PoE, D:OS, and WL2: Comparison/Contrast

Fenris said:

Gamey Stats, no Combat XP, Sawyers Vision of Balance and my Vision of Fun are to different.

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I actually like the concept of no combat XP in a RPG, as I don't generally play these types of games for the combat. I think it emphasizes questing and solving problems in different ways. That said, there is an awful lot of unavoidable combat for a game that doesn't reward you for winning fights.

All that said, PoE does give you limited XP for the first few times you defeat a particular type of creature, so it's not exactly no combat XP either.

I have completed all three and have to say enjoyed all of them alot although all three have a weakpoint or two imo.

PoE starts very strong ito world lore and very strong writing, probably the best of the three. The no battle XP thing is a bit of a non event as I maxed out my level by the end of act 2, so according to me the level cap is maybe a bit low although I tend to complete most content in RPG's. The combat is a little weak, but I prefer TB so I might be a bit biased, although I sort of got used to it halfway through the game and tolerated it quite comfortably, so for me its not that big of a drawback. The weakest point for me was the final act of the game which seemed kind of rushed and which I enjoyed the least after discovering this beautiful new world. I found the end to be a bit of an anticlimax, but are looking foreward to more games in this universe. So poor combat and slightly anticlimatic plot, but excellent writing and fresh new world and lore.

DOS probably has the second best writing although for me the plot also got slightly confusing and tapered off towards the end. I thought the amount of content that DOS had was one of its strong points and none of it felt like filler either. The strongest point is definitely the combat which I think most people have already mentioned. So good combat, but slightly confusing plot with lots of content.

WL2 is probably the weakest of the three for most people but for me its on par with POE. I played it quite early after release so I had the california bugs plaque me at the end which I think is sorted now. For me the strongest plus for WL2 was the setting. Fantasy settings are fine but they are 80% of RPG settings so playing in a "real" world was nice and the post apocalyptic settings is also one of my favourites. The combat was adequate but it could probably have been done a bit better, maybe not on the level of jagged alliance, but maybe a bit more tactical like jagged alliance. Anyhow that was not the weakest part of WL2. The weakest part for me was the plot which I felt never really went anywhere in the end, but maybe thats because of the california bugs. The writing was nonetheless still good and I enjoyed the weird characters and organisations you met throughout the game. So decent combat, good writing, but poor plot excecution.

I just feel privileged to have had the opportunity to play three great RPG's in less than a 12 month period, dont think that has ever happened to me before, but hopefully it will again.

Donkerman said:

I just feel privileged to have had the opportunity to play three great RPG's in less than a 12 month period, dont think that has ever happened to me before, but hopefully it will again.

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Just them three?
There were a few more great RPGs released in that period and one upcoming (next month) is also expected to be great.

In fact, after disappointing BoundByFlame (still good though just... not very good) I can't remember any RPG released in past 12 months (phonegames aside) that wasn't great except can't be sure about Neptunia because of horrible controls that made it unplayable on my side.

I've still got a long way to go in PoE but one thing that's really frustrating me is the pure isometric view. You can't turn the camera AT ALL. If you get stuck in a battle behind a tree - ouch. D:OS lets you turn it a little (or even a lot if you select the option) which made all the difference.

Donkerman, did you try Shadowrun: Dragonfall? There's a different setting for you. Elves with sniper rifles and orcs with submachine guns!

Zloth said:

I've still got a long way to go in PoE but one thing that's really frustrating me is the pure isometric view. You can't turn the camera AT ALL. If you get stuck in a battle behind a tree - ouch. D:OS lets you turn it a little (or even a lot if you select the option) which made all the difference.

Donkerman, did you try Shadowrun: Dragonfall? There's a different setting for you. Elves with sniper rifles and orcs with submachine guns!

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Yes I have, but haven't quite gotten into it. Do agree about the fixed camera in POE, real pain in the backside. Even tranparent tree setting would help.

Tough call. I completed both D: OS and PoE twice and I think they're both excellent. However, I think PoE is marginally ahead for me. It certainly has the most potential - polish the combat a bit, make certain stats and abilities more varied/interesting, and it could be something I'd compare to BG2. It falls short as it is though.

I think all three games are good, but of the three, the only one I didn't have to force myself to finish it and kept me hooked from beginning to end was D:OS. Wasteland 2 became redundant and dull the deeper I got into the game, and PoE's combat became just too easy to a point that choices and tactics didn't matter in the end as you could autoattack things to death (including the Sky Dragon, and I'm talking about PotD difficulty).

So my vote has to go to Divinity: Original Sin. Again, all three games are good and worth playing, but that's just my preference.

