Bard's Tale IV - Character Creation Video

Drithius said:

I can't stand anything Bethesda does in their design, so I tend to really lay it on them when I have the energy to do so. But there are so many on this site that seemingly complain about EVERYTHING.

Why doesn't this blobber have the character customization of a 10inch thick D&D manual? As if that's what's important in the genre.

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Some people have trouble liking stuff, that's true. But, in this case, Silver Coin has spoken positively about at least three games in the past week or so

We do have a few people who're seemingly negative about everything - like, say, mercy - but I find it's rare.

It's just that we tend to notice it more when it happens to games we're interested in - and less when it's about games we also dislike.

To me, there's nothing inherently wrong about liking or disliking stuff. My problem, if I have one, is when people confuse what people like with what they ARE like.

Certainly, that seems to be the case around here more often than I can remember.

We've always had the standard "I like this on principle and dislike this on principle" - like you, yourself, are full of. It's easy to spot.

I mean, if you can't find a single thing to like about something that millions of people love - then you have a problem with reality

joxer is also an excellent example of that kind of mindset.

Doesn't mean the overall product is objectively good or worth anything, but almost every game in the world has a few interesting things that are worth noticing.

That's not unusual, though, and most people suffer from this kind of thing, to some degree.

I'm totally still looking forward to this one, snarky comments will not dissuade me in the slightest. After a thirty year wait, it will be glorious!

I liked what I saw. Interestingly, the fighter elf has magical bonuses, so guess fighters can cast spells? Either that or it's a stupid combination to pick.

Maybe it is a defense against magic ?

wolfing said:

I liked what I saw. Interestingly, the fighter elf has magical bonuses, so guess fighters can cast spells? Either that or it's a stupid combination to pick.

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I'm just glad it's turn based, not the action-blubber nonsense of Grimrock.

Still not really impressed by what I've seen. Will definitely wait for reviews.

I'm really chuffed to hear that the re-mastered first Bard's Tale is supposed to be out later this month. Even allowing for patches and updates, that means my greedy mitts will be on it quite soon!!!

Drithius said:

Why doesn't this blobber have the character customization of a 10inch thick D&D manual? As if that's what's important in the genre.

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I'm only asking they make something that isn't shallower than Skyrim. This looks like a casual phone game. And yes, deep character building is important in party based CRPGs.

Drithius said:

The video clearly shows sub archetypes for the classes; ie Guardian vs Champion.

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They look like an unlockable ability at the end of the skill tree, not an entire class. That's nothing to get excited about.

Silver Coin said:

I'm only asking they make something that isn't shallower than Skyrim. This looks like a casual phone game. And yes, deep character building is important in party based CRPGs.

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Not that much with blobbers though. Thinking of Eye of the Beholder, Lands of Lore, Stonekeep, Ishar...they all basically have a system which is as shallow as it can get.

And more "komplex" systems often also come along with fake options. Like "here, increase strength on your mage, it's completely useless, but you can do it".

I'd take decent story and decent gameplay over overly complex character development any day. Anyway it will be as it will be the only question is will it be fun to play.

I'm just overjoyed to see a turn-based blobber with high production values. With the infatuation over RTwP isometric games of late, it's frustrating to see that this subgenre has received practically no attention.

Drithius said:

I'm just overjoyed to see a turn-based blobber with high production values. With the infatuation over RTwP isometric games of late, it's frustrating to see that this subgenre has received practically no attention.

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Wouldn't actually see the RTwP isometric games as direct competition but mostly all the generic looking crawlers like Grimrock, Fall of the Dungeon Guardian, Monkey Tavern and so on.

While the titles you mentioned would compete in the marketplace, the lack of turn-based mechanics completely changes the gameplay. As far as this distinct style of turnbased blobber goes, there hasn't been anything of note in the past decade+ aside from M&M Legacy & Starcrawlers

And now you get two a few months apart.

Drithius said:

While the titles you mentioned would compete in the marketplace, the lack of turn-based mechanics completely changes the gameplay. As far as this distinct style of turnbased blobber goes, there hasn't been anything of note in the past decade+ aside from M&M Legacy & Starcrawlers

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For me, Wizardry 8 was the last great turn-based blobber. M&M X was good too but not quite on the same level.

For me, combat is not the most interesting thing for this kind of game - so I tend to prefer real-time combat in this genre, simply because it's faster.

