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June 23rd, 2018, 23:56
Uh huh, that's why you have no credibility. If you're going to trash the game for being too easy then you had better of played on a higher difficulty than normal w/o level scaling.

Anyways, Patch 1.1 made the game signifigantly harder. It added more enemies to every mob on veteran and PotD, and nerfed most of the OP builds and equipment.
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June 24th, 2018, 15:32
Originally Posted by Drithius View Post
Well, to be fair, it's an isometric RPG, with complex systems that scare off casual players. Whereas D:OS 2 was everyone's sweetheart for a good month when it released, its systems are vastly more simplistic and easier to pick up.

Face it, if Baldur's Gate were released today, it would probably have the same [lack of] success. Sitting down for a 60-100 hour campaign and building up an entire party of characters with stats/feats/multiclassing is never going to appeal to more than a niche audience in such a fast-paced, short attention span marketplace.
Especially after the gaming community has so much been trained to rather play (and have success with !) Action-RPG games. With next to no micromanagement.
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June 24th, 2018, 17:21
Regardless of how I played the game, it's crystal clear even to a no credibility guy like myself that the whole thing is fundamentally broken when a game has one difficulty in a league by itself, for the so-called "hardcore" players, and 3 different story modes, for people that used to enjoy Obsidian games for things beside the combat, like maybe the story and writing. You know, the thing they were famous for.
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June 24th, 2018, 18:16
I don't understand how having different settings for players of different skill levels means the game is fundamentally broken.
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June 25th, 2018, 01:48
I think he is trying to say what's the point of having different difficulties if 3 of them are so easy there might as well be called same thing (I.e. Story mode).

In my opinion default difficulty should be what the developers recommend to average players. If default difficulty in PoE2 might as well be considered story mode, then clearly Obsidian is targeting at mainstream folks, so I don't see how that will scare away people.
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June 25th, 2018, 03:59
Well @purpleblob there has to reason why POE II is not selling as well as other similar games that cant be denied. I'll add that it probably doesn't appeal to certain groups because of no MP. Anyway read Drithius post for more reasons.
Originally Posted by Drithius View Post
Well, to be fair, it's an isometric RPG, with complex systems that scare off casual players. Whereas D:OS 2 was everyone's sweetheart for a good month when it released, its systems are vastly more simplistic and easier to pick up.

Face it, if Baldur's Gate were released today, it would probably have the same [lack of] success. Sitting down for a 60-100 hour campaign and building up an entire party of characters with stats/feats/multiclassing is never going to appeal to more than a niche audience in such a fast-paced, short attention span marketplace.
So you see it's not difficulty that's the problem.
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June 25th, 2018, 05:25
Originally Posted by purpleblob View Post
I think he is trying to say what's the point of having different difficulties if 3 of them are so easy there might as well be called same thing (I.e. Story mode).
Easy for him, a veteran of the infinity engine games. It's all subjective.

That's clearly not what he said either. He said the game lacks depth because it's too easy, which isn't credible unless he played on PotD with upscale.

In my opinion default difficulty should be what the developers recommend to average players.
I'd say that's how it is currently. New players would struggle on normal, veteran is for players with experience, and PotD is for hardcore players.
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June 25th, 2018, 06:53
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Well @purpleblob there has to reason why POE II is not selling as well as other similar games that cant be denied. I'll add that it probably doesn't appeal to certain groups because of no MP. Anyway read Drithius post for more reasons.
So you see it's not difficulty that's the problem.
Other similar games that sold well such as?

Originally Posted by Silver Coin View Post
That's clearly not what he said either. He said the game lacks depth because it's too easy, which isn't credible unless he played on PotD with upscale.
Not sure what you mean - if the game is only challenging in PotD, how does that prove the game has depth?
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June 25th, 2018, 06:59
Originally Posted by purpleblob View Post
Other similar games that sold well such as?
  1. Baldur's Gate Enhanced
  2. Baldur's Gate Enhanced 2
  3. Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition
  4. Divinity: Original Sin
  5. Divinity: Original Sin 2
  6. Pillars of Eternity
  7. Wasteland 2
  8. Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  9. Shadowrun: Dragonfall - Director's Cut
  10. Tyranny
Some examples for you as the rest sold less like the new Torment: Tides of Numenera flop. Frankly no one is making it up that POE II did not sell as much as the first game.

Also read some of the POE II new-bits for more info.

*I like this game so this is not personal just look at the sale #'s and # of players on Steam.

Pillars of Eternity

Owners: 1,000,000 - 2,000,000
Players: 1,270,320


Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire

Owners: 100,000 -200,000
Players: 196,437
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Last edited by Couchpotato; June 25th, 2018 at 07:17.
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June 25th, 2018, 07:47
Originally Posted by purpleblob View Post
Not sure what you mean - if the game is only challenging in PotD, how does that prove the game has depth?

Again, only if we go by his own subjective experience (although he wouldn't actually know since he never played on veteran or PotD). There are people that think story mode is too hard, and their experience is just as valid.

This debate is idiotic though, so I'm done. Depth ≠ difficulty, and criticizing normal mode for being too easy when there are two harder settings AND level scaling is plain dumb.
Last edited by Copper Coin; June 25th, 2018 at 07:54. Reason: fg
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June 25th, 2018, 08:05
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
  1. Baldur's Gate Enhanced
  2. Baldur's Gate Enhanced 2
  3. Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition
  4. Divinity: Original Sin
  5. Divinity: Original Sin 2
  6. Pillars of Eternity
  7. Wasteland 2
  8. Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  9. Shadowrun: Dragonfall - Director's Cut
  10. Tyranny
Thanks for the list, Couch

I haven't played PoE2 but it's a bit difficult to believe complexity of the system alone would have driven gamers away from it (unless you guys claim its a lot more complex than BG/NWN?).

I plan to play PoE2 at some point, but I stayed away from it since PoE1 was so uninspiring and boring (for me).

Still waiting on Maylander's review. Or any of Watcher review. Wouldn't mind hearing several people's point of view
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Last edited by purpleblob; June 25th, 2018 at 08:52. Reason: grammar
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June 25th, 2018, 08:09
I deliberately played on Normal, with No scaling. That mode should be the showcase for the whole game, as the developers envisioned it, among other cosiderations.

I found it lacking. Any supposed depth should be clear on any difficulty mode, as each mode should be presenting encounters to showcase the game systems, not hide them behind expert options and difficulty. Or breezing mindlessly past most encounters.

And yes, if everything is "fixed" with level scaling and extra mob perks, then it is broken from the get go. And just plain lazy as hell.

I also do like different difficulty levels. On games that make it worth my while. Deadfire, with it's encounters that are 99% generic in two room one level dungeons, just doesn't seem like one.

Which is too bad, given their sales and the majority of comments, they should have made PotD the default and all the money that went into appealing to the casuals (VO, ship everything, the "open-world-ness" among the chief offenders) would have been better spent elsewhere. Might have even improved the numbers.
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June 25th, 2018, 08:31
Spoiler


You're a veteran player. They had a veteran mode designed specifically for veteran players. It was envisioned so that veteran players such as yourself would have a difficulty mode to be happy with.

It's your fault that you, a veteran player, decided to play on a difficulty lower than veteran. The developers shouldn't be blamed for your bad decisions.

And yes, if everything is "fixed" with level scaling and extra mob perks, then it is broken from the get go. And just plain lazy as hell.
They busted their ass to overhaul every single encounter in the game, and you call them lazy for doing so? You just sound like a hater at this point.

For the record, they didn't just balance the game through level scaling and boosting enemy stats. They added new enemies to every mob, nerfed OP classes and abilities, added new hazards to many fights, ect. It was the most comprehensive balancing patch I've ever seen, and they are still improving it and adding new challenge modes.
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June 26th, 2018, 01:11
As someone who doesn't focus on combat in games I adored POE2 (and POE1). Great story, loved the companions, the graphics were top notch for this style of game, lots and lots of fine details, depth, and special touches. Only focusing on combat is a big mistake IMO. There is so much more to this game, and POE1 for that matter.

Most of my friends do not play these style of games - they like games like DAI, ME, Assasins Creed, Tomb Raider, and a few Skyrim and FO style. But 4 of them got interested over my images and posts on Nexus, Flickr, and FB. All 4 now own both games and really enjoy them. Was a surprise to all of us. Once you get into the lore and see all the fine detail that went into these games they are damn enjoyable IMO.
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June 26th, 2018, 16:22
Originally Posted by purpleblob View Post
Still waiting on Maylander's review. Or any of Watcher review. Wouldn't mind hearing several people's point of view
Renovations still taking its toll here, but I should be able to make good progress soon! I hope..
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