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October 9th, 2017, 10:40
I'll probably review ELEX as well, but I'll use a 1-10 rating system like I've always done. I'm not a big fan of the 5 star system.
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October 9th, 2017, 15:06
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Must have missed this one.

What I'm really tempted to do at this point is to review ELEX in a few weeks, and give it a 4 just for the sake of it, so that the entire RPG community just implodes and #MaylanderReviewGate2017 continues.
When you wrote "it seems some people feel that their opinion should be shared by everyone" I didn't realize you meant yourself.

I actually did believe that different opinions were acceptable here. Obviously I was mistaken. I'm truly sorry I ever disagreed with your opinion. Trust me. The whole experience has been a very unpleasant eye-opener.

At any rate rest assured I won't be disagreeing with your opinions in the future.

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October 9th, 2017, 15:13
Originally Posted by RPGFool View Post
When you wrote "it seems some people feel that their opinion should be shared by everyone" I didn't realize you meant yourself.

I actually did believe that different opinions were acceptable here. Obviously I was mistaken. I'm truly sorry I ever disagreed with your opinion. Trust me. The whole experience has been a very unpleasant eye-opener.

At any rate rest assured I won't be disagreeing with your opinions in the future.
Feel free to disagree all you want. As long as we stick to the matter at hand, and refrain from name-calling etc, it's all part of a good discussion. Personally, I enjoy that sort of thing, and I'm sure others do as well.
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October 9th, 2017, 16:01
Originally Posted by RPGFool View Post
When you wrote "it seems some people feel that their opinion should be shared by everyone" I didn't realize you meant yourself.
What I saw that you did is that you had no comments about the contents of the review. No statements about where the contents of the review was incorrect. The only thing you commented about is the resulting rating, which you felt was off when comparing our metric to some other metric.

Again there were no comments from you about why the contents of the review was disconnected to the rating that was given, which was that it is a good game, but it just has too many bugs for it to be excellent.
Debating the rating by itself, without going into a discussion on the contents and showing the disconnect from that rating, does unfortunately not give a lot of substance to your statements.
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October 9th, 2017, 16:55
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I'll probably review ELEX as well, but I'll use a 1-10 rating system like I've always done. I'm not a big fan of the 5 star system.
Just score it out of 10 and divide it by 2

Maybe this is the problem and some people are seeing the 4/5*2 as an 80% score, which is only 1% off a clearly mediocre 79% score.

Let's officially agree to give it an early 90s game mag style "93%" and be done with it.
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October 9th, 2017, 16:57
Originally Posted by RPGFool View Post
When you wrote "it seems some people feel that their opinion should be shared by everyone" I didn't realize you meant yourself.

I actually did believe that different opinions were acceptable here. Obviously I was mistaken. I'm truly sorry I ever disagreed with your opinion. Trust me. The whole experience has been a very unpleasant eye-opener.

At any rate rest assured I won't be disagreeing with your opinions in the future.

__
I share Myrthos's agreement to a certain extent. I have no problem with some of your opinions such as

*D:OS 2 is a 5 star game.
*ME:A should not recieve the same rating in your opinion as D:OS 2

and I actually suspect that a lot of people might agree with those opinions. I haven't played either game so I have no opinion, or let me say this I wouldn't have given their two predecessors the same rating. I enjoyed D:OS 1 much more than ME3.

But I think why people have called you out is your reasoning

*You feel that the review is unfair to Larian.
*Larian may lose money (and I guess you fear they won't be making more of this kind of rpg.
*You feel that Maylander should have changed his review to 5 stars, even though this conflicted with his opinion of the game.
*You have insinuated that RPG Watch gives 4/5 stars to all games they review.
*You insinuated that there is an objective rating a game should recieve and if a reviewer's opinion lies on the outside edge of the metacritic, they are being unfair to the game.

