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Default General News - CRPGs are back

June 27th, 2018, 00:18
Rock Paper Shotgun says big dense CRPGs have a bright future:

Clear 100 hours in your calendar, ‘cos CRPGs are here to stay

In the mid-to-late 2000s, publishers abandoned the CRPG genre – an acronym describing the very specific genre of video games adapted from tabletop RPGs to be played on computers – which a decade earlier had been a cornerstone of PC gaming. They were more interested in accessible, console-friendly series like Mass Effect and The Elder Scrolls, and PC-centric RPGs all but died out.

Then, around 2012, RPGs made a comeback, largely thanks to the rise of crowdfunding and an endless well of nostalgia. Since then we’ve been treated to heaps of good ones – Divinity: Original Sin, Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland 2, Torment: Tides of Numenera – and there are plenty more in the works. But there’s no guarantee that CRPGs are back for good. Some, such as Torment, haven’t sold well. The future of crowdfunding remains uncertain. And asking fans to commit 50 hours to a single story is more difficult than ever, given the volume of great games that release every month. So how can developers ensure that the genre stays relevant?

[…]
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June 27th, 2018, 00:19
Can I roll my eyes again for another article about the Rebirth/Decline of RPGs again?
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June 27th, 2018, 00:35
That was an insightful read.

An interesting tidbit for me:
One of the reasons that Tides of Numenera didn’t sell as well as expected was because it was too text-heavy, says Brian Fargo, head of developer inXile Entertainment. Wasteland 2, which came out before Torment, hit a better balance between story and action, and Wasteland 3 will focus on the “strategic aspect of combat in an XCOM kind of way”, he says.
Now I'm wondering what strategic elements will be present. I like that he is deriving inspiration from XCOM but hope he also keeps his ear to the ground for Phoenix Point and the innovations there with vehicles on the battlefield.
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June 27th, 2018, 01:02
Originally Posted by Silver View Post
Now I'm wondering what strategic elements will be present. I like that he is deriving inspiration from XCOM but hope he also keeps his ear to the ground for Phoenix Point and the innovations there with vehicles on the battlefield.
My assumption was that he meant W3 would feature better, more tactical & tightly-tuned combat. But maybe I'm wrong.

I think the biggest news in this article is actually this:
Fargo believes that CRPGs will increasingly feature multiplayer – something the Original Sin games again pioneered – and Wasteland 3 will be the first in the series with a co-op campaign. “Every metric [suggests it will get] more and more difficult to do a single player game. You’ll see more multiplayer [in CRPGs], but the trick is for us to not give up the depth.”

His desire for multiplayer action and more emergent gameplay will culminate in a “secret project” to be unveiled later this year, he tells me, which will combine inXile’s love for storytelling with the freedom of a multiplayer sandbox game such as DayZ or Rust. Those games often simulate the breakdown of a post-apocalyptic society perfectly, but have stories that are often just: “Here’s a rock, go,” he says.
Ugh. Just what we needed, Wasteland 76.
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June 27th, 2018, 01:25
@felipepepe had the best comment, which pretty much sums up thoughts as well

I really don’t understand why it’s so hard to mention other CRPGs like Age of Decadence, Shadowrun: Dragonfall, Underrail, Tale of Wuxia, Expeditions: Conquistador, Sunless Sea, Tales of Maj’Eyal, Blackguards, Lords of Xulima, Avernum, Avadon, etc…

A “comeback” is not made of just three games, and there’s no law saying that every single article on CRPGs requires Fargo doing self-promotion. Some of the games I mentioned sold way more than Torment: Tides of Numenera despite being from much smaller studios, they deserve their spot in the sun.

It’s really annoying how the media acts as if only Obisidian, Larian and inXile matters.
Seriously, there's more than 3 CRPG developers.
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June 27th, 2018, 01:30
Wasteland Online 76 - or WLOL76? Can it compete with the likes of FOOL76?

