SpiderWeb Games...

ToddMcF2002

ToddMcF2002

SasqWatch
Joined
October 18, 2006
Messages
3,593
Location
Boston MA
Finally got around to starting the remake of Avernum Escape from the Pit. Its been a while since I've played a Vogel game. There is an easy way to play his system and a hard way. Well I forgot some cardinal rules and I'm paying for it. I make a similar mistake in Geneforge 4 and almost couldn't complete it. Funny how easy it is to make this games difficult. For example - I forgot you need to invest early and often with Strength or Intelligence to get the compound effect. So Escape from the Pit is pretty difficult. Harder than Avadon but a wide margin if you fail to optimize your party. But its a blast. And boats! I wasn't expecting that :). Challenging and great fun.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
3,593
Location
Boston MA
Yeah I loved escape from the pit. So much to explore and find! What is your party build? I think I had a soldier, archer, priest and sorcerer which worked fine. I seem to remember the archer wasn't great at lower levels but was pretty deadly at higher levels.
 
Joined
Apr 13, 2012
Messages
1,901
Location
UK
Excellent move Todd, glad you're digging the classic charms of Avernum.

For some nostalgia, I just had another look at my old Escape From the Pit thread. This was also my first introduction to Spiderweb games. (I finished with a pretty traditional party - Beserker, Archer, Shaman, Sorcerer)

https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18136

I agree on the boats too - that gave me such a strong Ultima IV-V feeling at the time and makes exploration quite rich and rewarding. Like you guys no doubt, I'm looking forward to the next one. :)
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
1,975
Location
Australia
I basically have two tanks (one sword & shield the other halberd) a priest and a sorceress. I basically walk around with mind wards and for tougher battles inch close and buff with war chant, protection & haste outside of combat. There are now 3 battles I have to walk away from:

- The giant bounty. You can’t prep buffs or even wards in the open world so it’s suicide for me. I’m 80% dead after the first round
- the island fort top floor. I can clear it but the slime shells get me anyway. I noticed that if you summon a slime shell you create a zero damage impasse that occupies most of them but you can’t summon your choice so it’s not a viable tactic
- roving band of 6 Slith priests outside the Slith Temple. Ironically I’ve cleared the temple but that band is in a no buff zone and it’s over almost instantly because of the lack of mind ward and all six summon
I can’t wait to get strong enough to go back and redrum all those scumbags!
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
3,593
Location
Boston MA
I'm finding out now that the scope of this game is far beyond the Geneforge series or Avadon. Level 20 and barely into the main cave? I'm may have to start taking notes on where the settlements and landmarks are. I've left a few barriers behind and the more I play the more concern I have that I'll forget where I saw something. Big game.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
3,593
Location
Boston MA
Are the remakes significantly different from the originals? I played the originals back in the day and wondering if it is worth picking up one of the remakes to give it a shot.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
3,119
Location
Sigil
I didn't play the originals so I'm not speaking with authority, but from what I understand convos and maps are broadly the same (with tweaks), but there are lots of changes to the engine and mechanics such as spells, character progression, secret doors, combat, enemy creatures, overland travel, etc etc.
 
Joined
Apr 13, 2012
Messages
1,901
Location
UK
bjon045 said:
Are the remakes significantly different from the originals? I played the originals back in the day and wondering if it is worth picking up one of the remakes to give it a shot.
Click to expand...

I also wanted to know the differences as I have the original collection, and wanted to know if it is worth getting the new versions (particularly since they are now discounted on Humble).
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
2,818
Location
United Kingdom
ToddMcF2002 said:
I'm finding out now that the scope of this game is far beyond the Geneforge series or Avadon. Level 20 and barely into the main cave? I'm may have to start taking notes on where the settlements and landmarks are. I've left a few barriers behind and the more I play the more concern I have that I'll forget where I saw something. Big game.
Click to expand...

Yes, they certainly are big. Which is both good and bad. Good because more of what you like is always good. Bad because towards the end you do run into some really draining backtracking combined with complete confusion about what you have to do where. The difficulty will also spike quite dramatically in the last couple of hours. Hence while most people who get that far do like the games, they also find themselves quite burned out upon completion, and it's a rare soul who marathons more than one or two games in the series in concurrence.
 
Joined
Nov 1, 2014
Messages
4,778
Avernum: Escape from the Pit was my second spiderweb game after Avadon, which was the first one with the current graphics. But Avernum: EftP is still my farvorite game from them so far due to the freedom compared to Avadon and the difficulty compared to Avernum 2 which was quite a bit easier.
I played on torment and it took me 159h (including all achievements) and by that it was also my longest spiderweb game so far. Unfortunately I didn't use to do Let's Plays back then yet, would have loved to look into what I did back then. ^^

Anyways, I don't remember anymore that there was any option to really get stuck. It was extremely hard though on that difficulty, if not the hardest game I played yet, and I remember that I was constantly running against enemies, dying on multiple attempts, to then turn around, search other enemies to come back later and try it again...because it wasn't anything easier left. ^^

Had tons of fun with that one and I am looking forward to the new one.
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
4,699
I started with Geneforge 4 and went back to play 1-3 without pausing. But they are shorter games.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
3,593
Location
Boston MA
This really is an example of how Vogel understands game balance. Some fights scream "come back later" but the ones on the edge are winnable if you throw everything you got at them. Good rewards too if you stretch to achieve. I had to "sacrifice" one of my tanks last night to keep mobs busy while I took down something else. Hated doing it but hey there are always experience crystals to catch up! I don't envy the task of designing in game balance but I do recognize that Vogel really knows his shit. Bravo Jeff.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
3,593
Location
Boston MA
Maybe it's time to check out some SW games again. I'm sort of in an old-school mood.
 
Geneforge 4 is still my hands down favorite. Strong story and interesting world. But this is excellent too. Feels very open world. Story a bit more marginal but still good.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
3,593
Location
Boston MA
Overall I prefer the Avernum games myself, but there is nothing wrong at all with the Geneforge series. Maybe it's just a matter of preference, in my case maybe the Avernum games were more melee friendly, or at least seemed that way to me.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
18,966
Location
Holly Hill, FL.
Partially agree. My first run was a melee character with a few Dryak creations I kept leveling up and only replaced them half way through with Cryo-Dryaks. I was able complete the game and I had a few bitchin swords, one dripping with acid if I recall. But it goes without saying that the "easiest" path is Shaper + Vlish. In 1-3 I did Vlish and Gazers if I recall. But still loved my GF4 melee guy.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
3,593
Location
Boston MA
I really disliked the summoning mechanics, restarted Geneforge a couple of times due to that and finally gave up on it. I just don't like how the XP is shared among party members, including summons, which kinda "force" you not to summon to get all the xp.
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
4,699
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom