The Outer Worlds - First Impressions @ PC Gamer - Page 3 - RPGWatch Forums
|
Your donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » The Outer Worlds - First Impressions @ PC Gamer

Default The Outer Worlds - First Impressions @ PC Gamer

December 10th, 2018, 12:24
Originally Posted by Silver View Post
Its only baiting if you believe the things SJWs do. That everything is racist,sexist etc etc and we've got to fix it. A position I'm sure 90% of people would disagree with.

Otherwise its a fair commentary on a general trend in entertainment products.
So, it's only baiting if you're one of the people it's baiting?
--
"Where can the horizon lie, when a nation hides its organic minds in a cellar, dark and grim? They must be very dim." David Bowie, All the Madmen (1970)
Ripper is offline

Ripper

Ripper's Avatar
Ngikufisela iwela

#41

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 8,615
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)

Default 

December 10th, 2018, 12:43
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
So, it's only baiting if you're one of the people it's baiting?
If you see the world in black and white then yes I'm sure its baiting.

Answer a simple question then I will post some news of dubious value which you will find amusing.

Ugly women only in games yes or no?
Silver is offline

Silver

Silver's Avatar
Spaceman
RPGWatch Team

#42

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 7,003
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)

Default 

December 10th, 2018, 13:14
Originally Posted by you View Post
But what game has done it well ?
Anomen romance in BG2 - yes, I'm serious.
--
Favourite RPGs: Baldur's Gate II, NWN: The Aielund Saga, Pathfinder: Kingmaker, Icewind Dale I, Stardew Valley
purpleblob is offline

purpleblob

purpleblob's Avatar
Princess

#43

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,599
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)

Default 

December 10th, 2018, 13:21
Originally Posted by Silver View Post
If you see the world in black and white then yes I'm sure its baiting.

Answer a simple question then I will post some news of dubious value which you will find amusing.

Ugly women only in games yes or no?

I think we need to look again at what was actually said, because you've injected all this other stuff that has nothing to do with it. I was responding to the original comment, with regard to romances:

Most of the times is just a trojan horse to go full sjw.
I just stated what I think that means - that the "SJW trojan horse" of romance refers to gay and transgender relationships in games. What else is it supposed to be referring to?

I didn't bring up the idea of baiting. As far as I'm concerned, he's just saying what he thinks, and I'm saying what I think. My point is that if you're going to characterise what I said as baiting, it's no more baiting than the original comment. I do find this an interesting feature of a certain mindset - they always react to the perceived unfairness of the response, while being oblivious to the provocation of their own comments, which they regard as fair play.

With regard to wanting "ugly women" in games(!), who decides what is an ugly woman?
--
"Where can the horizon lie, when a nation hides its organic minds in a cellar, dark and grim? They must be very dim." David Bowie, All the Madmen (1970)
Last edited by Ripper; December 10th, 2018 at 21:59.
Ripper is offline

Ripper

Ripper's Avatar
Ngikufisela iwela

#44

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 8,615
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)

Default 

December 10th, 2018, 13:53
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
I think we need to look again at what was actually said, because you've injected all this other stuff that has nothing to do with it. I was responding to the original comment, with regard to romances:

I just stated what I think that means - that the "SJW trojan horse" of romance refers to gay and transgender relationships in games. What else is it supposed to be referring to?
SJW refers to "perceived" injustices across a wide spectrum of issues, but its just another branch of feminism really. Its interesting you think it can only refer to gay and transgender issues however.

Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
I didn't bring up the idea of baiting. As far as I'm concerned, he's just saying what he thinks, and I'm saying what I think. My point is that if you're going to characteristise what I said as baiting, it's no more baiting than the original comment. I do find this an interesting feature of a certain mindset - they always react to the perceived unfairness of the response, while being oblivious to the provocation of their own comments, which they regard as fair play.
To have an opinion you have to risk being offensive. The original comment was commenting on a widely observed trend. Its hardly controversial at this point and it is commonly understood what is meant. While your injecting your own assumptions to get a rise out of people. Bait is bait.

Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
With regard to wanting "ugly women" in games(!), who decides what is an ugly woman?
Science. The golden ratio. You know it when you see it. Why can't you answer a yes or no question? To answer your question for you its whatever a feminist decides should be attractive to you.
Silver is offline

Silver

Silver's Avatar
Spaceman
RPGWatch Team

#45

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 7,003
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)

Default 

December 10th, 2018, 14:17
I'm not sure that I agree; but what I would like to see is an RPG where a romance causes a character fundamental behavior and decisions to change throughout the arch of story. The person is your foe they try to kill you; the person is your friend they help you; the person is your romance they give their life to save yours. Not just one brief moment in the story but throughout the campaign over and over as relevant events take place.
--
Could it be done - probably and it could probably be well done - the only issue is game size as their would be many paths that are not seen per play depending on the breath of the companions and their level of different interactions and moral/loyal compass. Lots of work…

Originally Posted by purpleblob View Post
Anomen romance in BG2 - yes, I'm serious.
you is offline

you

Lazy_dog
RPGWatch Donor
Original Sin 2 Donor

#46

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: usa - boston
Posts: 7,174
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)

Default 

December 10th, 2018, 14:21
@you

I would like to see a friendship path along those lines. Romance is complicated to do well and budgets are only getting bigger.
Silver is offline

Silver

Silver's Avatar
Spaceman
RPGWatch Team

#47

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 7,003
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)

Default 

December 10th, 2018, 14:36
Originally Posted by Silver View Post
SJW refers to "perceived" injustices across a wide spectrum of issues, but its just another branch of feminism really. Its interesting you think it can only refer to gay and transgender issues however.

To have an opinion you have to risk being offensive. The original comment was commenting on a widely observed trend. Its hardly controversial at this point and it is commonly understood what is meant. While your injecting your own assumptions to get a rise out of people. Bait is bait.

Science. The golden ratio. You know it when you see it. Why can't you answer a yes or no question? To answer your question for you its whatever a feminist decides should be attractive to you.
Well, thank you for illustrating the point I just made - when provocation comes from your perspective, it's perfectly fair and reasonable, but the response from the other side of the fence is unfair and baiting. So, you say, "to have an opinion is to risk being offensive", and I agree, but you're being entirely selective about which opinions are fair play.

I should be clear that I'm never actually doing what you call "baiting", because I'm not fishing for a response. I say what I say because I want to, and possibly for the amusement of people who can see what I see, but whether I get a direct response or not makes no difference.

With regard to the meaning of the original comment, I interpreted those aspects of the words that seemed to be applicable to "trojan horse romances". I understand what is meant by SJW in a wider context, but here, I think we know what is meant, if we're being honest.

As for the "ugly women" situation, who are you claiming is the objective arbiter of what is attractive - is it science or feminists?
--
"Where can the horizon lie, when a nation hides its organic minds in a cellar, dark and grim? They must be very dim." David Bowie, All the Madmen (1970)
Ripper is offline

Ripper

Ripper's Avatar
Ngikufisela iwela

#48

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 8,615
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)

Default 

December 10th, 2018, 14:49
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
Well, thank you for illustrating the point I just made - when provocation comes from your perspective, it's perfectly fair and reasonable, but the response from the other side of the fence is unfair and baiting. So, you say, "to have an opinion is to risk being offensive", and I agree, but you're being entirely selective about which opinions are fair play.
Not really. There is plenty of evidence for the harm SJWs do to a games reception. Going Full SJW can only refer to the most extreme moralizing and puritanical elements of it. Only cherry picking of hateful responses can lead one to assume all complaints about it must be homophobia/transphobia. It is not reasonable to assume that is the complaint of 90% of people complaining about it.

Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
I should be clear that I'm never actually doing what you call "baiting", because I'm not fishing for a response. I say what I say because I want to, and possibly for the amusement of people who can see what I see, but whether I get a direct response or not makes no difference.
Fair enough.

Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
With regard to the meaning of the original comment, I interpreted those aspects of the words that seemed to be applicable to "trojan horse romances". I understand what is meant by SJW in a wider context, but here, I think we know what is meant, if we're being honest.
If we are being honest we know you are making assumptions here about OP. I don't think they are fair comments to make. However I understand what you said you said in jest.

Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
As for the "ugly women" situation, who are you claiming is the objective arbiter of what is attractive - is it science or feminists?
Mass Effect: Andromeda would like a word with you. You've been a very naughty boy.
Silver is offline

Silver

Silver's Avatar
Spaceman
RPGWatch Team

#49

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 7,003
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)

Default 

December 10th, 2018, 15:13
I can think of plenty of fun and enjoyable, and hence great, romances in many games. But since it is pretty much subjective there is little point trying to "prove" to those who think there are no good romances in games that there are.

If the relationships with companions is well done in OW then that will be great. Friendships and bromances are also fun and doesn't always have to be a romance.

I like the content myself, much more so than things like crafting, so like it when it is in a game. Companions are one of the things I enjoy most in games.

The big issue with this game, like 2077, is the first person only. Although, from the sounds of it, it won't have some of the other things in 2077 that would help compensate for the FP only aspect. Will just have to keep an eye on the game and see how it goes. Overall looks fun though.
--
Character is centrality, the impossibility of being displaced or overset. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
wolfgrimdark is offline

wolfgrimdark

wolfgrimdark's Avatar
SasqWatch
Original Sin Donor

#50

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NH
Posts: 2,280
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)

Default 

December 10th, 2018, 15:18
Originally Posted by purpleblob View Post
Anomen romance in BG2 - yes, I'm serious.
How fare thee, m'lady?