That's hilarious that Torment's problem was its text heaviness because critics who cited Planescape's failure said the same thing. Wasn't the new Torment's issue that it was too short - at least if you didn't bother with it all text? A Torment without all the plodding yap isn't a Torment.

Co-Op CRPG's were not pioneered by D:OS - that was a key feature of BG among others.

But I think this article is general is four years too late. We already know the crowdfunding era turned into a mixed bag. And I wouldn't call Elder Scrolls primarily meant for console - they play well on PC and kept the Western traditions alive without having to resort to dumbed down JRPG techniques.
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June 27th, 2018, 01:47
CRPG - Computer Role Playing Game. Does this mean isometric RPG now??

To me, it's an old acronym that got replaced by more specific stuff, like JRPG or strategic RPG. Back when computers were new and you had to distinguish between P&P vs. Computer it had a use.
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June 27th, 2018, 02:12
Originally Posted by Lucky Day View Post
And I wouldn't call Elder Scrolls primarily meant for console - they play well on PC
That's certainly debateable - I think the interface in Skyrim is unbearable crap. I'm pretty sure it's literally the worst I've ever seen in any RPG I'd even remotely consider playing. And consoles must be the reason, otherwise I assume no sane person would ever create such a god-awful interface.

Originally Posted by Zloth View Post
CRPG - Computer Role Playing Game. Does this mean isometric RPG now??
No, it means RPGs that are primarily focused on/designed for computers, not consoles. It just so happens that most computer-focused RPGs are isometric. Most all devs who put out 1st/3rd person games seem to have a console-first mindset. Probably because the amount of money required to put together acceptable 1st/3rd person graphics forces you into appealing to the console audience to recoup dev costs.
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June 27th, 2018, 02:21
I can't help it. For CRPGs to really make a comeback WotC need to finally commission one with Dungeons and Dragons rules. It's been 12 years since NwN2…
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June 27th, 2018, 02:24
Originally Posted by Ephiron View Post
I can't help it. For CRPGs to really make a comeback WotC need to finally commission one with Dungeons and Dragons rules. It's been 12 years since NwN2…
We do have 3 games coming in the near future with D&D 3.5 (more or less) rules:
Pathfinder: Kingmaker, Realms Beyond, Knights of the Chalice 2
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June 27th, 2018, 02:24
Also NASA is open again.
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June 27th, 2018, 02:34
Originally Posted by Stingray View Post
We do have 3 games coming in the near future with D&D 3.5 (more or less) rules:
Pathfinder: Kingmaker, Realms Beyond, Knights of the Chalice 2
There is no mistaking that I am looking forward to all of these with that in mind. Hint, hint Wizards of the Coast.
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June 27th, 2018, 02:38
Fargo believes that CRPGs will increasingly feature multiplayer – something the Original Sin games again pioneered – and Wasteland 3 will be the first in the series with a co-op campaign. “Every metric [suggests it will get] more and more difficult to do a single player game. You’ll see more multiplayer [in CRPGs], but the trick is for us to not give up the depth.”

His desire for multiplayer action and more emergent gameplay will culminate in a “secret project” to be unveiled later this year, he tells me, which will combine inXile’s love for storytelling with the freedom of a multiplayer sandbox game such as DayZ or Rust. Those games often simulate the breakdown of a post-apocalyptic society perfectly, but have stories that are often just: “Here’s a rock, go,” he says.

