Temple of Elemental Evil

Greyhawk is not the most high profile setting, at least not for someone who is an outside observer. I know that it has been around for a long time, and that it has influenced the game quite a bit, heck it was even a (the?) major setting for 3rd edition, but it lacks the high profile value of Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Krynn, Planescape and heck, it would seem like most people (that I have talked D&D with) known more about Dark sun than Greyhawk.

I should probably have worded that sentence better though.

Thrasher said:

Roleplay really comes into the game when you go to the other town and also enter the temple proper. I think the differences for an evil playthrough are rather signficant.

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Alignment can support RP or be simply a door A vs door B option.

Even with that, it is another regression area for RPGs as a genre as alignment has grown shallower as years passed.

Fnord said:

Greyhawk is not the most high profile setting, at least not for someone who is an outside observer. I know that it has been around for a long time, and that it has influenced the game quite a bit, heck it was even a (the?) major setting for 3rd edition, but it lacks the high profile value of Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Krynn, Planescape and heck, it would seem like most people (that I have talked D&D with) known more about Dark sun than Greyhawk.

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He didn't claim it was the most high profile setting.

Also, other than Forgotten Realms, I wouldn't say any of the settings you listed are high profile.

Fnord said:

Greyhawk is not the most high profile setting, at least not for someone who is an outside observer. I know that it has been around for a long time, and that it has influenced the game quite a bit, heck it was even a (the?) major setting for 3rd edition, but it lacks the high profile value of Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Krynn, Planescape and heck, it would seem like most people (that I have talked D&D with) known more about Dark sun than Greyhawk.

I should probably have worded that sentence better though.

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Thanks for the response. Just so you know; I asked for clarification simply because I'm interested in what others might view as the "..standard settings.." or as you clarified "..the most high profile setting.." .

The Gaming Industry is ever evolving. I'm always interested in the views of others and view gathering such knowledge as not only important but valuable.

JDR13 said:

He didn't claim it was the most high profile setting.

Also, other than Forgotten Realms, I wouldn't say any of the settings you listed are high profile. .

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@ both FNord & JDR13
I think if viewed from a Computer Gaming perspective then those mentioned settings (Forgotten Realms, Planescape, Dark sun, Krynn, and Eberron ) would indeed be viewed as High Profile simply by virtue of their having been used for many PC Games.

I would go on however diverted the original thread enough; apologies.

Ubbax
"A man must be both stupid and uncharitable who believes there is no virtue or truth but on his own side."—Joseph Addison

I grew up and learned on Greyhawk. I had a big color map of the world on my wall as a kid. Greyhawk world IS D&D to me.

I got back into gaming around 2003 or so, and started with Neverwinter Nights. I had no idea what Neverwinter was (didn't even know it was a city until I started up the game) and I still don't really know much about the world outside of Neverwinter, Baldur's Gate and Amn (I can't even remember the name of the city in BG2!)

JDR13 said:

He didn't claim it was the most high profile setting.

Also, other than Forgotten Realms, I wouldn't say any of the settings you listed are high profile.

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No, but I was explaining what I meant with standard D&D settings, which probably should have been worded differently.

Eberron is the current "default setting" for D&D, is it not? Planescape might not be in the spotlight right now, but I remember it being one of the settings that got a lot of attention back during the late 90's, and the setting that even most D&D haters claimed that they liked. Krynn was a high profile setting back when the dragonlance books were popular, and while it has stepped out of the spotlight, it is still a setting that a lot of people are familiar with, often more so than the other settings (with the exception of Forgotten realms). There were also a handful of computer games released for this setting. Dark sun had a few PC games released, and seem to be back in the spotlight again in the pen & paper RPG world.

Fnord said:

Eberron is the current "default setting" for D&D, is it not? Planescape might not be in the spotlight right now, but I remember it being one of the settings that got a lot of attention back during the late 90's, and the setting that even most D&D haters claimed that they liked. Krynn was a high profile setting back when the dragonlance books were popular, and while it has stepped out of the spotlight, it is still a setting that a lot of people are familiar with, often more so than the other settings (with the exception of Forgotten realms). There were also a handful of computer games released for this setting. Dark sun had a few PC games released, and seem to be back in the spotlight again in the pen & paper RPG world.

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To D&D fans maybe, but I was talking about those "outside observers" you mentioned.

Eberron had one game based on that setting, and it wasn't very popular. Krynn and Dark Sun haven't done much in the last 15 years. Forgotten Realms is really the only one that's familiar to a lot of non-D&D nerds, thanks to BG, IWD, and NWN.

