Cyberpunk 2077 - Gamescom Gameplay Video

Darth Tagnan said:

Ehm, you responded to this:

If you don't see CDPR being a special case here, then so be it.

I was specifically talking about CDPR being a special case - and I've done everything I can to make that being the point very, very clear. Are you awake?

Once again, it's ok if you don't agree.

Click to expand...

Are you just being intentionally obtuse now? I honestly can't tell.

What is so confusing about what I said?

Nevermind… let's try somthing else here. How about you explain why CDPR is a "special case" as you put it.

Darth Tagnan said:

No, I'm fully aware that several people are MORE aware of it in one case, than in another case.

But that would be my opinion.

Yeah, we're on a message board dedicated to the exchange of things like the things we're exchanging about.

Do we have to remind ourselves of that, or?

Anyway, can we agree that we're done here?

Click to expand...

Cool

JDR13 said:

Are you just being intentionally obtuse now? I honestly can't tell.

What is so confusing about what I said?

Nevermind… let's try somthing else here. How about you explain why CDPR is a "special case" as you put it.

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that's what I've been trying to do for a while now.

I will refrain from commenting on the obtuse bit

But, let me repeat myself for the too-many-th time: It's ok if you don't agree.

I'm obviously not capable of "explaining" it in such a way that you will agree with me. Not in public, anyway.

Darth Tagnan said:

One example would be that I think joxer might actually like Prey and get a great experience, if only he could get past his absurdly obsessive dislike of respawns. When those respawns aren't in a game called Witcher 3, that is.

But maybe I'm wrong, who knows

Click to expand...

You're wrong. Respawns weren't the only stinking thing in that game. Remember minigames? I don't, but I remember utter disappointment with those. From Arkane I've expected better.
I believe I said before that Prey to me was a mediocre and forgettable experience. For some (odd?) reason, I cannot enjoy mediocrity and I don't find mundane stuff fun but rather irritating.

wolfgrimdark said:

One think I like about survival mode in FO4 is you have some of this sense of danger. My character can only take a few hits to go down and a head shot always kills him. Likewise many of my head shots can take down an enemy. Probably why I enjoy the combat so much. it is very high risk but for both player and enemy. Course I also play a glass cannnon type of sniper character. My tank melee guy can take more punishment. Still it feels about right.

Hoping C2077 gets this balance right as well.

Click to expand...

I hope CP2077 will never have something like that. Instead of silly difficulty options as if it was a racing game and not RPG, I hope it's your decisions that will have a sense of danger where any "wrong" choice can easily lead to your demise. Or even better, if certain choices can lead to death of temporary sidekics aka friends (just not Ashley/Kaidan mandatory choice style please) I'll adore this game more than any other.

JDR13 said:

The simple fact is that Bioware has fallen out of favor with a lot of people around here. However, the majority of them just comment that they're no longer as interested in BW titles, or they express regret that BW no longer makes the kind of games they enjoy.

Also, most of the negative comments I've seen were about games that those people have actually played.

There are unreasonble comments from time to time, but that's usually from the same 2 or 3 posters.

Click to expand...

I admit being one of those two, I've never played SW:TOR nor ever will and I will continue being negative about it. It's on you to believe if that's because of Bioware or because of mmo mania in general.

JDR13 said:

Well here's hoping they change the loot system substantially from the one they used in TW3.

Click to expand...

The video suggests it's changed already. I didn't notice V looting any killed trashmob. Which is a shame as I hoped the loot system will be exactly the same as in TW3.

JDR13 said:

They've also only released a total of 3 games so far.

Click to expand...

TW1, TW2, TW3 and Gwent Online. Yup, 3.

JDR13 said:

Isn't it always spread out though? I mean, that's the whole point of it being open-world to begin with. How spread out it's going to be depends on the size of the game world. The larger the world, the more spread out the content is.

Click to expand...

You could have an immensely large world where everything happens in a few dense cities or settlements, while everything else is mostly meaningless (to the game) wildlife / landscape.

But I dont think there are very extreme examples of that.

Darth Tagnan said:

I'm pretty sure that's what I've been trying to do for a while now.

I will refrain from commenting on the obtuse bit

But, let me repeat myself for the too-many-th time: It's ok if you don't agree.

I'm obviously not capable of "explaining" it in such a way that you will agree with me. Not in public, anyway.

Click to expand...

