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Default Has there been a decline in quality of TES games since Morrowind or is it nostalgia?

March 6th, 2020, 02:17
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March 6th, 2020, 09:08
Originally Posted by lackblogger View Post
Well… what is your view on whether his statement was even close to being a valid statement?
My view on his statement is that I don't quite agree MW is the only "old" game playable today. I do agree it's a fun game though. And I assumed the statement was valid to him if not to me? Note that I'm not questioning your decision to question the statement though, I could have done the same thing.
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March 6th, 2020, 09:13
Originally Posted by TomRon View Post
My view on his statement is that I don't quite agree MW is the only "old" game playable today. I do agree it's a fun game though. And I assumed the statement was valid to him if not to me? Note that I'm not questioning your decision to question the statement though, I could have done the same thing.
Exactly, hence why I stopped 'arguing'/'debating'/'replying'/whatever when he clarified his statement.

This wonderful off-topic analysis of how I personally communicate with people is great and all, but you do realise it is, yet again, cRPGnut just stirring the pot in an uber-trollface way don't you…?

You do see that… yes?
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March 6th, 2020, 09:29
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Well someone had to pick up the slack in DArt's absence, and I think she's doing a wonderful job.
I find Lackbloggers argumentation more interesting (or I just agree more) but they do have a common fondness for being thorough. I actually find that refreshing in a world overtaken with Twitter accounts being the main source of communication, and to me it makes this forum better.
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March 6th, 2020, 09:36
Originally Posted by lackblogger View Post
Exactly, hence why I stopped 'arguing'/'debating'/'replying'/whatever when he clarified his statement.

This wonderful off-topic analysis of how I personally communicate with people is great and all, but you do realise it is, yet again, cRPGnut just stirring the pot in an uber-trollface way don't you…?

You do see that… yes?
You're right about the off topic thing and I obviously don't mean any disrespect. I would however not call Nuts post trolling (to me it sounded pretty light hearted) but you guys apparently have some history I'm not aware of.
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March 6th, 2020, 10:03
Originally Posted by TomRon View Post
I would however not call Nuts post trolling (to me it sounded pretty light hearted)
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ maybe? Perhaps he could clarify…?
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March 6th, 2020, 12:26
Morrowind > Skyrim > Oblivion.

Morrowind was my first TES game and the first open world 3d game I played so I was naturally awe struck by it. I was really transported into a new world. I felt like I was really living in it. I explored al lthe nooks and crannies. I even knew the weather pattern by heart and can tell you when it will rain in Balmora! So the immersion was 100%.

I also have some really good memories of my little brother due to Morrowind. At that time we only had one PC at home so me and my brother had to share it. Sometimes we will play together and other times we will fight each other for PC time! But both of us were wonder stuck by the amazing looking game. We both will get excited to explore new caves and get our arses handed to us etc. We were thrilled when we first found Umber on that mountain top wielding his 2h sword and he kicked our arses! We both will take turns to fight him and my little brother finally beat him and I was so proud of him for it since he manged to do something me, the big brother, failed to do!

It still melt our hearts to hear Jermey Sueol Morrowind theme…. <goes off and listen to it again>

So yes, Morrowind is the best TES game ever.
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March 6th, 2020, 12:45
@lostforever People's first TES experience usually tends to be their favorite and that is certainly the case with me.
I was doing the Thieves Guild quest line in Oblivion a few months ago and my little sister sat by me and watched me play for some time. Now sometimes she randomly lowers her voice, bows her head a bit and whispers "Shadow hide you".
Jeremy Soule is a legend and Nerevar Rising is the best main theme in TES, I agree.
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March 6th, 2020, 12:52
Originally Posted by Tihskael View Post
Now sometimes she randomly lowers her voice, bows her head a bit and whispers "Shadow hide you".
Thats so cute!

Originally Posted by Tihskael View Post
Jeremy Soule is a legend and Nerevar Rising is the best main theme in TES, I agree.
I just listened to it again while replying to you and it still gives me goosebumps But unfortunately I don't think Jeremy Soule will work on another TES game again

On a broader point, I still think Morrwind is the best game "objectively". Its very hard to compare game made at different time periods but say if all 3 games were done at the same time using the same engine, most people will pick Morrwind over the others. Its just my biased opinion
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March 6th, 2020, 13:09
Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
On a broader point, I still think Morrwind is the best game "objectively". It's just my biased opinion
Nah, let's just call it a fact instead. It's impossible to prove it isn't true?
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March 6th, 2020, 17:36
Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
Morrowind > Skyrim > Oblivion.

Morrowind was my first TES game and the first open world 3d game I played so I was naturally awe struck by it. I was really transported into a new world. I felt like I was really living in it. I explored al lthe nooks and crannies. I even knew the weather pattern by heart and can tell you when it will rain in Balmora! So the immersion was 100%.

I also have some really good memories of my little brother due to Morrowind. At that time we only had one PC at home so me and my brother had to share it. Sometimes we will play together and other times we will fight each other for PC time! But both of us were wonder stuck by the amazing looking game. We both will get excited to explore new caves and get our arses handed to us etc. We were thrilled when we first found Umber on that mountain top wielding his 2h sword and he kicked our arses! We both will take turns to fight him and my little brother finally beat him and I was so proud of him for it since he manged to do something me, the big brother, failed to do!

It still melt our hearts to hear Jermey Sueol Morrowind theme…. <goes off and listen to it again>

So yes, Morrowind is the best TES game ever.
Beautiful words my friend, just beautiful!

I've played all TES games in order and MW is still the best, but I do love Oblivion and Skyrim, and also understand why people see MW as unplayable now. You have to have that real love from playing it back in the day to put up with some of the negatives.

My view is that the latter 3 TES games are all superb, MW clearly the best, but they are all individually fantastic experiences and I cannot wait until 6
So I don't believe there has been a decline in quality, they've simply produced superb but different games as an experience set in the same world.
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March 6th, 2020, 20:22
Since I like Skyrim more than Morrowind I guess I’d say no, Qualities not declining.

I couldn’t get past morrowinds combat system. Fighting in RT with actual hit boxes but having A hit chance calculation caused a disconnect for me. Clearly hitting the enemy but it being a miss just irritated me.
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March 6th, 2020, 20:27
Nostalgia for the most part.

I have played Battlespire, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion (but didn't finish), and Skyrim.

Morrowind is better for me in regards to unique atmosphere and that I preferred the deeper character building in Morrowind where in Skyrim its mana, health, or stamina and some perks.

Oblivion bored me and couldn't ever finish. Think it was the scaling and it was before I used mods. If I had done mods back then probably would have finished.

Skyrim is my favorite out of all the games released for TES. Perhaps tied with Morrowind in the sense that each has pros and cons.

Of all the FO games I also prefer FO4 the most. I loved FNV, never finished FO3, and FO1 and FO2 I barely remember although I played both a couple times.
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March 6th, 2020, 21:53
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
I couldn’t get past morrowinds combat system. Fighting in RT with actual hit boxes but having A hit chance calculation caused a disconnect for me. Clearly hitting the enemy but it being a miss just irritated me.
But… that was one of the best parts! If you didn't have the skill you couldn't hit anything. I understand why they changed it, but I never saw it as a problem in an RPG that character skill trumped player skill. Adjusting damage based on skill works too though.
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March 13th, 2020, 18:55
I've played all the main Elder Scrolls games starting with Arena. Each game is always bitter sweet… though the margin is close, more sweet than bitter. Each game has some kind of hook to it that keeps me playing, while annoying the hell out of me non stop.

Arena came two years after Ultima Underworld. The gaming mags of the day had screen shots showcasing a 3D World and 3D dungeons similar to UW. So that was the initial hook. Arena was kind of a bland game but the dungeons kept me playing. Those were the days I loved being lost in dungeons.

Daggerfall was a bug ridden disaster but had a massive world and all kinds of great mechanics and character development. The UI constantly pissed me off but unlike many people, I really liked how complicated the dungeons were and how difficult they were. I also loved climbing structures and stealing. Was great fun.

Morrowind's hook was the spectacular graphics and Bethesda's noticeable improvement in execution of their game. The generic NPC dialog was the thorn in my side on that - just utterly a bore to talk with NPCs for the most part. Still, the factions, character development, and exploration were really fun.

Oblivion took graphics to yet a new level. Quests and overall simulation were wonderful in Oblivion. The UI and level scaling were the bitter part of that game. Of course these days, you can undo all of that with mods and it's great. Oblivion also had weird character progression that didn't feel like progression. Again, these days you can mod that right out. Out of all the main TES games, I replay Oblivion the most. I'm playing it right now in fact.

Skyrim like Morrowind and Oblivion was another big step up in visuals. I really loved a lot of the Skyrim gameplay but really disliked the main quest and fighting dragons all the time. I put over 1000 hours into Skyrim, but I have yet to replay it. I really hated the Skyrim UI but thankfully it did not take too long for SkyUI to come along.

Here's my short list of things that'd be nice for future TES games:

-Make a UI that is commensurate with the complexity of the game and make a separate UI for devices that use keyboard/mouse.

-Dungeons ought to be varied in look and feel as well as the kinds of creatures that occupy them. I'm a fan of fewer, but larger dungeons that have personality and are memorable. Dungeons are a world space and ought to have character. Why is that treasure chest there? Why do certain creatures occupy the dungeon. How is this world space serving the living things in the world. Skyrim and Oblivion dungeons were the ultimate "monster closets" - which is no compliment. I remember when I entered the Dungeon Destard in Ultima 7 for the first time back in the early 1990s. Today, after putting in 1000 hours in Skyrim and close to that in Oblivion no single dungeon really stands out as memorable. Perhaps Black Reach in Skyrim, but even that place was fairly uninteresting other than the hype built up about it in the game.

