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Default VtM: Bloodlines 2 - Brian Mitsoda & Ka'ai Cluney Fired

August 20th, 2020, 15:30
Originally Posted by crpgnut View Post
Ooh, hope you guys don't have any coal mines, oil refineries, nuclear plants, etc. Goodness!
Treatment works a lot better if people know that they have work and friends to return to if they get sober. Part of the problem with drug/alcohol treatment is that it often comes too late, when the dependence is heavy and the addicted person has few if any friends left and work is gone. It becomes very hard to stay sober if you have nothing meaningfulto do.
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August 20th, 2020, 15:54
Originally Posted by bjon045 View Post
What have bugs got to do with anything, he isn't even a developer? Brian basically created the entire narrative for Bloodlines. There wouldn't be a Bloodlines 2 worth a damn without him. Bloodlines is what made him a legend.

So anyone who thinks up a good game is a legend? Even if it was effectively unplayable. Lots of those at many companies, to choose one that is often bashed - Bioware

To be even more pointed, he is a legend for something that was a good idea but badly implemented. The list of ’legends’ gets longer and longer.

I want to play a game. Therefore bugs are a part of my decision making and if the named lead doesn’t seem to care about bugs or has a history of releasing games with bugs that matters to me.

And, before you jump down my neck, I also have $$ tied up in the game.
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August 20th, 2020, 16:52
Originally Posted by Hurls View Post
Mr Mitsoda does not seem to have delivered a big and/or bug-free success anywhere. He disavowed his alpha protocol work, VTM 1 was, to be polite, about as bug free as the Everglades.
Mitsoda is a writer, not a programmer. VTM is one of the best written games of all time.
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August 20th, 2020, 17:16
Umm, there is a logic hole for me. Regardless of the writing if there are bugs I can't see some/all(?) of this writing. To me, writing a game without effective implementation seems pretty cushy and unrealistic.
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August 20th, 2020, 19:32
This makes me sad As several people say, Brian Mitsoda is a great writer, Bloodlines 1 is one of my favorite games and Dead State was super-great with the limited budget it had. Everything he touches, he makes better (imo) and I saw him as the heart and soul of Bloodlines 2, its reason to exist basically.

That they fire him now. Well, that is catastrophic for the title. I can't see this being about someone disagreeing with the story/politics, as yeah they should have known the gist of that 4 years ago, so why fire him now? Also, he was the one pushing for this game, you don't fire your singularly most important person unless there're massive problems of some kind. So of course there's something behind all this that is not disclosed. Probably to do with development problems/different visions. At least I really hope it's not something related to sexual harassment++, like with Avellone, but that is more or less the only thing where firing him would make sense both financially and artistically.

As it stands, I fear Bloodlines 2 will now devolve into something completely different (action focused), milking the name, where they will remove his writing and ideas and replace it with something (to me) less interesting.

What a shame, so I hope to be proven wrong.
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August 20th, 2020, 21:05
Repost.

The Codex found this post on Discord.

Can't verify it so as usual take it with a grain of salt.

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August 20th, 2020, 21:44
Maybe Masquerade is just doomed to be a great IP wrecked by mismanagement.

Even the VtM card game was a missed opportunity!
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August 20th, 2020, 22:47
Originally Posted by Hurls View Post
Umm, there is a logic hole for me. Regardless of the writing if there are bugs I can't see some/all(?) of this writing. To me, writing a game without effective implementation seems pretty cushy and unrealistic.
Game design, project management, world creation and solid coding are all equally instrumental to a successful RPG release.

Releasing games in broken buggy state is usually a fault of the publisher. In VtM1 case Activision should have waited till summer. Or kicked Troyka harder.

How much Troyka was at fault is pretty clear too. Shit coding was apparent in all their games, whyle game design and narrative were varying from good to excellent.

Arcanum is still playable and enjoyable. Design was flawed, story was good. Bugs, many bugs.

ToEE was playable and bland as a porridge. Bugs, many bugs.

VtM1 was released in broken state and by the time it got fixed sales were lost for good (people who knew about broken release, just pirated it). Design wise, world creation, NPCs, narrative were all top notch for the time.

Game got cult following and many unofficial patches and improvements and is still one of the best games of the last 20 years, IMO.
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August 21st, 2020, 07:45
I also pre-ordered the whole package (was around 90 € iirc) as soon as it was possible because VtM: B is one of my favorite game of all times. I also did it because I was sure Paradox would want to make this right because they are now the IP owner. Didn't know of Hardsuit Labs before, but the personnel (now gone) looked good.

