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Default CRPG Analyzer: A checklist for computer role-playing games

December 16th, 2020, 16:41
I'd really like to see reviews in a system with an "individually weighable" score.
The reviewer would give scores only to parts of the game (combat, story, exploration, visuals, sound, music, …). Then the user can give weights to the parts and the individual score is computed. The reviewer might also set his own weights as default so there still would be an "official" score given by the reviewer.
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December 16th, 2020, 17:08
You can apply this easily by yourself - just apply weights to each checklist point that add to 1.0. (you can zero out some checklist points, by that method).

Decide for each point of the checklist, if it is fulfilled, if <yes> add the weight to your score. (You could even say: this is fulfilled to 50% and add just add half the weight to your score).

If the final value is 0.75 - you have a 75% score according to your preferences.

But again:
This checklist was originally made to evalute the "CRPGness" of a game. Not if it is a good a or a bad game.
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December 16th, 2020, 19:53
As the reviewer evaluation would be needed, the player could only give weigth and temper reviewer opinions with player preferences. It's still better than just consider the reviewer evaluation.

A database of criteria rates could clue to a player what reviewers match him better for a specific genre. Even better the database would allow identify players types, so a new player that registered 10 games, could be matched to another player having registered 100 games and then profit from the better analysis to determine best suited reviewers.

No more hassle to select games to buy, the database could send to each user their next list of games to buy, cool.

The dust in the machine is how rate anything is difficult and imprecise, already hard for a reviewer, but even harder for a player that mainly want play games. A number looks so objective and precise, nothing can be more faithful, but in fact words do the job better.

For other aspects like people changing along time, I suppose this could be managed with big data.
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December 24th, 2020, 12:23
The problem is, that "fun" is defined differently for every kind of player … An Action-RPG player might want less story than a Story-Player.
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March 9th, 2021, 14:44
This tool work much better if you have an excel list of
What game
Fit which feature on the checklist
total to how many point
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March 31st, 2021, 20:17
I'm toying with it, it's an interesting tool, also because of the questions that lead to its current state.

I'm sorry if that was discussed before, I haven't read all posts

1) Form

I was checking it in the case of Encased. I couldn't save though because the name was not recognized. Later I came back to the first page with the name and only then the window with candidate names appeared, when I selected 'Encased' it erased the whole form (but it seemed possible to save it at the end this time, if I filled it in completely).

I noticed that some pages wouldn't pass even though all choices were made. Simply clicking again on the choices solved the problem, some of them seem to appear as chosen but are not. Not sure where it's coming from (I'm using Chrome, Win10).

2) Content

Regarding the Design, I checked 3 terms in https://ultimatepopculture.fandom.com/wiki and https://www.merriam-webster.com/, FWIW
  • Arcanepunk (fantasy world where both magic and science exist)
  • Steampunk (science fiction dealing with 19th-century societies dominated by historical or imagined steam-powered technology)
  • Cyberpunk (science fiction dealing with future urban societies dominated by computer technology)

I have some trouble selecting a Design, opted for Sci-fi even though it's alternate past history, but what should have looked modern back then (70's). I also find it difficult to separate the Design from the Setting since both go hand in hand.

I put Isometric view, even though very few games are really isometric nowadays, it's an "angled top-down 3D view" by lack of a better term. Isometric is close enough I suppose

Some items got me confused:
- In Elements / Story / Immersion: "Your main character is defined." (NSM10) What do you mean, is it predefined like The Witcher 3 vs selected background? Or defined vs there is no story for the PC?
- In Fun Features / Exploration: "Is Auto-Mapping available?" (FE1) What do you mean? For example, a map which is revealed along its exploration, is that auto-mapping?
- In Fun Features / Story: "Are there pre-selected options?" (FS4) Pre-selected options where?

Is it worth it, if I do it correctly and save the result? Is it possible to edit it later?
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March 31st, 2021, 21:09
You can save after each step and continue to edit later.

Currently the BB-Export button doesn't seem to work to export your analysis to forum-code. @Arhu ?

I think Your main character is defined should mean pre-defined.

Auto-mapping = the game maps the gameworld automatically when you explore it.

Are there pre-selected options? = you can't choose by yourself the game decides where the story is going.
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March 31st, 2021, 21:37
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
Currently the BB-Export button doesn't seem to work to export your analysis to forum-code. @Arhu ?
What I saw is that it produced BB Code initially, but after I completed the first page, it didn't produce anything anymore.
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April 1st, 2021, 11:18
Here's what I got. It's strange, Elem. Status is checked but red, and I have no idea what Feat. Status is. No BB Code.

EDIT: scratch that, when I reload, they're all checked and green. Maybe it doesn't update the status until the tool page is opened from the URL instead of the button's hash links.