But what game has done it well ?
Seriously? Witcher 3 ( though it's not really a "romance", Geralt already has set relationship), Uncharted, Darkness, and a few others.
On rpg side, modders did a lot better job than developers, with more gradual/believable relationship development…Isra, Mirai, etc.
In that case, it's better to use more subdued/less direct approach, that leaves it more open to interpretation, than Bioware way.
I think Obsidian actually did better overall than BW, for that reason. ( like in Alpha Protocol).
But worst thing is forcing your writers to put it in game for fan service: that's nearly 100% guaranteed cringe.
--
Rush in and die, dogs…I was a man before I was a king.
BoboTheMighty is offline

BoboTheMighty

BoboTheMighty's Avatar
SasqWatch

#51

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Croatia
Posts: 3,900
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)

Default 

December 10th, 2018, 15:19
Have to add while I'd sign everything what @wolfgrimdark said about videogame imaginary relationships, I disagree on first person only opinion in that post. The ingame perspective style doesn't change anything in my case, I'm confident that first person realtime sucks with mushrooms and thus if it's an issue, in my case it's a positive issue.

But anyway, I would love to know how many of romance_in_videogames haters are single. I can understand people playing TW1 and then their wife notices getting those sex cards. But if there is no stalker behind your back…
--
Toka Koka
joxer is online now

joxer

joxer's Avatar
The Smoker
RPGWatch Donor
Original Sin 1 & 2 Donor

#52

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 21,107
Mentioned: 145 Post(s)

Default 

December 10th, 2018, 16:01
If a gamers' wife can't stand sex cards in a video game he has bigger problems than everything related to gaming.
--
We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.
- George Bernard Shaw


Currently playing: Greedfall
Morrandir is offline

Morrandir

Morrandir's Avatar
SasqWatch
Original Sin 2 Donor

#53

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,261
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)

Default 

December 10th, 2018, 16:07
Originally Posted by Silver View Post
Not really. There is plenty of evidence for the harm SJWs do to a games reception. Going Full SJW can only refer to the most extreme moralizing and puritanical elements of it.
In the first place, the term "SJW" itself is far from being widely accepted - it's a term of derision that people of one political persuasion use to define people of another. To think that we all accept the notion of the harm that "SJWs" do to games is to expect the peculiarities of your own worldview to be universal, which is a mistake. In terms of evidence of such a thing, I think the best you could do would be a correlation between a too-small sample of cherry-picked cases, in which you assert there's an "SJW" influence.
Originally Posted by Silver View Post
Only cherry picking of hateful responses can lead one to assume all complaints about it must be homophobia/transphobia. It is not reasonable to assume that is the complaint of 90% of people complaining about it.
But I wasn't saying that all complaints of SJWism are driven by homophobia/transphobia. In many cases I don't think so, and in some cases I do. I'm talking about what is to be inferred from a very specific statement, but you're defending criticism of SJWism in general, which is a different argument.

Originally Posted by Silver View Post
If we are being honest we know you are making assumptions here about OP. I don't think they are fair comments to make. However I understand what you said you said in jest.
To some degree that's true. Understanding what someone means usually involves a degree of inference and interpretation - we can't read each other's minds. If you want to say that you disagree with my interpretation, that's fine. The part I'm saying is obvious bullshit, is your claim that the original comment is fair play, whereas the response was not. Someone says that romances in games are generally a Trojan horse for an SJW agenda - and I'm saying that such comments are a Trojan horse for their agenda. You can agree with one and disagree with the other, but to claim that the first is a fair move while the second is not is to be a very selective referee.
--
"Where can the horizon lie, when a nation hides its organic minds in a cellar, dark and grim? They must be very dim." David Bowie, All the Madmen (1970)
Last edited by Ripper; December 10th, 2018 at 17:52.
Ripper is offline

Ripper

Ripper's Avatar
Ngikufisela iwela

#54

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 8,615
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)

Default 

December 10th, 2018, 16:15
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Same, and even when I don't, it tends to feel a bit "cramped" for me. I know it's supposedly more realistic, but my eyes see far more of the world and what's going on around me than what's going on in first person games. It's more similar to removing the bottom of a cardboard box, holding it up in front of your face and then viewing the world through that.