For me that's not the best way to defend your opinion. It would be much better to say why you think its a 5 star game. That is it would be better to right a mini review where you say what points of the game stand out and why you feel that Maylander's criticisms are unfair or incorrect. Those are things that can be debated.
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October 9th, 2017, 17:10
What I want to know is whether or not they fixed what I found to be the single biggest disappointment from the first game: the lack of a proper day/night cycle and NPC scheduling to go along with it. For me, the fact that the game world in D:OS was completely static and virtually nothing that the player did had any effect on it was a huge letdown, and destroyed any sense of immersion or atmosphere that the developers clearly tried so hard to create. I mean, this is something that Ultima was doing in 1987. Why is this feature so often ignored? Couldn't they have at least written a few scripts to do things like, say, clean up all those dead bodies outside the walls of Cyceal after the player clears the area of orcs and undead? Don't those dead Legionnaires deserve a proper burial?

I also have to say that I'm getting a little tired of the worn out, Diablo-style loot system that crops up in so many RPGs. You know the one, where every item takes the form of "something something sword of the something." Can we be done with this, please? (Clearly not.) This type of system, more often than not, turns an RPG into an endless quest for loot, where the game world and the story take second and third place. Is this still the case in the sequel? (Sounds like it.)

I think that the first one was a decent game, and I enjoyed it well enough, but these features alone (or lack thereof) put it towards the bottom of the pack of the Kickstarter RPGS (Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland 2, etc.) Obviously these are my opinions, and I am not criticizing anyone else for what they enjoy.
Last edited by Clocknova; October 9th, 2017 at 17:20.
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October 9th, 2017, 17:19
Originally Posted by Clocknova View Post
What I want to know is whether or not they fixed what I found to be the single biggest disappointment from the first game: the lack of a proper day/night cycle and NPC scheduling to go along with it. For me, the fact that the game world is completely static and virtually nothing that the player does has any effect on it is a huge letdown, and destroys any sense of immersion or atmosphere that the developers clearly tried so hard to create. I mean, this is something that Ultima was doing in 1987. Why is this feature so often ignored? Couldn't they have at least written a few scripts to do things like, say, clean up all those dead bodies outside the walls of Cyceal after the player clears the area of orcs and undead? Don't those dead Legionnaires deserve a proper burial?
Nope. It's still slightly better than the original though, as there's a bit more life to some of the settlements, but it doesn't actually rival games like Gothic or The Witcher 3 in that regard.

Originally Posted by Clocknova View Post
I also have to say that I'm getting a little tired of the worn out, Diablo-style loot system that crops up in so many RPGs. You know the one, where every item takes the form of "something something sword of the something." Can we be done with this, please? (Clearly not.) This type of system, more often than not, turns an RPG into an endless quest for loot, where the game world and the story take second and third place. Is this still the case in the sequel?
Very much so, and it's very gear dependant. You should probably check the weapons vendor at least every other level up to see if he's got something new for you. A few hand placed items here and there do give a bit of a "wow" effect from time to time, but you won't be finding Carsomyr or Crom Faeyr anytime soon.
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October 9th, 2017, 17:36
Yeah. I hate to say it, but I'm probably going to give this one a pass. At least until I can get it very cheap. Too many other, better RPGs I can play in the meantime.
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October 9th, 2017, 17:57
Originally Posted by Clocknova View Post
I also have to say that I'm getting a little tired of the worn out, Diablo-style loot system that crops up in so many RPGs. You know the one, where every item takes the form of "something something sword of the something." Can we be done with this, please? (Clearly not.) This type of system, more often than not, turns an RPG into an endless quest for loot, where the game world and the story take second and third place.
This is undoubtedly my biggest gripe with the game and it's a big one. Not just the randomized loot that forces you into reloading vendors if you want to upgrade old gear, but also the ridiculous exponential scaling of HP, armor, and damage on said gear.

