Witcher 2 CDPR Defends Difficulty

For regular posters in TW forums the question was if easy difficulty was going to be really easy (which was not the case in 1'st game) , i think they got that right this time so no complaints .

Tragos said:

For regular posters in TW forums the question was if easy difficulty was going to be really easy (which was not the case in 1'st game) , i think they got that right this time so no complaints .

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You didn't think the Easy setting in TW1 was easy enough? I thought even Normal was far too easy in that game..

JDR13 said:

You didn't think the Easy setting in TW1 was easy enough? I thought even Normal was far too easy in that game..

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No , i died several times while attempting to kill that monster in the crypt of the first village, also died 3-4 times dealing with the green dogs ; if i have to reload twice then easy ain't easy and this was my complaint in their forums.

At this point (in Flotsam at level 8) the Witcher 2 reminds me a lot of the Gothic games: The first many hours is all about going from one way of getting beaten to a bloody pulp to another ... not really my idea of fun

Hopefully it will get easier as you level up, if not, then there are plenty other fun games to be had.

Hmm. To me "easy" in Witcher 1 was very easy, medium was easy enough and hard was just a nice challenge without having to pull you hair out of your head like I've done in Drakensang, for instance.

So to me Witcher 1' s "normal" = Witcher' 2's "easy". Well, I'm only in chapter 2 still, so perhaps I shouldn't talk too prematurely.

As for the Gothic games, you can't really compare. The Gothic games are open world with no area or level scaling, so you're going to meet pretty hard beasties right from the begininng, and you should have the gumption to avoid them and simply run away at first until you gain XP with carry quests.

Also, in Gothic you can spam enemies with ranged weapons from afar and run away if they come close, or sit on a rock where they can't reach you. Also, it's easier to kite in the Gothic games.

(Btw, I include Risen in the Gothic games but not Arcania. Arcania is not a Gothic game as far as I'm concerned.)
So yeah - the Gothic games are "hard" if you want to play them like a console game, but console games they are not. They need their own special approach.

ChienAboyeur said:

What is the trick in Kayran's fight?

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If you're really struggling, here's a tip:


Hope that helps.

RivianWitch said:

As for the Gothic games, you can't really compare. The Gothic games are open world with no area or level scaling, so you're going to meet pretty hard beasties right from the begininng, and you should have the gumption to avoid them and simply run away at first until you gain XP with carry quests.

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And that is exactly what I'm doing in TW2 right now. Going from one area to another attempting to find the right area for my level. I attempted going after the Nekker nests, but got swarmed just inside the cave entrance and beaten to a pulp. Then I tried going after the Endregas, and the regular endrega was just fine, the warrior was fine, the guard was fine and then the queen … bam, dead. Okay we'll try again with a bit of trap laying and swallow potion … bam, dead. Okay screw that, let's try something else, etc, etc, etc … exactly like the first 10-15 hours of Gothic 1, 2 and 3.

At least reading this thread more thoroughly has given me some tips to take on the Queens.

RivianWitch said:

Also, in Gothic you can spam enemies with ranged weapons from afar and run away if they come close, or sit on a rock where they can't reach you. Also, it's easier to kite in the Gothic games.

(Btw, I include Risen in the Gothic games but not Arcania. Arcania is not a Gothic game as far as I'm concerned.)
So yeah - the Gothic games are "hard" if you want to play them like a console game, but console games they are not. They need their own special approach.

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There is a term for that approach: Loophole Exploit.

Find a bug in the engine and exploit it. This ranges from the awful bunny jumping BS in all Quake 3 engine games to reaching otherwise unreachable places by standing and jumping on top of other players' heads to finding a place where the monster pathfinding AI can't reach and pelt away at enemies in safety in Gothic games. In my book, that's called cheating. Sure, it works, but come on: That Shadow Beast that just tore you a new one over and over again is suddenly just standing there waiting be slaughtered because you're now perched on a 3 feet high pillock? Not very bloody likely.

My usual tolerance level in games is 3 times ALT+CTRL+DEL tabbing out of a game in frustration. I've done it once now in TW2, so there is still 2 left before I completely give up (and yes, I *HAD* given up on the Beast fight in the original Witcher but just before I could delete the game I came across a tip for managing that encounter from Prima Junta here at the Watch and I decided to try just one more time. It worked and it was by far the most annoying encounter in the entire, otherwise, wonderful game ... and the reason I've never played it more than once).

fatBastard() said:

I attempted going after the Nekker nests, but got swarmed just inside the cave entrance and beaten to a pulp.