So I hope this really was more about mismanagement of resources rather than story/plot or the game just being bad.
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August 21st, 2020, 10:23
Someone on the Paradox forums posted a screenshot of hardsuit getting a $1-2 million loan in May, so another guess could be that they are almost out of money.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum…1412115/page-6
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August 21st, 2020, 12:23
@Old Grognard

If your post is true, then I feel strangely more optimistic. Perhaps there is the core of a very good and ambitious game that has already been developed and that a very experienced game producer who has done big AAA games and who knows how to manage a big team can salvage. It also would mean Brian Mitsoda was not fired because of his creative vision, but because of his lack of practical skills. This matches what I know from Dead State, which also took extremely long to finish and which was buggy and rough around the edges at release.
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August 21st, 2020, 13:32
Originally Posted by forgottenlor View Post
@Old Grognard

If your post is true, then I feel strangely more optimistic. Perhaps there is the core of a very good and ambitious game that has already been developed and that a very experienced game producer who has done big AAA games and who knows how to manage a big team can salvage. It also would mean Brian Mitsoda was not fired because of his creative vision, but because of his lack of practical skills. This matches what I know from Dead State, which also took extremely long to finish and which was buggy and rough around the edges at release.
I agree with this. Managing a team, time and money might be a very different skill set compared to what Mitsoda is good at. Modern computer games are very complex, and no one can do everything. It's plausible at least.

It doesn't, however, explain that Mitsoda himself doesn't seem to understand what happened. He should know, unless paradox/hardsuit has bosses without communication skills, or he has severe problems himself with understanding other people. Or a combination.
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August 21st, 2020, 16:51
Other employment opportunities are available to good writers, there's nothing holding them within the gaming industry when its been proven over and again that gaming industry skills isn't someone's strong suit.

Perhaps he should have applied to TellTale Games all those years back? Oh, wait…
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August 21st, 2020, 19:43
Glad I didn't pre-order. The studio's lack of RPG exoerience, as far as I know, has always made me nervous. Mitsoda was the only reason I was planning to buy it day 1. Now, I'll only buy it if it gets good reviews from people I trust.
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August 21st, 2020, 19:55
The codex dug up some more dirt about Brian Mitsoda.

Link - https://www.neogaf.com/threads/blood…post-259789547

Spoiler – Brian Mitsoda's Past Getting Fired

Seriously looks like he had no luck with his past jobs if true also.
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August 21st, 2020, 20:45
Originally Posted by Old Grognard View Post
The codex dug up some more dirt about Brian Mitsoda.



Link - https://www.neogaf.com/threads/blood…post-259789547



Spoiler – Brian Mitsoda's Past Getting Fired


Seriously looks like he had no luck with his past jobs if true also.
Maybe he really has problems with not being able to change stuff and getting stuck on his vision, and his vision only?

Off-topic:
Spoiler – I went to university with a guy like that
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August 21st, 2020, 20:52
One thing for me in all this is that Brian Mitsoda doesn't hold the same cache that he does for many of you. I think the original Bloodlines games is a great game, and I've played it multiple times. But a well written game? Eh, sometimes. It's nothing amazing in that department. And Mitsoda's other history is pretty spotty. Dead State wasn't great.

As far as the new guy, who knows. I do know that I enjoy some of the series he's worked on. Besides, it's not like they're re-writing the game from the ground up. He's there to bring it home, caulk the cracks, whatever.

It's never a good thing when a production has issues this major this far into it, but I don't necessarily think losing those two is its death knell.
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August 21st, 2020, 22:10
I suppose one question is whether he was hired as a permanent member of the studio, or if it was just a contract for this piece of work. If it's the latter, then the idea makes some sense that he might have been let go because the project was dragging on, and his input was no longer necessary. If it's the former, that seems more questionable. I'd have thought that in studios that maintain a permanent team of mixed disciplines, they must have a pipeline of production, where the writers and artists move on to pre-production of the next game after their contribution is complete.
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August 22nd, 2020, 05:17
I smell monetisation bullshit coming for this game.
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August 22nd, 2020, 05:24
Originally Posted by Silver View Post
I smell monetisation bullshit coming for this game.
Wasn't that the plan already with extra vampire clans being offered eventually?
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