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Default Cyberpunk 2077 - Shouldn't be an Open World Game

February 14th, 2019, 17:57
Originally Posted by Morrandir View Post
How could storytelling be open if not by having branches?
(Yes, a sophisticated AI could solve the issue, but we're decades away from that.)
Doesn't need sophisticated AI, just planning that players are going to do stuff out of order when you design.

For example, if you go to Skellige before you are done with Valen main quests and interact with certain NPCs on Skellige the game main story can break. There are side quests that breaks if you don't do things exactly in the order things were planned too. I had two where that happened.
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February 14th, 2019, 18:20
Originally Posted by azarhal View Post
Doesn't need sophisticated AI, just planning that players are going to do stuff out of order when you design.
I think, though, that all that branching and interaction would explode exponentially, to the point where it wouldn't be feasible to map it all out in a predetermined way.
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February 14th, 2019, 18:50
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
I think, though, that all that branching and interaction would explode exponentially, to the point where it wouldn't be feasible to map it all out in a predetermined way.
You don't need to add more branching or interactions outside basic "if checks" and filler "I have nothing to tell you right now" that probably already exist for post story completion anyway.

Open world games have to support that players might be anywhere on the map at any time. If the story is linear, it shouldn't behave has if the players finished part A just because they are now in area where part B is happening. It's basic open world 101 design.
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February 14th, 2019, 19:04
I don't agree that open worlds have to allow for the player to be anywhere on the map at any time. If we look at BotW, which I think is a very elegant piece of game design, it gates content by using the elements as a sort of rock, paper, scissors system. So, you can't get to certain content because the area is too cold, or charged with electricity, and you don't yet have the appropriate resistances. If you look at the "narrative" as discovering all the information in all parts of the world, there are only actually a limited number of routes for doing it.

But I think we might be talking somewhat at cross-purposes. I'm looking at the idea that Morrandir was discussing - of having a truly open narrative, where the actors in the game respond and change according to what you do. I'm just saying that I think it would be infeasible to create that by mapping a branching system to cover all possibilities. I think we would need something like advanced AI to achieve that, and until then choice and consequence will be largely smoke and mirrors.
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February 14th, 2019, 21:25
Originally Posted by duerer View Post
FYI, Zelda's story is structured in a very different manner than e.g. Witcher 3.
Instead of telling a story in a linear three-act way, Zelda presents a vague lore and an initial mystery at the beginning.

The story is entirely optional and non-linear.
There's nothing particularly unique about that. For example, the Souls games do that as well.
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February 14th, 2019, 21:44
Originally Posted by azarhal View Post
Doesn't need sophisticated AI, just planning that players are going to do stuff out of order when you design.

For example, if you go to Skellige before you are done with Valen main quests and interact with certain NPCs on Skellige the game main story can break. There are side quests that breaks if you don't do things exactly in the order things were planned too. I had two where that happened.
Fair enough, but that are "only" bugs and have nothing to do with the narrative design.
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February 15th, 2019, 13:46
Originally Posted by azarhal View Post

Open world games have to support that players might be anywhere on the map at any time.
Moving through space is sequential. Exploration is sequential.

Moving from A to C means moving through B.

Players might hate so much on exploration they wished fast travel to be an available option from the start in Skyrim, devs still had bones enough to conserve that property to anchor their open world .
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February 15th, 2019, 13:51
Originally Posted by duerer View Post
Well, Zelda BoW solved this one rather elegantly.
So no need for a sophisticated AI for that.
They solved nothing. BotW is gameplay oriented, story acts as an enhancer. It is nothing central.
Narration is linear in BotW.
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February 15th, 2019, 13:54
Okay, as someone who has never heard about BoW nor BotW, whatever those might be…
Who to trust now. @duerer or @ChienAboyeur ?
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February 15th, 2019, 14:02
Actually, there is a thread dedicated to it on this site. Could be an idea to see who posted there or elsewhere to claim that this gameplay jewel exclusive to console gaming could be ported in no time to the PC master race world etc
And who answered wait and not see.
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February 15th, 2019, 14:18
Console gaming? You sure it's not yet another overrated rubbish from handheld (Nintendo Gameboy)?
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