I'm not a D&D fan, heck I've only played a very small amount of D&D, but D&D is still so influential and big that even as an outside observer, a person who does not play D&D (but who do play pen and paper RPGs), it is hard to not get at least a bit of information about D&D. In particular when there are adds for D&D in the magazines and D&D books in the bookstore.

And it might very well be a regional difference, but over here, Dragonlance is still very well known, even among non D&Ders, as is Planescape (in large due to Planescape torment, a game which it seems like everyone with an interest in CRPGs has at least played). It is a high profile setting because it is well known. As for Dark sun, it just seem to get a lot of shelf space, for some reason, and people still seem to remember the two SSI Dark sun games.

Ah ok. I wasn't talking about just getting a bit of information, I was talking about those settings being high profile outside of D&D circles.

Well, most D&D settings are not very famous outside of D&D circles. Heck, the only reason people know of Spelljammer is due to Boo. But I do think that the ones I mentioned are relatively well known among CRPGers/fantasy readers. Forgotten realms is, without a shadow of a doubt, the most famous D&D setting, the one that almost everyone knows about, even if they don't enjoy fantasy or CRPGs, but in my experience, the others that I mentioned are still well known (Dark sun is the only one of those that I think might require a bit more specialized RPG knowledge). It is also possible that we have regional differences, the dragonlance books got quite a lot of exposure when they were released, and can still be found in almost every library & bookstore around here.

Hey guys, can we get the thread a little back on topic? I appreciate conversation, but this has veered off track.

Anyway, I kept pushing on without a restart. Still having fun, but I haven't played in a couple days.

Ovenall said:

Anyway, I kept pushing on without a restart. Still having fun, but I haven't played in a couple days.

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That's usually a bad sign. If I'm really enjoying a game, I'll never go more than a full day without playing it, even if it's only for 30 minutes or so.

Especially with RPGs, where I'll lose the immersion factor and start feeling disconnected if I go multiple days without playing.

Btw, this thread is starting to make me really want to replay ToEE. I haven't played it since shortly after it was released, and I just realized how long that's been. I can't believe it's been nearly 8 years already since it was released.

BTW, there was a hilariously well done evil Let's Play thread on the Codex. One of the most enjoyable in the playground. Looks like it fell off the forum. It must have been a few years old.

Fnord said:

Forgotten realms is, without a shadow of a doubt, the most famous D&D setting, the one that almost everyone knows about, even if they don't enjoy fantasy or CRPGs,

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I'd have to disagree - I think it may be more generational (as opposed even to regional) as I think Greyhawk is definitely the most well known setting. I started playing PNP regularly in the early 80's and for a good 10 years that was the 'main' campaign world everyone knew, whether locally or at the various 'cons. I don't think Forgotten Realms even came around or was popular till the early 90's?

Back on topic - I really enjoyed the combat system and some of the little nods to the pen and paper in TOEE, I always felt like it was somewhat unfinished as far as story and content. Almost like the devs set out to make a D&D tool-set more than a game. Still well worth some hours playing with for the price, especially with the fan mods/patches.

JDR13 said:

That's usually a bad sign. If I'm really enjoying a game, I'll never go more than a full day without playing it, even if it's only for 30 minutes or so.

Especially with RPGs, where I'll lose the immersion factor and start feeling disconnected if I go multiple days without playing.

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Dude, I never get to play games every single day. I'm 40 years old and married, and have a life on top of that.

Ovenall said:

Dude, I never get to play games every single day. I'm 40 years old and married, and have a life on top of that.

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Bah... paltry excuses.

How many children, and how old are they?

No kids. Ever.

Meh… The "I have a life" remark doesn't hold as much water without kiddies.

I thought it was the other way around, actually

I found the combat engine in ToEE a real delight to experience and enjoy. It's probably the best western cRPG turn based combat engine we've had since the goldbox games really. It had so much more potential to be utilised for further modules.

But sadly I felt that the story was very lacklustre by virtue of it being a straight oldschool dungeon crawler conversion. For me it didn't favour particularly well when compared to BG/BG2 for richness. Finishing up the Hommlet quests was a real chore the second time around, so much so that I skipped a few and ended up trying to finish the game as quickly as I could.

I've finished it twice - first without the Co8 patches (neutral) and then with them for my evil playthrough. I'll have to try my good aligned playthrough some time. I'd also like to check out the Keep on the Borderlands demo the Co8 guys made at some point. Any feedback from players here about that?

Interestingly, the soundtrack is quite unique in style, with the electronic ambient touches. I've actually been using it in the background whilst playing Ruins of Myth Drannor lately.

Anyway, good to see ToEE getting some love. There's also a FRUA (Forgotten Realms Unlimited Adventures) release of the game which is apparently more true to the source material, though I have yet to test it.