I played Pillars of Eternity for the entire day, skipped all the chores I should have been doing, and am up much later than I ought to be. It's definitely hitting it's stride for me. According to Steam, today I passed both W2 and D:OS for hours played in Pillars of Eternity. I will still reserve final judgment until I have played through them all, but I must admit that I think Pillars of Eternity has captivated me the most so far. I'm very intrigued by the plot and the pacing. My party is all decked out with some enchanted items, I've been through 12 of the 15 levels of the mega dungeon (just forged the Blade of Endless Paths), my keep is almost entirely rebuilt, and I am having a lot of fun! One thing that has me a little bummed is that I am almost at the level cap already. I can understand why it's in there with the expansion and sequel in the works, but I am hoping a mod can take it out nonetheless. I really like the way the game looks and plays, though I occasionally get frustrated running into so many traps in the dungeon and looking for hidden switches. I think that's natural after slogging through 12 dungeon levels.

rossrjensen said:

One thing that has me a little bummed is that I am almost at the level cap already. I can understand why it's in there with the expansion and sequel in the works, but I am hoping a mod can take it out nonetheless.

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That wouldn't do much, since there are no spells for higher levels I believe. With the current version of "IE mod" you can adjust the XP tables, however, so that leveling will be slowed down some and you don't reach the max so early. Won't help you with your current game, though.

Arhu said:

That wouldn't do much, since there are no spells for higher levels I believe. With the current version of "IE mod" you can adjust the XP tables, however, so that leveling will be slowed down some and you don't reach the max so early. Won't help you with your current game, though.

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I haven't played the game yet, so I'm refraining from the subjectivities of the game for the moment, but I am seeing this XP cap being mentioned by an awful lot of people. Now, there's not that many things in a computer game that are relateable to rocket science, but if there's one thing that wouldn't be rocket science, it would be having a single page basic addition spreadsheet which simply counts up all the XP available in the game. I feel sure someone had that job, especially with the team being so obsessed about the concept of XP in this game. "Does not compute" seems to be my initial reaction.

lackblogger said:

if there's one thing that wouldn't be rocket science, it would be having a single page basic addition spreadsheet which simply counts up all the XP available in the game. I feel sure someone had that job, especially with the team being so obsessed about the concept of XP in this game. "Does not compute" seems to be my initial reaction.

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True enough. From what I read (hearsay) combat didn't give any XP originally, back in beta, which was eventually changed to what we have now with combat giving XP for the first fights against particular enemy types. Maybe they simply forgot about that and didn't adjust the leveling curve accordingly? On top of that you get a good amount of XP for disarming traps and other optional content like bounties and the endless paths...

Anyway, I don't want to believe it was intended to be this way and hope they'll do something about it in a patch.

Yeah, I think an awful lot of my XP has come from doing optional content, so I am not terribly surprised from that perspective. I just want to be able to keep getting more powerful, balance be damned!

First of all I'd just like to take a second to say WOW, I just spent a good 20-30 minutes typing up a response on my iPad, and it died on me before I could hit the post button. Now my post will not feel original to me as I type it because I will just be re-hashing all my previous laid out thoughts and it will never turn out as good as it was the first time around. Interestingly, there is a tinge of irony to that last statement as I think sometimes these isometric cRPG's that we all love so much suffer from a similar issue. But enough rambling, time for the purpose of this post!

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With Original Sin 2 recently released to wide critical acclaim, Pillars of Eternity 2 just around the corner, and Wasteland 3 on the horizon, I feel like it is time to cast necrothread to bring this post back to life to reflect on Round 1 of the cRPG renaissance and preview Round 2.

Unfortunately, I don't have a ton new to add to Round 1, as I never ended up going back to finish Wasteland 2 or Original Sin, despite a Director's Cut and Enhanced Edition, each of which also saw some limited playing time. I still intend to do this some day, when I have the time and energy and am not being bombarded by other interests. I did, however, end up finishing Pillars of Eternity and gobbled up as much of the side content as possible in about 85 hours with the vanilla release. Though I put in a few more hours with the expansion, I also never finished it. Overall, I loved Pillars and think it has received its share of flak from time to time due to some unfair comparisons people's fond memories of Baldur's Gate 2. Ultimately, I personally believe Pillars stands tall (see what I did there?) as the proud winner of Round 1 of the isometric cRPG renaissance.

Round 1
Pillars of Eternity>Original Sin>Wasteland 2

While it's obviously really early into Round 2, we've started with an absolute whopper! I've put about 85 hours into Original Sin 2 and I have to say with a high degree of certainty that it puts all the games from Round 1 to shame. In fact, taking out my personal sentiments, this game is quite possibly the perfect RPG for a fella like me: Interesting characters, fabulous storytelling, incredible writing/voicework, brilliant quests, and of course the best tactical turn-based combat in RPG history! I absolutely adore this game!

