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Default Baldur's Gate 3, Watcher Early Access Impressions

October 10th, 2020, 05:11
Surprised there already isn't a thread for this. Maybe I missed one somewhere else?

I've already got a backlog of games so I don't need to *immediately* jump into this, especially at the $60 price tag for Early Access. Ironically I think I'll wait for the initial EA launch to get patched up a bit before dipping my toe in, if I do at all until actual one.

From what I've read so far the consensus is that it feels like a Divinity game in a Forgotten Realms skin and if you enjoy Divinity games you'll probably enjoy this but don't go in expecting Baldur's Gate (despite the title.) Is that fair?

I'm sure there's a fair amount of Watchers that jumped into this, what's your impressions?

Edited: Title to clarify.
Last edited by Mosaic; October 11th, 2020 at 09:47.
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October 19th, 2020, 10:21
Here is what I posted elsewhere (sorry I find these forums confusing):

Originally Posted by largh View Post
Baldur's gate 3 early access

I haven't enjoyed an RPG this much since Pathfinder: Kingmaker and would like to convey that this will become an excellent RPG. Those who are not going to try the EA: stay strong - there are plenty of bugs and poorly working elements in the game at the moment. You're doing right by not spoiling the enjoyment Those who want to try: this game is so complex that I doubt that there will be two similar playthroughs, so you might as well go for it instead of watching videos of others playing the EA.

I am almost ready to forgive the naming of the game as Larian has teased out elements that made the original entries classics and improved on them. The low-level forest exploration is back and is as enjoyable as I remember it from BG 1, although the lack of day/night cycle impairs the atmosphere a little bit. Anyone familiar with DnD lore will get *that* vibe from the game and feel right home. There is a great feeling of involuntary adventure about the party. NPCs are generally well-written and complex. None feel like a slave created for the player. Everybody has their own agenda and the agendas of the player and joinable NPCs just happen to entwine for a while. The good and evil are somewhere there in the background but the game is written so well that both appear as reasonable options. The internal battle of using your mystical powers is also there but does not work very well in the early access (will no doubt be fixed).

A paladin-like brainless charging to battle is discouraged and you can infiltrate and talk your way through the enemies. Your party feels so underpowered against some of the enemies that the game almost asks you to choose another way than a direct confrontation. This gives the game a novel or tabletop RPG feel as you do not just delete the world around you by killing everybody. Even goblins are mighty creatures when there are enough of them. Talking of enemies: they depend on your choices. You can play good, neutral, evil, or mix all of these. Depending on what you do, some factions become hostile while others become "allies". A nice thing is that playing evil does not feel any eviler than playing a good character. The factions are just different sides of DnD lore.

One of the things I liked the most about the game was that playing a rogue does not feel pointless any longer. It is fun and rogue is a valuable asset in a battle. I tend to pick troubled characters in RPGs and enjoy playing a drow in DnD games. The game responded quite nicely to being a drow, although I feel that the NPCs could have been even more hostile towards my character. Scaling walls is currently missing from the game and would add enjoyment to the rogue & drow combination. Yet, implementing this might be difficult.

There is one thing I have not seen in similar games before: the use of light and eyesight, even though this aspect has been baked into DnD for a long time. BG3 does an attempt on this by darkening the screen in low-light settings for humans and by giving some disadvantages in the battle. Drow on the other hand does not suffer from these penalties but does not have any penalties on the surface either! The use of lighting is a great idea and could be vastly improved from what it is now. If Larian got the light thing right (see here), BG3 could be a truly innovative entry to cRPGs.

Even if they did not fix any of these things, the game would still be excellent when published without the countless bugs it has at the moment. There is still the Larian vibe, which some people on this forum appear to be allergic to. If you're not, and love turn-based fantasy RPGs, this game might well become a GotY or even GotD for you.
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October 19th, 2020, 21:31
That sounds pretty great actually.

The only thing that makes me hesitate is that everyone raved about DOS2 and I merely found it "just okay." Larian's sense of humor tends to ruin my immersion (not their fault, that's on me.) So I'm waiting to see if that bleeds into BG3 or not.
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October 19th, 2020, 21:40
Originally Posted by Mosaic View Post
That sounds pretty great actually.

The only thing that makes me hesitate is that everyone raved about DOS2 and I merely found it "just okay." Larian's sense of humor tends to ruin my immersion (not their fault, that's on me.) So I'm waiting to see if that bleeds into BG3 or not.
Larian has almost completely turned over their writing staff at this point.
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October 19th, 2020, 22:50
Originally Posted by Mosaic View Post
The only thing that makes me hesitate is that everyone raved about DOS2 and I merely found it "just okay." Larian's sense of humor tends to ruin my immersion (not their fault, that's on me.) So I'm waiting to see if that bleeds into BG3 or not.
I personally liked some of the humor they had in their earlier games. Especially the discussions with animals were hilarious Anyway, they have heavily watered down that stuff. Probably listened to you I only found it in books and descriptions of items.