And this result:


So I'm still not sure whether that's shared to anyone else, or linked to the database? How are you planning to use this tool, out of curiosity? Copy/paste in reviews?
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April 1st, 2021, 12:38
It was planned to copy/paste the BB-Code into the forum - maybe send @Arhu a PM. He's our Web designer.
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April 1st, 2021, 13:11
There's lots of javascript errors. Will have to have a look. I'm guessing the libraries are out of date. Elem. Status and Feat. Status should get checkmarks once you answered all items in steps 4 and 5.
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April 1st, 2021, 13:22
Originally Posted by Arhu View Post
There's lots of javascript errors. Will have to have a look. I'm guessing the libraries are out of date. Elem. Status and Feat. Status should get checkmarks once you answered all items in steps 4 and 5.
I've always hated Javascript But it's efficient and lightweight so I suppose it's there to stay. Still more convenient than PHP I suppose.

Anyway, just filling in the pages was interesting in itself, it raises some questions and items to put in a review. If the tool is updated at some point, I'm interested to know and, of course, willing to do a test if that helps

EDIT: Steps 4 and 5 were completed, but the status was not updated when I came back on "I. Game". I did a few back and forth trying to understand what was missing, but it was still like the screenshot. When I loaded the page on a new Chrome tab, they were all green. Not a real problem.
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March 2nd, 2022, 18:37
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
RPGjeuxvideo has 20 points for defining an RPG (in French).
I can translate a part if that helps. Maybe not the whole text, but the 20 items, or something that is not clear.
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March 2nd, 2022, 18:50
I could understand most of it via Google translate - but a translation of a native speaker would be nice as well.
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March 2nd, 2022, 21:07
Out of curiosity, I checked and the Google translation is not bad at all, I'm surprised.

The 20 items (titles) are fine, actually, and their content mostly OK, if not always very idiomatic or elegant. For 14 I'd just say "romance" but the translation is faithful.

One sentence in 11 (essentials - I prefer "life needs") was funny, "you can easily sleep all night and still be up" which is of course "you can easily spend a sleepless night and still stay on your feet" In its defense, the French sentence uses the wrong verb.

I'm skeptical about interactive mini-games (17), should that be part of a checklist for an RPG? Why not add a strategic management layer, that we see in several RPGs? I think those are extensions to vary the game, but they're mostly disruptive.

The 20 points:
Spoiler


PS: I retrieved the KoTC2 article they mentioned at the beginning, which was translated to French. The original is here (Update #2: My RPG design philosophy and dungeon-design process!).
Last edited by Redglyph; March 2nd, 2022 at 21:18.
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May 22nd, 2022, 20:14
I had a good look at the CRPG analyzer code. Unfortunately it's not an easy fix. The error is related to an unsafe eval function that is used in one of the libraries that I used to create BBCode from all the data (jsrender). A fix was requested a few years ago by someone but was eventually rejected.

So the two options are: 1. allow unsafe eval functions globally (I'd rather not) or 2. rewrite that part of the code, for which I don't have the time yet with everything else going on.

Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
Anyway, just filling in the pages was interesting in itself, it raises some questions and items to put in a review. If the tool is updated at some point, I'm interested to know and, of course, willing to do a test if that helps
You can see what the bbcode looked like on page 23.
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May 22nd, 2022, 20:27
I understand. Anyway, the main functionality works fine, and since the website changes soon it wouldn't be a good idea to spend time on this right now.
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May 25th, 2022, 18:13
Originally Posted by Arhu View Post
So the two options are: 1. allow unsafe eval functions globally (I'd rather not)
Would it be possible to allow it, run the analyser, then turn it off again, aka only temporarily use of that function (with no other program or window running in the background) ?
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June 2nd, 2022, 15:23
Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
Regarding the Design, I checked 3 terms in https://ultimatepopculture.fandom.com/wiki and https://www.merriam-webster.com/, FWIW
FYI, lots of descriptions were missing, particularly for Design and Theme. I added them back in from the V1.02 text file.

Spoiler – Design:

Spoiler – Theme:


Any idea for a short blurb for the "Science" theme?

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
Would it be possible to allow it, run the analyser, then turn it off again, aka only temporarily use of that function (with no other program or window running in the background) ?
It's a global server setting and applies for everyone, so… not really. I'll try to fix it at some point. Soon-ish. Not before next week.

Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
So I'm still not sure whether that's shared to anyone else, or linked to the database? How are you planning to use this tool, out of curiosity? Copy/paste in reviews?
As HiddenX said, the BBCode function was the primary means of sharing the result on this forum.

Long term it would be cool if aspects of it could be integrated into our games database, with more automated options to display the results. For example, a game "CRPG score" page that takes the average of all user analyses and displays the result including comments for each element. Or some of it could be used in the game info boxes in newsbits.

It was always a lot of work for minor gain, because at first glance it can be very overwhelming. But if more people become interested in rating games that accurately, maybe it can grow naturally into something bigger. The most important points are "Must-have" and "Should have" - those should be easy enough to fill out quickly anyway. Also, the tool should work, first.
Last edited by Arhu; June 2nd, 2022 at 16:03.
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