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October 23rd, 2017, 17:22
Playing devil's advocate, I don't think the point of profitability is anywhere near 1million copies for a Piranha Bytes game. It's not like they have to pay 100 million dollars for a Bethesda-level marketing campaign afterall !
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October 23rd, 2017, 17:29
Originally Posted by crpgnut View Post
Basically, the whole game is level gated. You need to be level 10 or so to really go anywhere safely. After you get full armor and a decent weapon, most of the world opens up. Trouble is, most folks stop playing before they get to the good parts, which is why PB is always on the verge of bankruptcy.
The game is barely gated at all. If an enemy is too strong, you can either sneak, run past, or go around it 90% of the time. I think they did a near-perfect job with enemy placement.

The alternative would have been level-scaling, and I think most people would agree that we already have enough games that do that.
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October 23rd, 2017, 19:15
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
The game is barely gated at all. If an enemy is too strong, you can either sneak, run past, or go around it 90% of the time. I think they did a near-perfect job with enemy placement.

The alternative would have been level-scaling, and I think most people would agree that we already have enough games that do that.
The world is not level gated at all. I don't know why nut think that. Yes there are monsters whom you cannot kill but its not like a large area is full of such monsters and there is no way to avoid them. I have just wondered pretty much all over the map doing simply sight seeing only and I had no issues running pass any high level monsters. I prefer this design to Skyrim like level scaling any day.
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October 23rd, 2017, 19:26
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
The alternative would have been level-scaling, and I think most people would agree that we already have enough games that do that.
Level scaling can go to hell.
Its so overused and frankly I'm sick of it. After an hour of gameplay you tend to be so overpowered that the rest of the game becomes a grind to finish. Nothing to overcome, nothing exciting to return to etc..

Give me a well designed world loosely gated by mobs with alternate paths any day.
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October 23rd, 2017, 19:42
Originally Posted by BrianOConnell View Post
Newcomers to this type of game won't enjoy this 10-15 level struggle and that is probably a good reason it isn't scoring well but I think so far it's their best game since Risen 1 (probably better than Risen 1) and will easily end up my game of the year.
I agree with the rest of your post, and expected this to be true before the game released, but it's actually scoring very well on Steam. 1600+ reviews and it still remains Mostly Positive with close to 3 out of 4 reviews being Positive (73% Positive so far.) I've been checking out the Steam forums for the game and am seeing quite a few newcomers stating it's their first PB game and they are enjoying it a lot. And it seems a lot of long-time PB fans are saying its their best game since Gothic 2, or even their best game ever.

Seems like PB managed a slight crossover hit with this game in some ways, even with its high level of entry and challenge, and still greatly pleasing the core fans of their games.
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October 23rd, 2017, 20:24
Well, Germans are renown for enjoying masochism so it should come as no surprise that their most popular RPGs require a lot of that.

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October 23rd, 2017, 20:32
If you think ELEX is too hard you are too weak.
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October 23rd, 2017, 20:37
Re: the game sales.

This game is always going to be very niche, and not sell very well. Most gamers will play it for 2 hours (or less), and quickly get a refund on steam.

Their core audience is going to be much smaller than just general gamers. First, there aren't that many rpg gamers who like hardcore rpg games like this, then, with the awkward unfriendly English translation and dialogues, that will turn off many other non-hardcore rpg gamers as well.

I think most of their fan base will be people like on rpg codex (where this game seems to be getting a great reception, in general) and some people here, but to be honest, that isn't many people, at least not in the wider gaming world.
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October 23rd, 2017, 20:42
Originally Posted by Arkadia7 View Post
This game is always going to be very niche, and not sell very well. Most gamers will play it for 2 hours (or less), and quickly get a refund on steam.

Their core audience is going to be much smaller than just general gamers. First, there aren't that many rpg gamers who like hardcore rpg games like this, then, with the awkward unfriendly English translation and dialogues, that will turn many other non-hardcore rpg gamers off as well.

I think most of their fan base will be people like on rpg codex (where this game seems to be getting a great reception, in general) and some people here, but to be honest, that isn't many people, at least not in the wider gaming world.
Maybe world wide - In Germany Piranha Bytes has a lot of fans and most of them like the game. -> Amzon.de

PS: The German voice actors are very good.
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October 23rd, 2017, 20:46
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
Maybe world wide - In Germany Piranha Bytes has a lot of fans and most of them like the game. -> Amzon.de

PS: The German voice actors are very good.
Oh, I don't doubt that they are popular in their home country. These issues such as the voice acting and dialogues won't be a factor in their native language, like it is in English.
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October 23rd, 2017, 20:54
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
If you think ELEX is too hard you are too weak.
Hard would be the wrong word IMO.

