Gothic Newb Question: NotR - RPGWatch Forums
|
Your donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Games » General RPG » Gothic Newb Question: NotR

Default Gothic Newb Question: NotR

June 20th, 2010, 00:52
After enjoying Risen, I went and got Gothic 2 with Night of the Raven. I was wondering if a new player should install Night of the Raven before starting the game or if it's something to wait to do after you finish the original story in Gothic 2. What's your advice?
Steelbeard is offline

Steelbeard

Traveler

#1

Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

June 20th, 2010, 01:03
There is already Gothic 2 forum here, but I'd recommend you to install NotR and Community Patch v2.0. If you don't install NotR, you'll need to play the whole game again since NotR adds quests here and there, a bit like "Extended Edition of Gothic 2".

http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=22

And if you are having problems, follow these instructions: http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showp…60&postcount=6
Ergonpandilus is offline

Ergonpandilus

Ergonpandilus's Avatar
The Preacher

#2

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Seinäjoki, Finland
Posts: 494
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

June 20th, 2010, 01:09
Thanks! That answers my question. I just saw the Gothic section, so sorry for mucking up things here.
Steelbeard is offline

Steelbeard

Traveler

#3

Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

June 20th, 2010, 02:09
Originally Posted by Ergonpandilus View Post
I'd recommend you to install NotR and Community Patch v2.0.
Iīd advise against installing the Community Patch. From reading its thread on WoG it seems it rather creates more bugs than it fixes, especially in regards to addon world.
DeepO is offline

DeepO

DeepO's Avatar
deep outside

#4

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Prague
Posts: 2,436
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)

Default 

June 20th, 2010, 02:10
Originally Posted by Ergonpandilus View Post
There is already Gothic 2 forum here, but I'd recommend you to install NotR and Community Patch v2.0. If you don't install NotR, you'll need to play the whole game again since NotR adds quests here and there, a bit like "Extended Edition of Gothic 2".
The overlap isn't that big. NotR plays in the first two G2 chapters, and it has its own end sequence. You can stop there.

What's clear is that G2 Gold is the real thing. The only problem is that the add-on makes the game very hard according to today's standards.
Gorath is offline

Gorath

Gorath's Avatar
Prime Evil
Moderator
RPGWatch Team
Original Sin 1 & 2 Donor

#5

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,901
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)

Default 

June 20th, 2010, 02:34
I personally think Gothic 2 is better without the addon installed because it makes so many changes, and in my opinion bad changes. It's much more difficult because for some reason the designers thought it would be a good idea to just give every NPC maximum strength and dexterity, so a farmer with a tree branch can kill you if you're not careful, even in your swanky dragon hunters armour.

Since it's not exactly an easy game to begin with I'd recommend playing it once without the expansion installed, so you get the hang of it. Then play again with the expansion for an extra challenge. It will give you something new to look forward to as well.
human_male is offline

human_male

human_male's Avatar
Math and girls is hard.

#6

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 526
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

June 20th, 2010, 05:40
Other than the difficulty, which I didn't have a probelm with personally, I can't think of a single negative thing regarding NotR.
JDR13 is offline

JDR13

JDR13's Avatar
SasqWatch
Original Sin Donor

#7

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida, US
Posts: 27,331
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)

Default 

June 20th, 2010, 08:27
I never understood that "NOTR is difficult" thing.

Of course, if you try to play the game by "run towards enemies and click on them" like an ARPG, you will have problems, but that is true already for the vanilla game.
bkrueger is offline

bkrueger

Nothing to see here.

#8

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

June 20th, 2010, 08:44
Originally Posted by bkrueger View Post
I never understood that "NOTR is difficult" thing.

Of course, if you try to play the game by "run towards enemies and click on them" like an ARPG, you will have problems, but that is true already for the vanilla game.
I understand. People are dumb so they would rather like to kill everything that moves than think how to avoid something or how to survive difficult encounter. That's why we have level scalling like in Oblivion or enemies are very easy like in Mass Effect. Too bad because NotR's difficulty is just perfect, yet no one else did something like that.