The game deserves a 4/5 rating for the sheer breadth of tactics, but in no way is a perfect 5/5 score warranted.
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October 9th, 2017, 18:19
Originally Posted by Clocknova View Post
What I want to know is whether or not they fixed what I found to be the single biggest disappointment from the first game: the lack of a proper day/night cycle
Actually one of reasons I love both games is no "the party doesn't sleep ever yet there is day/night cycle" system.
To you it might be disappointing, to me it's the best design decision ever made for this type of a game.
Originally Posted by Drithius View Post
This is undoubtedly my biggest gripe with the game and it's a big one. Not just the randomized loot that forces you into reloading vendors if you want to upgrade old gear, but also the ridiculous exponential scaling of HP, armor, and damage on said gear.

The game deserves a 4/5 rating for the sheer breadth of tactics, but in no way is a perfect 5/5 score warranted.
There is a fixed loot actually and is wearable in RL.
Sure, the game alone doesn't warrant 5/5 (my biggest problem is "dumbing down" inventory system from the first game and crafting menus), but with this thing I'm wearing 24/7 for weeks now, sorry, I'm prepared to forgive "mediocre" design choices where any presence of RNG loot/level/reward is not something I'll ever like. I planned to write this only in "finished" thread eventually, but here it is so you know what to expect me to say.

Yes, an opinion about game based on RL rags - sucks. Sorry again, but it's physical rags, it's not horse armor DLC. This is how you do proper "additional content" business IMO and I have to reward it.
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October 9th, 2017, 20:21
Are people suggesting that Maylander should change his rating? If so that is damn silly. While I might consider the game to have a different rating than Maylander; in no way should I (or imho anyone) suggest he change his rating. What they might do is compare this review to other reviews he has done and if they are concern that he is using different scale between the reviews then they should point out why they think such and ask him if he can expand.
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Sorry somehow I got confused - i didn't realize that folks were actually demanding (or suggesting) the reviewer change their scores.
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October 9th, 2017, 20:22
Well I know you are joking but still ….

Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Must have missed this one.

What I'm really tempted to do at this point is to review ELEX in a few weeks, and give it a 4 just for the sake of it, so that the entire RPG community just implodes and #MaylanderReviewGate2017 continues.
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October 9th, 2017, 20:37
Originally Posted by you View Post
Are people suggesting that Maylander should change his rating? If so that is damn silly. While I might consider the game to have a different rating than Maylander; in no way should I (or imho anyone) suggest he change his rating. What they might do is compare this review to other reviews he has done and if they are concern that he is using different scale between the reviews then they should point out why they think such and ask him if he can expand.
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Sorry somehow I got confused - i didn't realize that folks were actually demanding (or suggesting) the reviewer change their scores.
I have not requested the review score be changed. That is not my call to make. Yet various people keep claiming to the contrary. So let me be clear. I disagree with the rating of the subject review but I do not ask the score be changed. I do not believe that is my call to make.

I have tried to explain the basis for my disagreement with the final rating. That hasn't worked out particularly well.

All of this is horribly uncomfortable. I've asked Myrthos to remove my registration from RPGWatch.

I've enjoyed my years here. Have enjoyed the people and posters here. Came here to relax and believe others do the same. Will miss all of the happy days and posts.

Regards.

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October 9th, 2017, 20:48
Originally Posted by RPGFool View Post
I have not requested the review score be changed. That is not my call to make. Yet various people keep claiming to the contrary. So let me be clear. I disagree with the rating of the subject review but I do not ask the score be changed. I do not believe that is my call to make.

I have tried to explain the basis for my disagreement with the final rating. That hasn't worked out particularly well.

All of this is horribly uncomfortable. I've asked Myrthos to remove my registration from RPGWatch.

I've enjoyed my years here. Have enjoyed the people and posters here. Came here to relax and believe others do the same. Will miss all of the happy days and posts.

Regards.

__
Say what? You really shouldn't take it that personal, you wrote an opinion and most other posters diasgreed with you thinking your reasoning was flawed. I have read this entire thread from the start and I'm pretty sure no one expects you to leave the forum becuase of it, to me that seems both sad and overly dramatic, and I hope you'll change your mind.