“I’ve been completely fascinated by the emergent gameplay that comes from open-world systems, but yet we love storytelling, and so we want to explore how we might be able to merge those worlds,” he explains.
Originally Posted by Stingray View Post
Ugh. Just what we needed, Wasteland 76.
Just read that and already know I wont be buying /backing his next game.
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June 27th, 2018, 02:40
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Just read that and already know I won t be buying /baking his next game.
Can only hope it doesn't turn out to be as bad as he made it sound here. But I think I'm more pro-inXile than most around here (I even thought the new Torment was great) and it still sounds really, really bad.
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June 27th, 2018, 02:46
Originally Posted by Stingray View Post
Can only hope it doesn't turn out to be as bad as he made it sound here. But I think I'm more pro-inXile than most around here (I even thought the new Torment was great) and it still sounds really, really bad.
I wouldn't worry overly much. InXile has made their name as a story company and it sounds like Brian wants to spruce up that genre with story rather than clone it. If it is successful maybe we will see better games coming out of that space. ie choice and consequence in survival RPG like Dying Light 2.
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June 27th, 2018, 02:48
I have some degree of faith in Brian Fargo (although it's lessening after reading stuff like this), but he's retiring after W3 is released, right? So at that point, who knows who'll be making these kind of decisions there.
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June 27th, 2018, 02:56
Originally Posted by Silver View Post
There is no mistaking that I am looking forward to all of these with that in mind. Hint, hint Wizards of the Coast.
Wasn't Sword Coast Legends the last official D&D game?* It was received horribly because they tried to make it appeal to casual gamers…

And I don't even think WotC realized the problem; I think they concluded that there isn't a big enough market for singleplayer D&D video games anymore… Ugh, if someone would make a proper D&D CRPG it could be a success.

Oh well, I'm happy Realms Beyond is coming.

* ( I mean unless you count Siege of Dragonspear, but that's an expansion of an old game so I don't)
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June 27th, 2018, 02:57
Originally Posted by Silver View Post
I wouldn't worry overly much. InXile has made their name as a story company and it sounds like Brian wants to spruce up that genre with story rather than clone it. If it is successful maybe we will see better games coming out of that space. ie choice and consequence in survival RPG like Dying Light 2.
Wish I could believe that silver but this old jaded gamer just can't.

All I see is two steps forward and two steps back with all my favorite RPGs nowadays. It's starting to look like we'll be seeing more online survivor sandbox RPGs in the future.

My prediction for RPGs in late 2018-2019 is coming true it seems.
Originally Posted by daveyd View Post
Wasn't Sword Coast Legends the last official D&D game?* It was received horribly because they tried to make it appeal to casual gamers…

And I don't even think WotC realized the problem; I think they concluded that there isn't a big enough market for singleplayer D&D video games anymore… Ugh, if someone would make a proper D&D CRPG it could be a success.
Yes it was the first official D&D that had a single-player campaign instead of the MMOs released in the last few years. It had so much potential but was ruined in development.

As for someone making a proper D&D CRPG I would pin my hopes on Pathfinder: Kingmaker. Yes I know it's not a true D&D CRPG but it's as close as we will ever get.
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June 27th, 2018, 03:16
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
al but was ruined in development.

As for someone making a proper D&D CRPG I would pin my hopes on Pathfinder: Kingmaker. Yes I know it's not a true D&D CRPG but it's as close as we will ever get.
Yeah, but personally I HATE RTwP combat.

So for me Realms Beyond is more what like what I want. Kind of ToEE but hopefully w/ a better story.
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June 27th, 2018, 03:22
Originally Posted by daveyd View Post
Yeah, but personally I HATE RTwP combat.

So for me Realms Beyond is more what like what I want. Kind of ToEE but hopefully w/ a better story.
I'm the opposite and it seems I forgot you enjoy turn-cased RPGs more. As for Realms Beyond I might pick it up at some point, but it's not on my must play list on it's release.

Moving on guess I'll have to accept playing most games online at some point.
One thing I did take away from this, apart from the positives, is an indication that single player games are becoming a thing of the past, or could be. I really hope that isn’t the case. I’ve loved my RPGs and for me the immersion and sense of soul would be lost if Bi77yW1Zz274 kept nudging me off a cliff or ninja looting all my gear, or talking over NPC dialogue.

Still, that the humble RPG is here to stay, I’m more happy than sad.
Yep the challenge will be introducing that extra stuff without losing what people love about the single player element. Going to be interesting to watch.
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