Steelbeard -> My advice is to play Gothic first and when you complete it move to Gothic 2 NotR. As you should guess G2 continues story from the first Gothic.
--
<3
Konjad is offline

Konjad

Konjad's Avatar
Watch traitor from Codex

#9

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 712
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

June 20th, 2010, 17:26
Originally Posted by bkrueger View Post
I never understood that "NOTR is difficult" thing.
Me neither, and it's not like I consider myself particularly good at games. It starts off pretty difficult but then so did Gothic. The best strategy early on is to do as many non-combat quests as possible, and only then go off exploring. And once you acquire a certain weapon the game becomes almost too easy, at least for characters that primarily use melee combat.
DPB is offline

DPB

DPB's Avatar
Watchdog

#10

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 210
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

June 20th, 2010, 17:46
Originally Posted by Konjad View Post
I understand. People are dumb so they would rather like to kill everything that moves than think how to avoid something or how to survive difficult encounter.
Either that or people like to have fun playing games, not being frustrated by having to do the same thing over and over and over again, due to masochistic difficulties that only real fanbois can enjoy … funny how you can get the same result by turning the table.

Personally, I fought for ages trying to get a hold of a proper English version of NotR but when I finally got it, the whole difficulty issue turned me off so completely I lost all interest in it.
--
"Chess in particular had always annoyed him. It was the dumb way the pawns went off and slaughtered their fellow pawns while the kings lounged about doing nothing that always got to him; if only the pawns united, maybe talked the rooks around, the whole board could've been a republic in a dozen moves." - Commander Vimes in Thud! by Terry Pratchett
fatBastard() is offline

fatBastard()

fatBastard()'s Avatar
Hello, I'm a Zombaholic

#11

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just outside of Copenhagen
Posts: 805
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)

Default 

June 20th, 2010, 18:42
It's your fault you're dumb, not NotR's.
--
<3
Konjad is offline

Konjad

Konjad's Avatar
Watch traitor from Codex

#12

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 712
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

June 20th, 2010, 19:07
Originally Posted by fatBastard() View Post
Either that or people like to have fun playing games, not being frustrated by having to do the same thing over and over and over again, due to masochistic difficulties that only real fanbois can enjoy … funny how you can get the same result by turning the table.
No, you can not.
Konjadīs assessment is definitely closer to truth, though itīs not really about people being dumb or not, itīs about whether theyīre willing to play smart or not.

First, G2 with NotR simply isnīt a game for people who for whatever reasons adamantly dislike challenge in their games.

Second, there are no inherent "masochistic difficulties" in G2: NotR. If you donīt pay attention to your charīs development, available resources, circumstances etc., plus expect to be able to overcome every challenge you come across right away, then itīs rather certain you end up with these "masochistic difficulties", but thatīs not really the gameīs fault, is it?
In other words, only masochists in regards to G2: NotR are people who refuse to stop playing it dumb.

Third, the gameīs inherent challenges are well thought out and meaningful. They never require random luck or periodic grind sessions, they never include opponents whose strength just doesnīt make sense (aka level scaling) and they mostly yield suitable rewards, especially for a smart player who is able to come with means of overcoming them earlier than his charīs level would suggest.

And for what itīs worth, Iīm pretty sure that the beginning of G2 with NotR installed is actually rebalanced to be easier than in vanilla.
Last edited by DeepO; June 20th, 2010 at 19:43.
DeepO is offline

DeepO

DeepO's Avatar
deep outside

#13

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Prague
Posts: 2,436
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)

Default 

June 20th, 2010, 22:03
I've played both and NoTR is clearly more difficult. The LP's are down or the skills are more expensive (I forget which) and with the exception of Blood Flies which I think are weaker everything is pretty hard to kill. Orcs particularly. Sure by the end of the game you are laying waste to anything that moves but getting there was pretty tough. And the f*cking Boars…. my personal loathing for that particular opponent knows no bounds!

That being said I'd still go G2 + NoTR. Sure it is frustrating for lots of players but the reward of success makes it worth it.
--
"For Innos!"
ToddMcF2002 is offline

ToddMcF2002

ToddMcF2002's Avatar
SasqWatch

#14

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 3,526
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)

Default 

June 21st, 2010, 00:07
Lacking understanding for the difficulty of NotR is somewhat arrogant. Playing it unless you've tried either Gothic 1 or 2 before is very, very hard - not because combat is so hard or because you have to avoid "running towards stuff while clicking", but because talent points are so limited you really have to know what you're doing.

Taking on the biggest monsters later on as a Magician without a solid build is practically impossible; you won't have the mana or spells to do any damage at all.

Planning ahead is pretty much a requirement for playing NotR, or you won't even be able to hurt most monsters.

As always, I recommend playing G2 vanilla, unless we're dealing with a very patient player - NotR certainly makes G2 a much better experience, but it's also very hard.
Last edited by Maylander; June 21st, 2010 at 00:33.
Maylander is offline

Maylander

SasqWatch
Original Sin Donor

#15

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bergen
Posts: 7,337
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Send a message via MSN to Maylander

Default 

June 21st, 2010, 17:02
Originally Posted by DeepO View Post
No, you can not.
Konjadīs assessment is definitely closer to truth, though itīs not really about people being dumb or not, itīs about whether theyīre willing to play smart or not.