This is a forum for duscussion, and I can severaly disagree with someone in one thread while agreeing with them in the next, no hard feelings. That's how it's supposed to work, isn't it?

Anyway, I hope you change your mind but best wishes if you choose to leave.
Last edited by TomRon; October 12th, 2017 at 10:50.
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October 9th, 2017, 20:57
Originally Posted by RPGFool View Post
I have not requested the review score be changed. That is not my call to make. Yet various people keep claiming to the contrary. So let me be clear. I disagree with the rating of the subject review but I do not ask the score be changed. I do not believe that is my call to make.

I have tried to explain the basis for my disagreement with the final rating. That hasn't worked out particularly well.

All of this is horribly uncomfortable. I've asked Myrthos to remove my registration from RPGWatch.

I've enjoyed my years here. Have enjoyed the people and posters here. Came here to relax and believe others do the same. Will miss all of the happy days and posts.

Regards.

__
I would also not wish you to leave. I was personally trying to offer constructive criticism, because I felt you argued an emotional argument, and not a substantive one. I've read your posts over the years and my impression is that you´re a respectful poster, and I think it would be sad if you left the site. I've been snappy in posts at times, and I've regretted writing posts before, and that I think is something that makes us human. I always find it sad, when people can never back down or admit that they've made a mistake.
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October 9th, 2017, 21:36
Ok, here, RPGFool. If this is bothering you that much, why don't you write your own review of the game, and submit it to RPG Watch?

I thought this was going to be suggested sooner or later, but I guess not. It's an obvious "solution", you get to write your own review of the game, and if they are nice enough to publish it, then it seems to me that would be entirely fair.

Anyway, I really don't think people meant anything personal, this has turned into quite the saga, eh? We are all here to have fun, and I didn't detect any posts getting so offensive or personal, but I guess we all have different sensitivities.
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October 9th, 2017, 22:02
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Must have missed this one.

What I'm really tempted to do at this point is to review ELEX in a few weeks, and give it a 4 just for the sake of it, so that the entire RPG community just implodes and #MaylanderReviewGate2017 continues.
Yeah, but then you can no longer say you are honest in your reviews. But then again some reviewers make a living doing that.
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October 9th, 2017, 22:04
@RPGFool - leaving the site, because you disagree with a review and/or the rating would be a shame.

A lot of misunderstanding causes our 5 star system, that is different from every other site I know. The RPGWatch staff is working on that.

For me Divinity: Original Sin 2 is Very Good, because despite some bugs/flaws Larian has created something fresh, new, technically excellent out of my old favorite genre: A story driven RPG, with turn-based combat and lots of choices with consequences and many memorable characters.
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October 9th, 2017, 22:14
Originally Posted by Clocknova View Post
What I want to know is whether or not they fixed what I found to be the single biggest disappointment from the first game: the lack of a proper day/night cycle and NPC scheduling to go along with it. For me, the fact that the game world in D:OS was completely static and virtually nothing that the player did had any effect on it was a huge letdown, and destroyed any sense of immersion or atmosphere that the developers clearly tried so hard to create. I mean, this is something that Ultima was doing in 1987. Why is this feature so often ignored? Couldn't they have at least written a few scripts to do things like, say, clean up all those dead bodies outside the walls of Cyceal after the player clears the area of orcs and undead? Don't those dead Legionnaires deserve a proper burial?
See this is not something that should affect a review IMHO. Having a day/night cycle may be important to you, but to me not only it is unimportant, it's actually detrimental to my enjoyment. It's what I include in the 'suspension of disbelief', i.e. what I see on my screen is not what my characters experience. I don't see my characters peeing or eating or sleeping, that doesn't mean they're not doing it, it's just unimportant/uneventful. Same way, when I go to town and see an NPC doesn't mean the NPCs are just standing there 24/7, it just means that my characters went there, asked around and found the NPC, if it was night they waited, etc. I don't need to see all that happening as it's uneventful. In games that force me to wait doing nothing until a certain time when the NCPs leave their homes I actually hate that part.
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