I'm not sure if that made any sense, but the point is that an eye is formed like ) instead of |, which means our angle is far greater than just what's straight ahead of us. For example, I can almost always see my body, including my hands, even without holding them up in front of my face.
I agree. I don't feel motion sickness but FP feels mostly cramped these days with limited view, and in that prespective I prefer 'body aware' implementation where you are able to see you legs and remaining body in FP (in games such as AvP 2010, Farcry 2, Crysis, Dark Messiah of M&M, etc.).
SpoonFULL is offline

SpoonFULL

SpoonFULL's Avatar
SasqWatch

#55

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,175
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
+1:

Default 

December 10th, 2018, 17:18
Originally Posted by SpoonFULL View Post
I agree. I don't feel motion sickness but FP feels mostly cramped these days with limited view, and in that prespective I prefer 'body aware' implementation where you are able to see you legs and remaining body in FP (in games such as AvP 2010, Farcry 2, Crysis, Dark Messiah of M&M, etc.).
It's certainly better than the "hovering camera in a box" thing that a lot of games tend to stick with. Sadly, it looks pretty cramped from what little footage we've seen.
Maylander is offline

Maylander

SasqWatch
Original Sin Donor

#56

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bergen
Posts: 7,286
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Send a message via MSN to Maylander

Default 

December 10th, 2018, 17:25
Originally Posted by SpoonFULL View Post
…and in that prespective I prefer 'body aware' implementation where you are able to see you legs and remaining body in FP (in games such as AvP 2010, Farcry 2, Crysis, Dark Messiah of M&M, etc.).
Yeah, why don't they do that more often? It's such an obvious plus and I don't think it's much harder to do than invisible body.
Ivanwah is offline

Ivanwah

Sentinel

#57

Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 519
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)

Default 

December 10th, 2018, 17:44
While others have a problem with First person perceptive in RPGs I find it doesn't bother me that much. As I played almost every Elder Scroll and recent Fallout's that way.

As I tried to play them in Third -person but it just doesn't feel natural. Now if a game is built around that perceptive only then yeah I don't mind playing that way either.

Different perspectives just fit different games.
--
"Remember EA thinks Single-player games are dead & gamers are all basically idiots."

Check out my news Thread it's updated weekly.
Couchpotato is offline

Couchpotato

Couchpotato's Avatar
Anti-EA Supporter

#58

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 21,274
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)

Default 

December 10th, 2018, 21:39
Originally Posted by SpoonFULL View Post
I agree. I don't feel motion sickness but FP feels mostly cramped these days with limited view, and in that prespective I prefer 'body aware' implementation where you are able to see you legs and remaining body in FP (in games such as AvP 2010, Farcry 2, Crysis, Dark Messiah of M&M, etc.).
Dying Light, Mirror's Edge and ( for realism) Arma had the best First Person camera.
--
Rush in and die, dogs…I was a man before I was a king.
BoboTheMighty is offline

BoboTheMighty

BoboTheMighty's Avatar
SasqWatch

#59

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Croatia
Posts: 3,900
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)

Default 

December 10th, 2018, 22:24
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
In the first place, the term "SJW" itself is far from being widely accepted - it's a term of derision that people of one political persuasion use to define people of another. To think that we all accept the notion of the harm that "SJWs" do to games is to expect the peculiarities of your own worldview to be universal, which is a mistake. In terms of evidence of such a thing, I think the best you could do would be a correlation between a too-small sample of cherry-picked cases, in which you assert there's an "SJW" influence.
SJW stuff is in most movies, tv, comics and in some AAA and indie games produced today. I think the mainstream of people do not have a word for it but it is noticed - silently. They simply don't buy the comic, tv/movie or game which was previously perhaps popular. As they say 'go woke go broke' aka full SJW. If you look at the lack of sales for these products you will see it is a widespread phenomenon, even if these people can't identify themselves why they no longer enjoy product x, y or z. I have no problem with the creators who inject their politics into these products but the end result resembles more propaganda and is not entertaining.

Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
But I wasn't saying that all complaints of SJWism are driven by homophobia/transphobia. In many cases I don't think so, and in some cases I do. I'm talking about what is to be inferred from a very specific statement, but you're defending criticism of SJWism in general, which is a different argument.
Your inference is a matter of opinion so I'll leave it at that.

Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
Someone says that romances in games are generally a Trojan horse for an SJW agenda - and I'm saying that such comments are a Trojan horse for their agenda. You can agree with one and disagree with the other, but to claim that the first is a fair move while the second is not is to be a very selective referee.
Oh sure there is an agenda in both comments. I'm not arguing there isn't but I am saying that imo one statement has far more evidence in favour of it. You can disagree with that and that is fine.
Silver is offline

Silver

Silver's Avatar
Spaceman
RPGWatch Team

#60

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 7,003
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » The Outer Worlds - First Impressions @ PC Gamer
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 16:47.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by DragonByte Security (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright by RPGWatch