First, G2 with NotR simply isnīt a game for people who for whatever reasons adamantly dislike challenge in their games.

Second, there are no inherent "masochistic difficulties" in G2: NotR. If you donīt pay attention to your charīs development, available resources, circumstances etc., plus expect to be able to overcome every challenge you come across right away, then itīs rather certain you end up with these "masochistic difficulties", but thatīs not really the gameīs fault, is it?
In other words, only masochists in regards to G2: NotR are people who refuse to stop playing it dumb.

Third, the gameīs inherent challenges are well thought out and meaningful. They never require random luck or periodic grind sessions, they never include opponents whose strength just doesnīt make sense (aka level scaling) and they mostly yield suitable rewards, especially for a smart player who is able to come with means of overcoming them earlier than his charīs level would suggest.

And for what itīs worth, Iīm pretty sure that the beginning of G2 with NotR installed is actually rebalanced to be easier than in vanilla.
Hmmm, first of all using the words Assessment and Truth in the same sentence is rather suspect.

Let's see if I can remember a few of the top of my head … indeed:

1) The orc axe (I think it was an axe but it might have been different kind of weapon) you have to get for the smith in the early stages of the game. After trying 6 times to attempt to take on the single orc in the back woods behind the town, getting seriously beat up, going back trying to level some more and attempt again, I finally managed to complete the quest by luring the orc away from his cave, sprinting back to steal the axe and run away as fast as I could before the brute got back.

2) Then there's the lighthouse bandits overlooking the harbor onto of the hill. At least 10 attempts did it take to finally being able to take them out by hiding on the roof like a coward turning them into pincushions with my bow and arrow.

Then of course there are the dozens of encounters where you walked a little bit too far to the left/right of the road in middle of the day/night and thus attracted some hellish beats attention and before you could scream Oh Crap! you were turned into to something's snack.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that I didn't enjoy playing the Gothic games, but the frustration level in the beginning portions several times had me close to quitting them altogether and play something more enjoyable instead. For the first 2 games part, I'm glad I stuck with them but when reading about how much harder G2 became with NotR installed I completely lost interest in trying (never did manage to finish G3 though due to savegame corruption).
--
"Chess in particular had always annoyed him. It was the dumb way the pawns went off and slaughtered their fellow pawns while the kings lounged about doing nothing that always got to him; if only the pawns united, maybe talked the rooks around, the whole board could've been a republic in a dozen moves." - Commander Vimes in Thud! by Terry Pratchett
fatBastard() is offline

fatBastard()

fatBastard()'s Avatar
Hello, I'm a Zombaholic

#16

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just outside of Copenhagen
Posts: 805
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)

Default 

June 21st, 2010, 17:29
Great stories. Even if you were frustrated and on the edge throwing keyboard against the wall, I'll bet you never forget the experience and the feel when you finally managed to complete your guests. :woot:

That's why I like gothic games. At start you fear anything that moves, in the end vice versa.
Ergonpandilus is offline

Ergonpandilus

Ergonpandilus's Avatar
The Preacher

#17

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Seinäjoki, Finland
Posts: 494
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

June 21st, 2010, 18:14
[QUOTE]
Originally Posted by fatBastard() View Post
Hmmm, first of all using the words Assessment and Truth in the same sentence is rather suspect.

Let's see if I can remember a few of the top of my head … indeed:

1) The orc axe (I think it was an axe but it might have been different kind of weapon) you have to get for the smith in the early stages of the game. After trying 6 times to attempt to take on the single orc in the back woods behind the town, getting seriously beat up, going back trying to level some more and attempt again, I finally managed to complete the quest by luring the orc away from his cave, sprinting back to steal the axe and run away as fast as I could before the brute got back.
The smith throws this challenge very early on because he thinks nameless is a weakling. This doesn't however mean that his challenge should be completed right then. I remember clearly that you could question his motivations and get him to admit that beating an orc is not the easiest task. In return the smith offers you an optional way to gain his trust (killing few low level bandits).

Even though you can complete both of these quests to really impress him, the orc killing isn't required in the early game. Moreover there are 3 different orcs in new world. A scout in the woods, a warrior in some cave and an elite hidden in forrest behind some farm. The orc scout in the woods is the easiest to beat. It can be done one on one in melee combat but there are alternative options.

a) you can lure him the shadowbeast who is sleeping near by and let the beast take care of the orc. You can also lure him near the town guards.

b) There is always an option to use magic scrolls. A freeze scroll or two can be bought from the market place merchant. An other intresting option is to use transform magic..you will just have to do a quest or two for the crazy alchemist at the harbour.

c) you can accept the hunting mission from Bosmer's old aprentice. Then the guy will guide you towards the woods where the orc scout is hiding. Its much easier together.