Now that I'm done gushing about Original Sin 2, does anyone out there think a Round 2 heavyweight can top it? I think it's going to be quite the challenge, but if I had to pick one with a chance, I'd go with Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire. Obviously I liked POE a lot, my Round 1 champ. Now that they have the engine in place, this time around they have been able to dedicate all of their time to the game itself. Obsidian also always manages to craft games that intrigue me. I'm also a sucker for the ability to continue my adventures by importing my previous hero/adventurer. Baldurs Gate II anyone?? If any game has the chance to live up to those lofty standards, it has to be this one.

Or did Original Sin 2 already surpass those standards?

Wasteland 3 will definitely have its work cut out for it. InXile still needs to land with that smash indie RPG hit in my opinion. I really have liked what I've seen from early videos, though. I definitely have a soft spot for post-apocalyptic settings, so it will have that advantage baked in from the get go.

What do you guys think about how Round 1 turned out? How do you think Round 2 will end up?

For round 1 I'm the minority but I prefer wasteland 2 over the long haul. While I loved playing D:OS the truth is that the story is at best poor and after a couple of plays the mechanics have obvious do's and don't. The last time I played I only struggled in one fight and that was near the end of act 1. The rest of the game (including last fight) was a yawn combat wise.
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For pillars I liked neither the combat nor the story. The white-march i enjoyed but story-wise it didn't really grab me. It was just a fun romp. I guess the story moment was there.
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For wasteland 2 the combat is simpler than D:OS but i wasn't horrible. The thing is that each time I played it there were bits of the story that I discovered hidden. Even with the director cut the last bit is still fuzzy wuzzy and the end battle is a bit corny but it carries my interest over the long haul unlike D:OS.
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I just cant find much in POE to recommend .The builds are a bit non-intuitive and confusing. The world doesn't seem to hold that many treasures (hidden things to discover) and it isn't really that fun to play (combat).
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Round 3 is too early to judge since only 1 game is out. The story and story bits is much better in D:OS-2 but the last 1/2 of the game could use a lot of improvements. It remains to be seen how much will change with the patches. Most of the current patches are fixing problems in the first 1/2 so i suspect we will see some substantial changes in the later game - even if they don't call it EE.

Thank *you* for sharing your thoughts. I'm glad you enjoyed Wasteland 2 so much. I really, really want to love it. I played about 50 hours in the original version before moving on. I tried out the Director's Cut and was actually enjoying that playthrough quite a bit more (probably only about 6 hours). I definitely want to give it more time.

I didn't mention Torment in the original post because it came out quite a bit after these three, but it also fits the mold. I can't really share many thoughts as I have only barely dipped my toes in it. I have sort of put it on the back-burner for the time being. There's just so many games out there to experience and free time has become a valuable commodity for me these days! I played through the original Planescape but got around to it well after its time and it didn't leave the same impression on me as it did on others in the cRPG community.

Necrooooooooo

Drithius said:

Necrooooooooo

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I love blasts from the past.

Well, if I had answered back in 2015 I would've said D.OS-WL2-PoE. But I replayed all three games this last year in preparation for the sequels and with the new content of the expansions for PoE, the DC of WL2 and the EE of D.OS. Verdict?

PoE: A totally different experience from 2 years ago. Good writing, excellent mechanics (I hated those the first time???), interesting character building, rewarding combat. The setting is a little dark for my taste though.

WL2: Still lacking in the combat department, shoot once or twice, that's about it for choice. Special abilities or something like that would have been fun. Character building is more interesting with perks, but I wish they would have made them more impactful. Excellent writing and good setting.

D:OS: Excellent combat mechanics, but I actually abandoned my second playthrough about 2/3 through. Love the humour, decent but uneven writing, less than stellar main story. Horrible itemization.

Based on my last playthroughs, I would rate them PoE-WL2-D.OS. The opposite of two years ago. Go figure.

D.OS2? Improves on almost every aspect of the first game, and is absolutely a great game. Love the combat, the character building, the setting. The writing feels much better than in the first one. Still dislike the itemization, and the over the top scaling (exponential curve). Fixed both the itemization and the scaling with a simple mod, and now loving every minute. Almost done with my playthrough, I'm on the final act. Can't wait to see if WL3 or PoE2 can come close to matching this.

You must have played a different PoE than I did

The combat was routinely a clusterfuck, but I also enjoyed PoE more than the other two titles. The character building, while not as refined as D&D, was quite fun in its own right.

WL2's henchman system just ruined the game for me. As scarce as skill points were, you pretty much needed to look up which hirelings covered what; it just wasn't fun in that regard, not to mention just how much the game plodded along.

And D:OS2 is severely flawed as I've critiqued in other threads.