I'm into the exploration and immersion that comes with being a blobber - and, as such, those are the areas that will be most important to me.

I do love progression in all my games, though - and this looks more than fine when it comes to character complexity.

But if it's mostly combat, combat and more combat - I'll get tired of it pretty quickly.

I like the genre for much the same reason I like Fallout/Skyrim - for the dungeon delving and all that comes with it.

As a person that never played any Bard's Tale games I am happy with what was shown so far. I just hope the game is not too short and combat is tactical and hard enough.

Darth Tagnan said:

For me, combat is not the most interesting thing for this kind of game - so I tend to prefer real-time combat in this genre, simply because it's faster.

I'm into the exploration and immersion that comes with being a blobber - and, as such, those are the areas that will be most important to me.

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You got any examples of the last 10 years or so where this is all true?
Realtime+Immersion+Exploration

Personally I can't think of any.

Kordanor said:

You got any examples of the last 10 years or so where this is all true?
Realtime+Immersion+Exploration

Personally I can't think of any.

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Ehm, I can't make it true for YOU. I'm not omnipotent

The genre is rare, these days.

But Grimrock 2 and Vaporum are both quite good in all three ways.

However, I prefer immersive sims for these aspects, but they're even rarer - it seems.

Darth Tagnan said:

Ehm, I can't make it true for YOU. I'm not omnipotent

The genre is rare, these days.

But Grimrock 2 and Vaporum are both quite good in all three ways.

However, I prefer immersive sims for these aspects, but they're even rarer - it seems.

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Was a genuine question. Didn't play Grimrock 2 after I was disappointed by Grimrock 1 quite a bit due to the lack of good combat (which was worse than real time combat in ishar or Eye of the beholder) and lack of exploration (generic labyrinth, nothing to find, non-existent story). Can't judge Grimrock 2 though.

Vaporum I didn't play either. I actually just joined their discord channel yesterday as they invited people to discuss about crawlers on facebook. Mentioned there that I miss exploration in recent crawlers and things to find. Which seems to have been misunderstood quite a bit by a developer as he was talking about secrets. So while I can't really judge Vamporum…I have my doubts.

Kordanor said:

Was a genuine question. Didn't play Grimrock 2 after I was disappointed by Grimrock 1 quite a bit due to the lack of good combat (which was worse than real time combat in ishar or Eye of the beholder) and lack of exploration (generic labyrinth, nothing to find, non-existent story). Can't judge Grimrock 2 though.

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I didn't care much for the first Grimrock, either - though I liked it well enough overall.

Grimrock 2 is much better in every way - but it's not amazing or anything.

Just a really good blobber with everything such a game should have.

Vaporum I didn't play either. I actually just joined their discord channel yesterday as they invited people to discuss about crawlers on facebook. Mentioned there that I miss exploration in recent crawlers and things to find. Which seems to have been misunderstood quite a bit by a developer as he was talking about secrets. So while I can't really judge Vamporum…I have my doubts.

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It's down to what you expect from the genre. If you look at the great ones, including Dungeon Master, Black Crypt, Lands of Lore, Captive, Eye of the Beholder - and so on, they were never THAT rich in terms of exploration or lore, anything like that.

But standards were different then, and we didn't expect as much it seems.

Both Vaporum and Grimrock 2 compare very, very favorably to the games I just mentioned, but they're still just blobbers. They're not as strong in terms of exploration as the best CRPGs - not by a long shot.

For my part, I find the very best exploration-oriented games to be immersive sims like Prey, Deus Ex or System Shock - but they're also very expensive productions compared to these, smaller, indie projects.

Then comes something like Skyrim or Fallout 4 - simply because of the ridiculous amount of content.

But there's not a single dungeon in Skyrim or Fallout 4 that could possibly compare to a game that's dedicated to a single dungeon or "space station" - like Prey or Ultima Underworld.

If you look at modern immersive sims, then they actually originate from blobbers more than any of the other subgenres.

Dungeon Master was the first game to truly move it into the immersive real-time style - which was the next step of games like Bard's Tale.

I'd say Ultima Underworld was the first real evolution from Dungeon Master - and we haven't seen as big a step forward since then, though I'd say games like System Shock 2 and Prey represent the peak of the immersive sim genre.

Anyway, I'm starting to ramble with this history lesson