Then you've done a pretty poor job of it.

I had a lot more written, but I decided it was probably a waste of time at this point, and I think we should let the thread get back on topic.

And yes, I know it's ok to disagree, but thanks for letting me know anyways. I'm not as worried about needing to agree as you seem to be.

Cacheperl said:

JDR13 said:

Isn't it always spread out though? I mean, that's the whole point of it being open-world to begin with. How spread out it's going to be depends on the size of the game world. The larger the world, the more spread out the content is.

Click to expand...

You could have an immensely large world where everything happens in a few dense cities or settlements, while everything else is mostly meaningless (to the game) wildlife / landscape.

But I dont think there are very extreme examples of that.

Click to expand...

Yakuza 0 openworld is not spread out. It's unbelievably small map filled with enormous variety of different content. The variety is IMO the whole point of openworld, not spreading of grindy repetition.

Cacheperl said:

You could have an immensely large world where everything happens in a few dense cities or settlements, while everything else is mostly meaningless (to the game) wildlife / landscape.

But I dont think there are very extreme examples of that.

Click to expand...

In theory, sure. But I've never seen a game where the developers would distribute content in such a foolish manner.

It's always a balance - and developers are doing it in their own respective ways.

For open world non-sandbox/procedural games, I see it happening differently for the main players:

CDPR seems to focus on story content - meaning most of the "meat" is about dialogue sequences and cutscenes. They don't really focus much on an interactive world if it doesn't relate to a very specific handwritten quest.

Bioware seems to be more of a mix between story and distinct content that's not strictly story-related, even though most of it still relates to a quest. For the content that's not quest-based, I find it's mostly awful and hollow.

Bethsoft seem to focus on the free-roaming non-story experience the most, even if they've tried to enhance their main narratives. Personally, I don't think they've succeeded very well in the latter - but then again, it's an immense challenge when they insist on being so open and non-restrictive. On the other hand, I find their "incidental" content much more interesting than other games, except perhaps the PB games.

Piranha Bytes seem to follow the Bethsoft formula for the most part - except with a strong emphasis on faction-based stuff, but their worlds are typically significantly smaller - and they're much more strict with gating content through high-level enemies, and they're using gameplay systems that are simplistic and easy to balance for that purpose.

From your perspective probably that's true. From mine:
CDpr - mature and tons of humor
Bioware - mature and humor, but sadly most of it is cheesy and not risky enough
Bethesda - clunky, buggy and kindergarden style no lollygaggin' arrow to the knee humor
PB - no humor at all (R3 sidekicks were refreshing though!)

JDR13 said:

Then you've done a pretty poor job of it.

I had a lot more written, but I decided it was probably a waste of time at this point, and I think we should let the thread get back on topic.

Click to expand...

Well, my objective is not to change minds, after all. I'm just trying to explain my own position.

I'm not convinced I'm doing a bad job at that. I mean, I think there's the factor of whether or not people are willing to entertain that there are other ways to look at things - without those things necessarily being wrong.

Personally, I think I have a much, much easier time with that than you do.

But that's hardly productive.

And yes, I know it's ok to disagree, but thanks for letting me know anyways.

Click to expand...

You often seem to need a reminder about it, though I concede you've gotten better at accepting that others don't always agree with you. I've noted you tempering your responses to a much larger degree than you used to.

We could create a spectrum:

joxer <--------------------------------- JDR -----------DArt-------------------> pibbur

Is that a spectrum of mushrooms acceptance? Looks like it, although not sure pibbur loves them that much.

Darth Tagnan said:

Well, my objective is not to change minds, after all. I'm just trying to explain my own position.

I'm not convinced I'm doing a bad job at that. I mean, I think there's the factor of whether or not people are willing to entertain that there are other ways to look at things - without those things necessarily being wrong.

Personally, I think I have a much, much easier time with that than you do.

But that's hardly productive.

Click to expand...

It doesn't come as a surprise to me that you would believe that.

I don't envy you though. It can't be easy living in a world where everyone else has such a hard time understanding you.

JDR13 said:

It doesn't come as a surprise to me that you would believe that.

I don't envy you though. It can't be easy living in a world where everyone else has such a hard time understanding you.

Click to expand...

Everyone being you, right?

It comes very easy to me. But that's because I don't think there's any real value in being understood by people who're closed-minded. Rather, having people openly admitting that they probably understand what I'm saying - even if they're not really willing to speak of it in front of others - is of very, very little value to me.

