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April 16th, 2020, 18:20
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
Many people consent to experimental treatments simply because they consider the risks are outweighed by the potential benefits to them.
We're still not understanding each other it seems.

I'm saying that before wishing for anyone to accept a potential suicide, first offer a sacrifice of all your children and parents. Not yourself, no. But your own genome.
Outweight whatever with your offsprings before planning to hurt others.

Sorry but I have no other means to explain that every person is people and not cattle. You don't have feelings towards them, but they all have their families who love them. These families do not want them being hurt. Just like you don't want your own put to risk.
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April 16th, 2020, 18:27
Originally Posted by a pibbur View Post
I am a bit in doubt, here. One thing is testing if it works, another thing is evaluating side effects, and a third thing is the number of participants needed. So I think to get reliable results we need the time. Shortcutting will, as I see it, mean that one starts using a vaccine before we really know how useful it is.

I think that WHO and most responsible medical services and companies will be against it, but some political leaders may try to enforce it (and no, I'm not thinking specifically about anyone and I won't go into any discussion about that).

a pibbur who can't guarantee that he knows what he's talking about.
I'm being a bit glib talking about "the money bed", but that's because I've learned over the years that the question "what does the money want?" tends to be the salient one in much of public policy. But perhaps that's just cynicism.

I can't speak to the situation in other countries, but I can say that I talk to a couple of folks working in Whitehall and Public Health England. The discussion about how the vaccine testing process could be accelerated, and that standards of what is acceptable should be assessed in a different light, is definitely on the table.
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April 16th, 2020, 18:32
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
I'm being a bit glib talking about "the money bed", but that's because I've learned over the years that the question "what does the money want?" tends to be the salient one in much of public policy. But perhaps that's just cynicism.

I can't speak to the situation in other countries, but I can say that I talk to a couple of folks working in Whitehall and Public Health England. The discussion about how the vaccine testing process could be accelerated, and that standards of what is acceptable should be assessed in a different light, is definitely on the table.
Ok. I guess it's safe to assume that the UK is not the only one.

a pibbur who may see the world in a somewhat pinkish light.

PS. I guess so-called compassionate use of untested drugs is to some degree comparable. DS.
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April 16th, 2020, 18:41
Originally Posted by a pibbur View Post
Ok. I guess it's safe to assume that the UK is not the only one.

a pibbur who may see the world in a somewhat pinkish light.

PS. I guess so-called compassionate use of untested drugs is to some degree comparable. DS.
I think there will be an intense debate. I think crossing the line of deliberately infecting a subject with a dangerous pathogen to test the efficacy of a treatment is a line that many will be loath to cross. The problem with the core of that argument – that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few – could obviously be used to justify all those other horrors.

I suppose there is a counter argument, that there is a difference because immunity may have utility to the patient himself. It may be that it’s important to the subject that he have immediate immunity, so that he no longer poses an infection risk to vulnerable members of his family or community, for example, and considers the small risk to confirm that immunity is justified and rational.
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April 16th, 2020, 21:23
When you feel really, really down by the corona situation you may be ready for this:

loading…


Yes, it's Petter Northug, our (now retired) multiple gold medal winning cross-country skier. And no, he can't sing, and he knows it. But, despite being perceived as somewhat arrogant, he actually has quite a bit of humour and self-irony.

a pibbur who hopes he sings better than said skier.
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April 16th, 2020, 21:36
Did you bold the letter U in the above post or am I going blinder? American humor, other English speaking countries humour.
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April 16th, 2020, 21:39
Originally Posted by crpgnut View Post
Did you bold the letter U in the above post or am I going blinder? American humor, other English speaking countries humour.
I certainly did .

a pibbour who learned UK English at schoul… eh… school.
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April 16th, 2020, 21:44
Its interesting when you compare US to Sweden. Sweden currently has a higher death rate per 100.000 population. When compared to Norway, Swedenˋs daily death count now amounts to Norways total death count. And yet there seems to be little protest against the strategy.
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April 16th, 2020, 23:48
Originally Posted by hishadow View Post
Its interesting when you compare US to Sweden. Sweden currently has a higher death rate per 100.000 population. When compared to Norway, Swedenˋs daily death count now amounts to Norways total death count. And yet there seems to be little protest against the strategy.
I think the jury is still out on how the various strategies will fare. It's certainly a risky strategy, and I don't think I would have opted for it.