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fatBastard() said:

There is a term for that approach: Loophole Exploit.

Find a bug in the engine and exploit it. This ranges from the awful bunny jumping BS in all Quake 3 engine games to reaching otherwise unreachable places by standing and jumping on top of other players' heads to finding a place where the monster pathfinding AI can't reach and pelt away at enemies in safety in Gothic games. In my book, that's called cheating. Sure, it works, but come on: That Shadow Beast that just tore you a new one over and over again is suddenly just standing there waiting be slaughtered because you're now perched on a 3 feet high pillock? Not very bloody likely.

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Well, firstly, one doesn't have to use that specific tactic to beat the game, but secondly I personally don't consider it a cheat. Using the loophole in G1 to make yourself lots of pieces of free meat is an exploit and a cheat, yes. But shooting an enemy from a high vantage point is A) Something that quite often happens in RL, and B) not inconceivably something that the devs could have envisaged you doing. Standing on other player's heads to reach a point you couldn't possibly reach on your own, is IMO not the same thing.

Any combat-related tactic such as kiting or using ranged weapons to their best advantage, is IMO making use of available tactics and strategy, and not the same as loophole exploiting such as for instance Permaspelling yourself in Morrowind. The latter is cheating. But whatever..

Witcher 2 becomes similarly much easier to handle with simple use of tactics such as use of signs, oils, potions bombs, traps and buying yourself superior weapons and armor, the latter which is much more achievable in the second game than it was in the first one.

I myself got killed by a mob of Endregas just outside the town gate. Reloaded from inside town gate, drank two potions and applied sword oil, made sure I had some potent bombs at the ready and I was fine, this time making sure that I didn't allow myself to be surrounded by the mob again. (Since attacks from behind carry more damage, AFAIK).


Of course, your build is also important. I put a lot of points to start off with into vigour (health) and some into swordsmanship, especially the branch that deals with mobs.

Using potions, signs, traps, bombs and superior equipment isn't cheating, it's making use of strategies that the devs have made available to you.

PS. I find bombs much more effective than traps. They're much more certain to reach their target. Traps are dicey in the sense of that the normal snares seem to hurt you more than the beasties, and while the other traps are more potent, it's not so easy to get who you want to step on them, to step on them…

DArtagnan said:

I love their approach.

Fuck the mainstream and do what's in your heart.

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And fail financially. Business 101 here people.

BillSeurer said:

And fail financially. Business 101 here people.

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Let's see how much they "fail" with The Witcher 2 - shall we.

JDR13 said:

Spoiler: The Nekker quest

The Nekker nests aren't in any cave, so it sounds like you were in the wrong place anyways. The nests (3) are out in the swamp, and can be identified by the large bloody piles of remains around them (as well as a shitload of Nekkers). Make sure you read the Nekker journal entry so you know what item you need to destroy the nests.

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I found that out later on and I've taken out 1 nekker nest so far. However the nekker quest description mentions caves so I sought out the nearest cave first. Bad move

I'll get the hang of it eventually, but for a moment there it was Ultima all over again (Go north, die. Go south, die. Go west, run into dragon and die ever so much. Go east, die ... delete game, never look back)

RivianWitch said:

Of course, your build is also important. I put a lot of points to start off with into vigour (health) and some into swordsmanship, especially the branch that deals with mobs.

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And I certainly plan to. At this point, however, I've only just been able to unlock the specialized branches. Perhaps, that is my problem right there: Perhaps I'm simply trying to go after side-quests too soon before I've been beefed up sufficiently by the main quests.

fatBastard() said:

However the nekker quest description mentions caves so I sought out the nearest cave first. Bad move

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Don't throw the game away. It does become easier. Why don't you just play on easy? Experiencing the game is worth it.

Anyway, I wanted to console you about the cave thing - it is rather confusing.

Oh yeah, the nekker "tunnel entrances". That was fun

Other than misleading quest info…. I seriously do not see the gnarly difficulty that is being attributed to this game. Boss fights aside, of course lol. But theyre supposed to be uber-difficult.

Fight tactically. Constantly be moving, an idle witcher is a dead Witcher. You cant just run up and whack away, they'll all gang-bang you at once and youre dead. Roll to the outside of the fight, then strike at them, skirting the edges. Back off, retreat, strike again. Patience is key. Use the environment to your advantage. Dont just hit anyone, work on specific opponents to knock them out of the fight one by one. Use Quen.
Use block. Throw daggers and bombs.


