Kingmaker - Chris Avellone Interview

With Baldur's Gate being as large and diverse as it was, turn-based would just make an already slow game even slower. People would be falling asleep on their keyboards.

If anything in the Infinity Engine games bored me it was the terrible combat. Tactical turn-based combat would of been so much more engaging.

I'm not prejudicial against RTwP either, but if you're going to create a videogame adaption of a turn-based game, then make the videogame turn-based as well.

Silver Coin said:

If anything in the Infinity Engine games bored me it was the terrible combat. Tactical turn-based D&D combat would of been so much more engaging.

I'm not prejudicial against RTwP either, but if you're going to create a videogame adaption of a turn-based game, then make the videogame turn-based as well.

Click to expand...

If the game doesn't interest you, don't play it and stop bitching plain and simple.

It does interest me

I didn't know "boring and generic" game is interesting

I never said it looks boring, but it does look generic. That's okay though, as long as it has…

- Good writing
- Strong encounter design
- Well designed quests
- Choices and reactivity
- Feeling of exploration
- Decent balancing

If it can deliver on those six things, then I'll overlook how generic and unoriginal it is.

I'm actually hoping it will confine itself to the River Kingdoms, which is your fairly standard fantasy pseudo-medieval setting. That generic fantasy setting is not a problem to me - it's more that experiencing the world of Golarion as a patchwork of genres, rather like zones in a Mario game, would be immersion-breaking for me.

purpleblob said:

As I mentioned many times, I spent 90 hours on beta alone and that's just first two chapters. It didn't feel repetitive for me at all. Each combat was tough and required proper strategy, kingdom building will take time, and the story was engaging.

Also, no one is forcing you to play for 120 hours. Main content is roughly about 40 hours.

Click to expand...

What does the immersive mode under difficulty settings do?

Ripper said:

I'm actually hoping it will confine itself to the River Kingdoms, which is your fairly standard fantasy pseudo-medieval setting.

Click to expand...

The Kingmaker adventure module only takes place in the Stolen Lands, which itself is based heavily on the Savage Frontier from Forgotten Realms.

The problem with rtwp is that you have to get it just right...that isn't easy. Pace is super critical, and Baldur's Gate actually pulled it off successfully. It was slow enough to actually observe the battle as it happened, and enjoy the tactical aspects, but fast enough that it didn't get boring or take too long. They definitely somehow hit upon the Goldilocks principle, where it was damn near perfect.

From what I've seen, the combat looks somewhat fast in Kingmaker. Almost like you just direct your party at the monster, and they are smooshing things and there isn't much else to it. Maybe its because I am seeing low level enemies and low level battles in the videos, but it doesn't look very compelling like a Baldur's Gate style rtwp combat.

Anyway, I'm also somewhat surprised to see silver coin taking such a hard line position in favor of turn-based. Considering he is always singing the praises of Pillars of Eternity 2, which is also rtwp combat.

Anyhow, I do think there are several promising things about the game - the user interface design is fantastic, the rpg system looks very intricate and complex and interesting, and the world graphics- though a shade cartoony - are pleasing to the eye. It just comes down to if they totally missed the mark on the combat or not. If they screwed up the combat, I will probably skip it. If the combat is done to a point where it is consistently engaging and fun, again, like the Goldilocks Principle - not too easy, not too hard, not too fast, not too slow, but...just right. Then I will very likely get the game.

Arkadia7 said:

Considering he is always singing the praises of Pillars of Eternity 2, which is also rtwp combat.

Click to expand...

The difference is that they're trying to create a real-time game out of a turn-based system, whereas PoE2 was always designed to be real time. It reflects in the mechanics.

Pathfinder is meant to be turn-based, it's more fun turn-based, and I don't understand why they feel the need to remove the turn-based element. Same with Baldurs Gate.

Turn based combat would just kill it. Talk about boring and slow

There goes Silver Coin confusing his opinions with facts again.

wolfgrimdark said:

Turn based combat would just kill it. Talk about boring and slow

Click to expand...

Especially with dice-rolls. Misses, critical misses, ugh. ToEE was about the limit I could take of that sort of slow combat where a boss encounter could take an hour, mostly because of missed attacks.

Silver Coin said:

The difference is that they're trying to create a real-time game out of a turn-based system, whereas PoE2 was always designed to be real time. It reflects in the mechanics.

Pathfinder is meant to be turn-based, it's more fun turn-based, and I don't understand why they feel the need to remove the turn-based element. Same with Baldurs Gate.

Click to expand...

Fair enough. I guess I was getting a wrong impression from some of your posts, I was thinking maybe you were taking the stance that turn based is always superior or something. There are some old school rpgers who do take that view, and seem to despise any combat system that is not turn based. I tend to prefer turn based, but am open to rtwp if done right. Or when playing an action rpg.

People dissing turn-based combat on an oldschool CRPG forum

So, release time at 4PM CET. So that's 10AM EST USA if my calculations are correct. Who cares what time it is in Europe, anyway?

So by the time I get home from work tomorrow, this will have had plenty of time for the freak out and bad reviews after 9 minutes of gameplay and start to settle down. Probably will buy it.

Arkadia7 said:

From what I've seen, the combat looks somewhat fast in Kingmaker. Almost like you just direct your party at the monster, and they are smooshing things and there isn't much else to it. Maybe its because I am seeing low level enemies and low level battles in the videos, but it doesn't look very compelling like a Baldur's Gate style rtwp combat.

Click to expand...

Kingmaker is using round and character turns like in BG. They originally went with 6 seconds per rounds (it's the canonical value in D&D and I believe BG used it). I can't find mention that they changed it so I suspect it is still 6 seconds.

A lots of the beta videos are probably on normal which favor the player (instead of being core rules) with low level enemies.

By the way, you can pause on round ending and character turn ending…and many other things.

Hyperion said:

So, release time at 4PM CET. So that's 10AM EST USA if my calculations are correct. Who cares what time it is in Europe, anyway?

Click to expand...

:lol:

azarhal said:

Kingmaker is using round and character turns like in BG. They originally went with 6 seconds per rounds (it's the canonical value in D&D and I believe BG used it). I can't find mention that they changed it so I suspect it is still 6 seconds.

A lots of the beta videos are probably on normal which favor the player (instead of being core rules) with low level enemies.

By the way, you can pause on round ending and character turn ending…and many other things.

Click to expand...

huh, interesting stuff. I definitely will be checking youtube game play vids and reviews and comments here for all the first impressions! There is some excitement around this game, no question.