In the UK, the thinking was very similar and would probably have continued, but the UK is very London-centric (as is our coronavirus outbreak), and it became pretty clear that allowing the situation to develop would have an horrendous outcome. But London has almost the same population as the whole of Sweden, is by nature a rather chaotic cauldron, and major international hub. Is it possible that Sweden can rely upon a more sparse, informed population behaving responsibly? I don't know, but there's a long way to go.

In the end, no country is likely to be in lockdown for the length of the pandemic, and a halfway-house that re-opens the lockdowns with restrictions, and monitors the situation, is likely to be the strategy of all nations for most of the duration.
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April 17th, 2020, 18:57
Originally Posted by hishadow View Post
Its interesting when you compare US to Sweden. Sweden currently has a higher death rate per 100.000 population. When compared to Norway, Swedenˋs daily death count now amounts to Norways total death count. And yet there seems to be little protest against the strategy.
There are other factors, including not shutting down the economy, still a long road to go, and ultimately the global impact on mortality, the addition from the corona virus might be a blip, Sweden might be under their average mortality rate.
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April 19th, 2020, 15:44
So finally did a little shopping and I have to say I hate doing that right now. Nobody stays six feet apart and the arrows ruin the trip. Add to the list grumpy employees and it's like trip to the circus. Not looking forward to a year of this. Oh I almost forgot the mandatory mask you have to wear now.
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April 19th, 2020, 16:55
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
So finally did a little shopping and I have to say I hate doing that right now. Nobody stays six feet apart …
Nothing a bit of entrepreneurship can not solve in the US.

Here's the concept, the road to a millionaire life, free of charge:

Starting a I'm packing stand your ground/conceal/open carry line of clothes, designed in the US, manufactured in Mexico/China for the margin.

On the front, I'm packing/I conceal carry etc

On the back
  • 6 feet away or 6 feet under, your choice
  • the breath of my gun vs the breath of your mouth, watcha bet?
  • 6 feet is a short distance for a bullet
  • I stand my ground, better to stand yours
  • Contamination by lead is more lethal than contamination by corona virus
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April 19th, 2020, 19:39
If our interest in RPG's and their depiction of combat has told us anything, it's that 6 feet is melee distance.
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April 19th, 2020, 19:55
Well I was actually one minute away from hearing mortal combat and finish him.It would of resembled a few scenes from Doom. To many games have trained my instincts well. Still the trips are becoming nightmares.
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April 20th, 2020, 10:42
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
So finally did a little shopping and I have to say I hate doing that right now. Nobody stays six feet apart and the arrows ruin the trip. Add to the list grumpy employees and it's like trip to the circus. Not looking forward to a year of this. Oh I almost forgot the mandatory mask you have to wear now.
Yeah then you go to a farmers' market and literally no one is wearing a mask. At least the sellers are not as grumpy
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April 20th, 2020, 11:05
Originally Posted by kazga View Post
Yeah then you go to a farmers' market and literally no one is wearing a mask. At least the sellers are not as grumpy
Probably will as supermarkets are not ideal for shopping right now. I might stick to a few small local stores. They cost more but they need the support more
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April 20th, 2020, 11:06
In my experience customers and employees are more friendly, patient and helpful than before corona. No arrows. 5 feet is required here, most seem to respect that. Employees wear shirts that remind everyone to keep distance. Masks are not required (unless you work in health care).
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April 20th, 2020, 11:48
The masks are now required by executive order of the govenor. Mostly for large gatherings where one can't follow the distancing rule. Most stores limit the amount of shoppers but most still get close.

Not counting all the other restrictions just to shop. Some won't even take cash anymore.
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April 20th, 2020, 11:56
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
The masks are now required by executive order of the govenor. Mostly for large gatherings where one can't follow the distancing rule. Most stores limit the amount of shoppers but most still get close.

Not counting all the other restrictions just to shop
Bottom line - Americans as a general populous are incredibly selfish and lack empathy. They would sooner have others literally die than be slightly inconvenienced. People have always loved blaming 'the young' … but as we have seen recently it is much more closely linked to what level you pulled in 2016.

And … those same people who said 'there should be a law …' when Black Lived Matter protesters blocked traffic to get action about so many forms of racist and racist violence - are now out blocking emergency vehicles getting to hospitals to protest wearing masks and social distancing. Typical.
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April 21st, 2020, 12:35
Originally Posted by Cacheperl View Post
If our interest in RPG's and their depiction of combat has told us anything, it's that 6 feet is melee distance.
Must be a UgoIgo stuff. No worries here, life is not UgoIgo.
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