-This point isn't limited to TES games but is really a problem with most RPGs these days. A return to exciting gear finds is sorely lacking. Gear in games these days are piles of uninteresting junk. I miss the days where you find a ring and it truly benefits you. Or you find a better sword and it's really great. Gear in RPGs has become so drab and boring, players constantly throwing garbage on their ever growing pile of garbage. More is not better, more is actually boring. I want to be excited again when I find gear!
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March 14th, 2020, 03:54
On the subject of gear, I liked the idea in the Two Worlds games. You'd find common gear and then as you found more and more of the same types they could be combined into stronger and stronger copies. This made finding the same old, same old still okay because you knew that you could combine it into something greater.

On the supposed decline…modders have been the inspiration behind so many, many hours of amazing game play in Skyrim that I hope to never lose that in future games. Skyrim is awesome, but modded Skyrim is the best game I've ever touched.

Fallout 4 has better companions though and that's my hope for TES VI. Give me fantasy, modding, better companions and a much more powerful engine powering the next generation of the best game ever made. Make that engine as friendly or even better than gamebryo.

I wonder if Bethesda isn't scared shitless of even attempting to do it. I think that might be the biggest reason it has been almost a decade since Skyrim. Bethesda has lost a lot of cred with the aging gamebryo and I'm not sure anybody has an engine that can meet the loft expectations of the next TES.

Fallout 76 didn't help anything and the fact that Starfield is generating almost no buzz makes it look like another bad or mediocre idea. Bethesda Game Studios hasn't had a success in a long time now. Don't forget these other games weren't made in-house.
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March 14th, 2020, 05:29
Originally Posted by TheMadGamer View Post

-This point isn't limited to TES games but is really a problem with most RPGs these days. A return to exciting gear finds is sorely lacking. Gear in games these days are piles of uninteresting junk. I miss the days where you find a ring and it truly benefits you. Or you find a better sword and it's really great. Gear in RPGs has become so drab and boring, players constantly throwing garbage on their ever growing pile of garbage. More is not better, more is actually boring. I want to be excited again when I find gear!
I though Dark souls excelled in this area. Hand placed loot. Move sets made the game feel different with all weapons and Havel’s ring was an absolute game changer IN DS1.
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March 15th, 2020, 17:30
I haven't heard a single thing about Starfield except brief mentions that it… exists in some form… here.

Not optimistic on that one.

Morrowind was far and away Bethesda's most interesting setting. None of their other games were even close. But that game is so clunky and creaky by now that I just can't do it anymore.

Skyrim. Eh. Skyrim had many great points. But the haggard, Viking/Norse stuff is just so tiresome to me that it's all just cliché. That setting and environment has been ground into the dirt. I never want to see another muscle man wearing a horned helmet in a snowy landscape ever again.
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March 15th, 2020, 19:05
Originally Posted by FizzyShellfish View Post
Skyrim. Eh. Skyrim had many great points. But the haggard, Viking/Norse stuff is just so tiresome to me that it's all just cliché. That setting and environment has been ground into the dirt. I never want to see another muscle man wearing a horned helmet in a snowy landscape ever again.
THE most overdone setting in gaming, imo. I didn't care for it much to begin with, but oh boy is it apparent that I'm in the minority. I play AC games, and the ongoing rumor that the next one will be a fucking Viking game… you could probably have heard my sighs of exasperation all the way over in Montreal.
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March 15th, 2020, 20:40
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
I though Dark souls excelled in this area. Hand placed loot. Move sets made the game feel different with all weapons and Havel’s ring was an absolute game changer IN DS1.
I really love the Souls games and I've played all of them to completion (except sekiro because I don't care much for the Samurai theme or the arcadish nature of the game). I agree that items are interesting in those games.

Souls games however are different from open world games like Skyrim, Witcher 3, Gothic games, and even Ultima and Might & Magic games, which are the kinds of games I had in mind when I made my comment. Souls games are open I guess, just in a different way that I think needs an entirely new thread to fully flesh out.

In Gothic 1 and 2 when I found better armor or a better weapon, it was exciting and game changing. Suddenly I could re-visit an area previously too difficult or at least penetrate further into the area. In Skyrim and Witcher 3 I just lobbed most everything in the sell it later pile or equipped something incrementally better, but just marginally better, almost unnoticeably better. I don't mind incrementally better gear, but the fun in exploring is to at least occasionally stumble on to a find that helps put you ahead of the difficulty curve for the level your're at (for a time)… that is when exploring and gear becomes fun. Make gear fun again!

Probably the most fun games I've ever played when it came to exciting gear and exciting character development in general were M&M 6 through 8. Just about every moment in those games you are improving something useful. It's one of those games where your wife is screaming from the other room to get some random chore done and you keep screaming back, I'll be right there, just gotta do this one last thing…
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