Putting a tyrannosaurus or two next to the starting location, then making it a huge effort to kill any odd rats you find, while making you hunt down fetch quests and loot stashes until you can afford to take on any combat isn't really my definition of hard. It's more a matter of creating illusions of hardness where progression has just been juggled around, like someone performing the three upturned cups trick.

Instead of having areas dedicated to player level, the area levels have just been put through a blender and your job is to to gradually unravel the linearity by jumping around like a pogo-stick enthusiast.

My idea of hard would be if there was a small raptor outside the starting area and you need to utilise all your skills to defeat it comfortably (ie: just going at it with your sword until it's dead wont work without lots of reloads). Then the next fight on your way to the next quest ups the anti a bit, etc etc. I fail to see how simply jumping over the raptor and coming back to it when you're OP can be equated to 'hard'.

If the game told the player at the start that the ideal way to advance in the game was to jump over all the enemies and maybe pick one or two out on your journey of questing and stash hunting, then would the game lose it's qualifier of hardness? Is it hard simply because it doesn't inform the player how to play the game? If so, then you could make any game hard by simply not telling anyone what the game requires before you start.

Ex: If someone didn't know how to play the card game Snap and you gave them half a deck of cards and told them to start laying cards, do you think they would consider it 'hard' to win any Snaps until they figured out what was going on? Does this mean Snap is a 'hard' game?
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October 23rd, 2017, 21:03
I don't know what you do in ELEX but I learn skills and plan my character to beat the next big boss/challenge. That the game is not telling me how to do this is most of the fun for me.
Often the game offers more than one solution. My colleague is playing the game at the same time and when we report each morning what we have done, we have solved many quests completely different.
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October 23rd, 2017, 21:09
OMG, I just watched this mutant monster one hit a large TREx. So I since lured a bunch of other monsters to this one beach area and this mutant monster and his kid (?) are taking care of everything. Some time later in the game I will come back for the loot . . . . . . muhahahahahahahahah
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October 23rd, 2017, 21:14
Overall I find this game to be a welcome edition to the genre. Even though I'm not real big on either Larian or PB, it's nice to have more options in the crpg world. I own all of PB's library and I've never touched Gothic 2, Risen 1 or Risen 2. I just buy them to support more crpgs.

The game definitely picks up once you level up and get gear. Difficulty is only in what you need to know before exploring. You should play around in Goliet until you've leveled up enough to equip a good weapon and buy armor. After doing that Elex plays like a mix of 2 parts Fallout to 1 part Skyrim.
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October 23rd, 2017, 21:19
Am I the only one that wants to see more example pictures of German masochism?
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October 23rd, 2017, 21:23
Originally Posted by Dajjer View Post
OMG, I just watched this mutant monster one hit a large TREx. So I since lured a bunch of other monsters to this one beach area and this mutant monster and his kid (?) are taking care of everything. Some time later in the game I will come back for the loot . . . . . . muhahahahahahahahah
I did the same thing with the Troll at the small camp. Lure the 7-8 Reavers over to the Troll and watch him smash them to bits. Then I saw the two oil barrels and came up with a better idea. If you can find a way to kill all those mobs yourself, it'll give you close to a 1000 XP and a couple hundred elexit.
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October 23rd, 2017, 21:31
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
Maybe world wide - In Germany Piranha Bytes has a lot of fans and most of them like the game. -> Amzon.de

PS: The German voice actors are very good.
Arkadia7 is just making things up. To what he said, there were over 21,000 people in-game yesterday, and the game is getting great reviews on Steam. No one is "just playing for 2 hours and refunding it". Almost all the reviews that are posted are after people have played several hours, some much more than several.

Almost 1700 reviews on Steam now and they are 73% Positive. Mostly Positive. That does not support the theory that people don't like the game, are getting refunds or that this type of game has no fans. It has actually been received much better than anticipated if you ask me, given the fact PB makes more hardcore-ish RPGs. I expected Mixed reviews out the gate, so this has been a pleasant surprise for me but I'm sure for PB as well.