But being understood by people of an open mind - who're inclusive by nature - is more interesting, but that's not always possible.

That said, I'm unusually comfortable in my own skin - I know. Not my choice, just my nature.

Darth Tagnan said:

Everyone being you, right?

It comes very easy to me. But that's because I don't think there's any real value in being understood by people who're closed-minded. Rather, having people openly admitting that they probably understand what I'm saying - even if they're not really willing to speak of it in front of others - is of very, very little value to me.

But being understood by people of an open mind - who're inclusive by nature - is more interesting, but that's not always possible.

That said, I'm unusually comfortable in my own skin - I know. Not my choice, just my nature.

Click to expand...

Nah, you're pretty easy to understand actually and not nearly as different from others as I think you'd like to be.

It's interesting though how often you mention the things that have so little value to you.

First I'm hard to understand and then I'm easy to understand. How confusing.

Anyway, thank you for another fruitful exchange based on how hard it is for you to accept the opinions of others

Well that wasn't very difficult or hard to predict.

Holy cow, that looks absolutely fantastic. Definitely upped my hype. Loved the atmosphere in Night City and how everything flows together, very immersive.

I just wonder how much freedom we'll actually have. Like, can the character pull out a gun in the middle of the street and gun down people? Also, how big is this city going to be exactly? Are all buildings accessible?

wiretripped said:

Like, can the character pull out a gun in the middle of the street and gun down people?

Click to expand...

In some streets you can, and in other streets you better off not pissing the cops (I'm talking about the 2020 setting, I can't know for 2077).
Cops are owned by corporations: they only protect people who serve the corporations, and they're maintaining minimal order in the city solely because too much chaos could damage corporate's interests (I'm still talking about the PnP setting here).

In resume, if there's any corporate building near the street you are pulling out a gun, cops will be very… "responsive".
If there's no corpos in the vicinity, cops won't care what you're doing whatsoever.

Winterfart said:

In some streets you can, and in other streets you better off not pissing the cops (I'm talking about the 2020 setting, I can't know for 2077).
Cops are owned by corporations: they only protect people who serve the corporations, and they're maintaining minimal order in the city solely because too much chaos could damage corporate's interests (I'm still talking about the PnP setting here).

In resume, if there's a corporate building near the street you are pulling out a gun, cops will be very… "responsive".
If there's not corpos in the vicinity, cops don't care what you're doing whatsoever.

Click to expand...

Since you seem to be well versed in the CP2020 setting, how would you categorize the writing in CP2077 based on the video? I know it's not much to go on, but I think there's enough of a style and vibe to make an educated guess.

What I mean is, do you think the dialogue is more due to CDPR wanting to be faithful to the material - or do you think it's the same sort of writing they would do for any other science fiction setting?

I'm asking because I'm trying to guage what to expect from it, in those terms. I mean, the best part of their past games is the writing/story - which I suspect is one of the few things we could all agree on.

Also, are there established examples of CP2020 novels? I know there's a lot of Shadowrun novels - but I don't know of any book written specifically for CP2020 and which might be considered a good one

Winterfart said:

In some streets you can, and in other streets you better off not pissing the cops (I'm talking about the 2020 setting, I can't know for 2077).
Cops are owned by corporations: they only protect people who serve the corporations, and they're maintaining minimal order in the city solely because too much chaos could damage corporate's interests (I'm still talking about the PnP setting here).

In resume, if there's any corporate building near the street you are pulling out a gun, cops will be very… "responsive".
If there's no corpos in the vicinity, cops won't care what you're doing whatsoever.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I assume there'll be repercussions if you do so, but I was more wondering whether the game will allow you to pull a gun and shoot at neutral/allied NPCs. There's been games where you simply are not able to draw your weapon in "neutral zones" or games where your sword swings simply pass through allies without doing damage... Like, would we be able to shoot (and kill) Jackie?

wiretripped said:

Also, how big is this city going to be exactly? Are all buildings accessible?

Click to expand...

I don't think that's known, yet. I actually think it is possible to make all buildings accessible, if they developed a way of procedurally (at design time) filling out the city with buildings and NPCs, and then finding a very efficient way to represent those layouts as levels. I seem to remember they were talking about that kind of tech at one point.

I would bet against it though, especially with talk of the console limitations.