hit by a wight? Sorry, but now you just lost a level. Better reload, because if you accept every level drain that happens to you, you'll soon be level 1! Strahd's Possession is really obnoxious when it comes to level drain, but many other games have it as well (in particular D&D-based ones)
Not so bad if there's a way to recover from it. Unfortunately, most games lack that ability.

Roller-coaster rides of difficulty levels
So this area had red dragons, plenty of them, and now in the next area I'm fighting wolves? While difficulty needs its highs and lows, you can't just have all highs (or it will get tiring), going from one area with massively powerful enemies, and in the next area facing early-game enemies just feels silly. And fighting those wolves just feels like a waste of time.
Incredibly poor balancing was a feature used in most early RPGs it seems, and why I don't replay most of them any more.

Everything has to be a maze
While the overly linear level design of a lot of modern games can be really boring, the opposite extreme, everything being an illogical maze, is also boring, and often feels just as unrealistic. There's a middle ground, where you make a logical level that looked like it could have been used for whatever the area was used for, and where you force the player to explore to find keys, buttons, clues on how to solve the puzzle and so on. There's a place for mazes, don't get me wrong, but not everything should be one.
I HATE illogical dungeon designs. One of things I ask when designing a level is why is this like this? Why would it be built in this manner? How does it fit together? The Bard's Tale is terrible for this, though a lot of old games have that problem. A sewer isn't going to be random passages across three levels, but would largely follow the street layout on a single level. Towers aren't going to be as large as a castle, etc…
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September 2nd, 2018, 23:09
These threads are great because they make me feel young, which being a father of three I don't feel very often.

I'll agree on the not enough information part, but most of the others were before my time, or at least before I started playing RPG's. Other than that I don't know. Do we a thread about what me miss in todays games that were present in the old ones?
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September 2nd, 2018, 23:12
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
Play SWTOR, and there the raid "Karaggas's Palace" in Hard Mode (HM). There you have it.
I don't know about SWTOR, but I know I played a game pretty recently that had one. Kotor?
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September 3rd, 2018, 00:05
Originally Posted by TomRon View Post
Do we a thread about what me miss in todays games that were present in the old ones?
`Course we do!

BioWare really liked that Towers of Hanoi puzzle. I think they put a tombstone for it in Dragon Age: Orgins but then included it in the Deep Roads DLC for Dragon Age 3. I doubt we would see it now, though, as there's often three choices to make instead of just two… <ahem>
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September 4th, 2018, 21:59
Originally Posted by TomRon View Post
I don't know about SWTOR, but I know I played a game pretty recently that had one. Kotor?
I played one last night in The Descent DLCs of Dragon Age Inquisition. The codex that goes with it is hilarious and it is in an optional area.
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September 8th, 2018, 21:29
1. Having to type in the 14th word on the 3rd paragraph of page 32 of the manual.

2. Load times. Not necessarily an RPG thing, well, I think back specifically on GI JOE for the Commodore 64, and watching the convoy of vehicles drive by one after the other. As you, and the kid next to you, both sat in anticipation of the fight that was about to occur. The fight itself would be over in less time than the loading screen. I still think about that when I hear about long load times.

Thank you for reading.
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September 9th, 2018, 15:59
Lately I've been on a non-old-school CRPG kick and I'm thankful for that. I like simplicity right now. Some games were just so complex with the math, loot and equipment and that sort of thing, that I burned out on them a bit. I like when a game has plenty of customization but also doesn't bog you down with minutia. I'm sure eventually I'll play more isometrics but right now I like FFXV and newer games for their convenience and streamlining (never thought I'd say that, huh.)
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September 9th, 2018, 16:41
Originally Posted by TheRealFluent View Post
Lately I've been on a non-old-school CRPG kick and I'm thankful for that. I like simplicity right now. Some games were just so complex with the math, loot and equipment and that sort of thing, that I burned out on them a bit. I like when a game has plenty of customization but also doesn't bog you down with minutia. I'm sure eventually I'll play more isometrics but right now I like FFXV and newer games for their convenience and streamlining (never thought I'd say that, huh.)
Hate to say to say but I agree. As I recently played Original Sin 2 but the numbers, and amount of quests just gets out of hand fast. It gives me a damn headache eventually.

So I understand how you feel Fluent.
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September 11th, 2018, 01:55
Numbers in D:OS2?? I don't remember many being there.

On the other hand, in X Rebirth I've been trying to work out how many credits/hr I'll get if I just make a chip fab and a couple of scanning array facilities in a high tech fab instead of building out the whole thing considering I'm already making chemical compounds and quantum tubes in the same zone.
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September 11th, 2018, 03:58
Originally Posted by Zloth View Post
Numbers in D:OS2?? I don't remember many being there.
Well then you missed the stat points, skills, weapon damage, and all the combat elemental damage. I could go on but numbers are a big part of Original Sin 2.
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September 12th, 2018, 01:31
Pah, those are all just simple numbers! You don't have to do anything with them beyond "is 103 greater than 109." They may as well be words!

Give me a game weapon damage is determined by the weapon's base stats plus some percentage based on your character's strength minus the oppenent's armor stats with a 70% chance to do no damage at all due to the oppenent's shield (assuming an edged weapon, of course, 70% chance to do half damage if you're using blunt)…. ohhhhyeah… <drool>

Oh! I also don't miss old school fighters. In modern times, fighters tend to get fancy skills that will let them rush attackers, knock people over, and other sorts of variety. In days of yore, not so much. Palandins and rangers got some but the pure fighters? Just pick which enemy to hit with your stick. Zzzzzzzz
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September 12th, 2018, 01:37
Alright moving on as I can't tell if ya are serious.
Pah, those are all just simple numbers! You don't have to do anything with them beyond "is 103 greater than 109." They may as well be words!

Give me a game weapon damage is determined by the weapon's base stats plus some percentage based on your character's strength minus the oppenent's armor stats with a 70% chance to do no damage at all due to the oppenent's shield (assuming an edged weapon, of course, 70% chance to do half damage if you're using blunt)…. ohhhhyeah… <drool>
Can someone call a wellness check on the poor Zloth.

Anyway to get my replies back on topic I don't miss loading screens. Yes you heard me so take head Obsidian, Larian, inxile, and Bethesda. Yea have been warned.

A modern RPG game should not have loading screens that get worse as you play. I'm looking at you Obsidian mostly for you're slow ass loading Unity Engine RPGS.
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September 12th, 2018, 01:55
At least the loading screens now have slightly useful hints and tips in them!
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September 12th, 2018, 15:08
Yeah I don't mind loading screens if they have useful or interesting information, but my pet peeve is when they're so fast you can't read them.

I don't want to get bogged down right now in inventory hell, where you pick up a million items and have to sort your inventory every 10 minutes. Stuff like that is pushing me towards more modern games at the moment.

And too many quests can be a headache and also overwhelming. Sometimes there can be too much of a good thing. At least that's how I feel recently.
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