Last but not least there is an abandoned orc axe in the hidden valley near Xardas tower just waiting to be discovered.

2) Then there's the lighthouse bandits overlooking the harbor onto of the hill. At least 10 attempts did it take to finally being able to take them out by hiding on the roof like a coward turning them into pincushions with my bow and arrow.
Once again this is not a low level challenge. Those bandits are really nasty. I think they are the most difficult bandits in the entire game.
Dez is offline

Dez

Dez's Avatar
Man with the hat
Original Sin 2 Donor

#18

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,397
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)

Default 

June 21st, 2010, 18:40
The Gothic games start difficult, and yes, NOTR is more difficult even than vanilla G2, but if you're careful and save often, you will find that there are still always ways and means of :"getting there" and even for grinding.

Pity you didn't get yourself Gothic Universe, Steelbeard. I agree with the posters who recommended starting with G1 for the story's sake.

On the other hand, the more faint-hearted seem rather put off by G1's controls.

Ironically, it's the only Gothic that I completely finished. (Well, it is also the shortest Gothic game). I interrupted my G2 playthough to rather restart in order to do NOTR, and then never got right to the end, and I've started G3 about 3 times, each time going a different route but never managing to make it to the end.

I should actually toss a coin and make a committment to start where I left off with at least one of them and finish the darn thing for a change..
RivianWitch is offline

RivianWitch

RivianWitch's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#19

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 744
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

June 21st, 2010, 18:52
Originally Posted by fatBastard() View Post
1) The orc axe (I think it was an axe but it might have been different kind of weapon) you have to get for the smith in the early stages of the game. After trying 6 times to attempt to take on the single orc in the back woods behind the town, getting seriously beat up, going back trying to level some more and attempt again, I finally managed to complete the quest by luring the orc away from his cave, sprinting back to steal the axe and run away as fast as I could before the brute got back.
I havenīt played G2 for some time, but I think you may have this quest a bit mixed up - you can find the orc axe in one cave behind the town, but thatīs actually an alternative route to finish the quest and you donīt have to deal with said orc at all, because heīs residing by the other town gates.
Anyway, if you want to get the axe from the orc himself, you can:
a) try to take him down yourself, which should quickly prove to be quite a bad idea, but itīs certainly possible to succeed, especially if youīre willing to use some of the rarer spell scrolls
b) one guy in town wants you to help him to hunt some beasts and since those reside in the same area as the orc, you may take advantage of it and use him to help you with the orc
c) you can lure the orc to guards at the town gate who will make a short process with him

This quest actually shows quite nicely some of G2īs strengths, I think.

Lighthouse bandits are pretty badass, but since itīs a side quest you can always leave them for later.

edit: Ah, Dez already addressed these, thatīs what I get for cooking a dinner instead of finishing the post first .

Originally Posted by fatBastard() View Post
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that I didn't enjoy playing the Gothic games, but the frustration level in the beginning portions several times had me close to quitting them altogether and play something more enjoyable instead. For the first 2 games part, I'm glad I stuck with them but when reading about how much harder G2 became with NotR installed I completely lost interest in trying (never did manage to finish G3 though due to savegame corruption).
As I mentioned earlier, Iīm quite sure NotR actually smoothens the difficulty curve in the beginning. For example, you get a strength boosting belt (or something similar) in Xardas tower, you get help with the bandits along the way to the city, etc., and I think this goes a bit further into the game (Lares can help you clear quite a nice chunk of the map, for example).

I know that NotR is a relatively difficult game, but itīs also a game which plays fair.

Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Taking on the biggest monsters later on as a Magician without a solid build is practically impossible; you won't have the mana or spells to do any damage at all.
Playing a mage in G2 was always more difficult (and required paying more attention to character building) than other two classes though.
In NotR, however, you can make your mage at least a bit more versatile - there are some nice dexterity based swords with quite low requirements. Thereīs also an added Ice Lance spell which makes a lot of difference when it comes to mageīs offensive abilities in early chapters.
Last edited by DeepO; June 21st, 2010 at 19:02.
DeepO is offline

DeepO

DeepO's Avatar
deep outside

#20

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Prague
Posts: 2,436
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)

Tags
gothic, night of the raven
RPGWatch Forums » Games » General RPG » Gothic Newb Question: NotR
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:43.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by DragonByte Security (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright by RPGWatch