There is nothing masochistic about the game. I have only died a handful of times and its because I wasn't paying attention and took the game world for granted. It's challenging but completely manageable, and most of all, fun, and a refreshing change of pace from RPGs where you can completely shut your brain off for the majority of the game.
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October 23rd, 2017, 21:32
Originally Posted by lackblogger View Post
Hard would be the wrong word IMO.

Putting a tyrannosaurus or two next to the starting location, then making it a huge effort to kill any odd rats you find, while making you hunt down fetch quests and loot stashes until you can afford to take on any combat isn't really my definition of hard. It's more a matter of creating illusions of hardness where progression has just been juggled around, like someone performing the three upturned cups trick.

Instead of having areas dedicated to player level, the area levels have just been put through a blender and your job is to to gradually unravel the linearity by jumping around like a pogo-stick enthusiast.

My idea of hard would be if there was a small raptor outside the starting area and you need to utilise all your skills to defeat it comfortably (ie: just going at it with your sword until it's dead wont work without lots of reloads). Then the next fight on your way to the next quest ups the anti a bit, etc etc. I fail to see how simply jumping over the raptor and coming back to it when you're OP can be equated to 'hard'.

If the game told the player at the start that the ideal way to advance in the game was to jump over all the enemies and maybe pick one or two out on your journey of questing and stash hunting, then would the game lose it's qualifier of hardness? Is it hard simply because it doesn't inform the player how to play the game? If so, then you could make any game hard by simply not telling anyone what the game requires before you start.

Ex: If someone didn't know how to play the card game Snap and you gave them half a deck of cards and told them to start laying cards, do you think they would consider it 'hard' to win any Snaps until they figured out what was going on? Does this mean Snap is a 'hard' game?
In Gothic 2 Xardas specifically stated not to wander off the path. While the game instructions did nothing of the sort the game world did give you the appropriate advice.

As far as your ideal area of a starting process, that would not work for me. I don't want some beatable monster to build up my confidence early in the game. Your card game example is off because one player is not really playing the game if he only has half the cards.

IMO the Elex world would be more like a martial arts class. You and perhaps your buds or sibblings enter the class with no knowledge or skills but there are instructors and senior students. If you want to challenge the senior students to a dual you can but you are probably going to lose. Most of your early play fights are with the other nubes in the class. After a while your skills and your knowledge increases and you become more proficient and then you can challenge senior students "comfortably."

OTOH, your pogo-stick analysis has plenty of merit. I'm down with that. If the neighborhood bully lives next door to me. I'm fine with working out and going to my martial arts class. Bidding my time. Because one day he's gonna tug on my cape . . . .
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October 23rd, 2017, 21:40
Originally Posted by crpgnut View Post
I did the same thing with the Troll at the small camp. Lure the 7-8 Reavers over to the Troll and watch him smash them to bits. Then I saw the two oil barrels and came up with a better idea. If you can find a way to kill all those mobs yourself, it'll give you close to a 1000 XP and a couple hundred elexit.

Yea, I wrote about that a couple pages back, lots of fun. I'm too lame with my bow now so I doubt I could accurately hit it but I will keep that in mind. BTW, theres one area in the game where this Reaver surrounded himself with mines. I tried to lure him through the mines and I would watch the fun from a short distance. He ran right through the exploding mines and killed me while my jaw was dropped after saying WTF!!! Another area on my to-do revenge list.
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October 23rd, 2017, 21:42
Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
Arkadia7 is just making things up. To what he said, there were over 21,000 people in-game yesterday, and the game is getting great reviews on Steam. No one is "just playing for 2 hours and refunding it". Almost all the reviews that are posted are after people have played several hours, some much more than several.

Almost 1700 reviews on Steam now and they are 73% Positive. Mostly Positive. That does not support the theory that people don't like the game, are getting refunds or that this type of game has no fans. It has actually been received much better than anticipated if you ask me, given the fact PB makes more hardcore-ish RPGs. I expected Mixed reviews out the gate, so this has been a pleasant surprise for me but I'm sure for PB as well.

There is nothing masochistic about the game. I have only died a handful of times and its because I wasn't paying attention and took the game world for granted. It's challenging but completely manageable, and most of all, fun, and a refreshing change of pace from RPGs where you can completely shut your brain off for the majority of the game.
I'm not "just making things up". I have read several negative reviews on steam saying that they got a refund in the time allowed, which is 2 hours or less. Anyone can go to steam, filter the reviews by negative only, and they can find some reviews saying this.

That said, sure, my statement has some opinion involved in it too. I think many gamers will not like this game because the first impressions of it are very rough.
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