I dont know what else to suggest, other than maybe you need a better key setup to use the controls easier. For me, the default controls had me fumbling and I couldnt use all the stuff right. My bomb/block/dodge setup is as follows, straighforward and easy access:
double-tap WASD: roll
Spacebar: block - use it or die
E: throw bomb/dagger

I would also suggest "training" on the guards at Flotsam. Seriously, get a good save right there at the dock as a training save, draw your sword on the end of the dock and piss them off. In a couple seconds, you have a bunch of dummies in a corridor using basic attacks to practice on. As for the specific moves Geralt does, like jumping in w/ quick attacks, timing your block-then-attack moves all that - this is great for learning them.

If you take them on in the center of town where the hangmans noose is, sometimes Triss will show up and join in, hurling fireballs at them! Good times

xSamhainx said:

Other than misleading quest info…. I seriously do not see the gnarly difficulty that is being attributed to this game. Boss fights aside, of course lol. But theyre supposed to be uber-difficult.

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Well, lets take the first Letho fight, in the bathhouse. This is, in my mind, a fantastic, heart-pounding, challenging fight. I can really sink my teeth into this combat! It's a tough fight, no doubt about it; yet, is it uber-difficult like many claim? Well the answer, in theory, is NO; but in actuality it IS "uber difficult" - only because the damned controls, as they stand now, un-patched, are clunky and broken.

Hitting buttons 4, 5, 6, 7 times with nothing happening on attacks and/or signs and/or movement, especially at those most unfortunate moments when you've simply got to react, leaves you but cannon fodder to Letho's sadistic fancy. This, and only this, is what makes this fight, at least for me, quite impossible on normal difficulty.

This fight is fantastic because, while you do have to study it a few times, you know - 4 or 5 reloads maybe - get a feel for it, develope your tactic, train your focus and get into a flow, a groove, it's readily winable if and when you reach that game-zone nirvanna and exectute your tactic properly. Sadly, the control problem routinely stands in your way and negates your rising to the challenge; it squashes you're enjoyment of the fight, and turns it all into "uber-difficult" hair pulling frustration. Not cool!

Of course it's not a real problem if you want to proceed with the game/story, because all you have to do is set the difficulty to easy and beat him the very next try... while guzzling a beer maybe, or clipping your nails, or holding your kids head at bay while he swings away trying to pummel you. Ahh.... there it is now, the cut scene.

The bottom line is that CDProjekt has no warrent to defend the difficulty of the game - however brashly they've done it. I just don't understand this defence of TW2's difficulty. It's based on a false premise. Clunky controls and ill-coded combat mechanics are the blame here, that is all! (well, along with the assinine decision to replace strafing and backing for turning Ugh.) Ok, ok... come on, it's my pet peeve... won't you just let me have that one small thing? : )

Rather, they must needs bow low to us customers, beg our pardon, acknowledge the many problems surrounding the greatness that is TW2, and promise to work on a fix.

With the first patch already out, and another one on the way soon, I can see these guys mean business and will support their creation adequatelly. I'll just wait for the patches... and let the patches of bald spaces on my head re-grow in the meantime...

Pity people complained so much about about stuff like combat in Witcher1. If they hadn't, we could still have had that cool UI and those cool combat mechanics. (With hopefully just a bit of an upped difficulty from what it was in TW1.

I wouldn't have been able to enjoy TW2 if they'd kept the combat system, though.

Overall, I think TW2 is quite a success - regardless of any individual negative response to the big changes.

I have to agree, i liked the combat in the original but I sure like this version too. The quick-attack close-in moves, then hit w/ a heavy attack, block - it's just more tactical.

Everywhere on the net people cannot stop crying about the Kayran fight, it's kinda funny. Are we not gamers? Have these people never fought a boss battle before? I thought that it was actually quite a fun fight.

Reading this thread I get the impression that most people (or an imagined "mainstream" that must be catered to) will quit and delete a game which features any sort of tactics or strategy - since most of them apparently can't stand to die more than once or twice in a game. How is the game supposed to have varied encounters if you should already know how to beat all of them?

Or is it the general perception that there should be an in-depth tutorial that explains exactly how to kill each new enemy? Might as well play out a cutscene in that case…

I guess the problem might be that the perception of what an RPG is has shifted so much that the majority of fans simply want to be led through an "experience". Might as well streamline away what little complexity a modern RPG like Witcher 2 has left if the encounters shouldn't even be challenging enough to force you to learn how to apply the provided tools.