Perhaps I forgot to highlight that the game is buggier than a jungle ATM. If you have a low tolerance for bugs, stay away from it.
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October 20th, 2020, 00:38
I played through Wasteland 3 on launch, so I'd say I have a medium tolerance for bugs. The only thing that "bugged" me was the load times, which I hear have since been patched.

I'm not opposed to humor, I found Wasteland 3 surprisingly hilarious at points. My issue with Larian humor isn't that I didn't find it funny in the moment but felt it was overly silly in a way that seemed inconsistent with the setting lore, for the sake of the joke.

I'll probably wait for some of it to be smoothed over still, not like I don't have plenty of other games pending.
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October 20th, 2020, 00:50
That was an awesome review @largh - lots of nice detail and agree with many points. I was nodding my head as I was reading and sipping my evening coffee (which is bad but I need energy to play more BG3 tonight as I can sleep in a little bit tomorrow).

Some of my own quick thoughts as another point of view towards the game - neither right nor wrong.

- While I enjoyed DDOS2 I never finished. I got to like 97% done, very close to the ending, and I got burnt out. Most of that was turn based combat but now that I am finding I enjoy the combat in BG3 (most of the time … one battle with the goblins, with a short rest, was 2.5 hours long and I had to stay up to 2am to finish it as I was afraid to just let me computer sit over night). It was a mix of so many long drawn out battles combined with too much environment interaction, overwhelming effects, and the crazy loot everywhere. I find the lower loot aspect to BG3 more appealing - getting a good magic item is a treat and they are also far more unique then simple +1 all the time, although some are like that. For example some are like "After X thing occurs then Y will happen for you". They are a bit more nuanced which I like. The interaction with the environment is still busy but not as busy and I find it easier to deal with. Also while the humor was okay certain parts of DDOS2 got on my nerves after a while. So after losing hours of game play (like 6 hours worth of combat) due to many long TB combat one night I uninstalled the game in a fit of annoyance even though I was right at the end. I just couldn't stomach it. I read the ending on WIKI and left it at that. Hopefully that won't happen with BG3 but I can tell already that I like the game so far, in EA state, way more than I ever did DDOS2.

I haven't enjoyed an RPG this much since Pathfinder: Kingmaker and would like to convey that this will become an excellent RPG. Those who are not going to try the EA: stay strong - there are plenty of bugs and poorly working elements in the game at the moment. You're doing right by not spoiling the enjoyment Those who want to try: this game is so complex that I doubt that there will be two similar playthroughs, so you might as well go for it instead of watching videos of others playing the EA.

- My own feeling here is that the internal struggle with the Illithiad mental abilities was the best I had ever seen in a game. Mainly because it was the first time I truly felt compelled to use them even though I felt confident I would pay a price for it much later on. The reason for that is because the game can be very punishing on dice roles and combat.

For example - you are deep in some enemy territory trying to persuade, charm, intimidate, fool your way through. Suddenly you get the feeling you are in too deep. Do you risk a die roll that may have extremely high odds? Maybe you don't have the skill you need and you don't want to reload or get int a combat you can't win. So that little voice in your head is going *AUTHORITY* - Make them do what you want as you only need to roll a 1 to pass. Never in a game have I been so tempted to actually be "charmed" by a computer AI to take the easy way out knowing I may damn myself in the process. So I thought the whole inner battle was superbly well done as it was constantly tempting me to cave into it. I often sat at the keyboard fighting my own inner desire to take the easy path instead of risk a die roll.

- I like how the whole good/evil isn't clear and as Largh said both sides feel natural and easy to pursue overall. I still play good but I found myself liking some of the bad guys and sometimes wanting to join in with them.

- Rogue, totally agree. Not since Skyrim and FO4 have I had so much fun with a "rogue" style class. I felt they really nailed the stealth in turn based combat - something I always felt was useless and tedious in most party based games, especially TB ones. This was the first game I really got into it - to the point the rogue passed the ranger and warlock as my favorite of the three. I also played a Drow, something I never did before. Usually go Tiefling, if an option, otherwise its always human or half-elf (now and then a half-orc). I had the best time playing the Drow and loved it. I agree maybe the reactions could be more intense but on the other hand you are in a druid grove filled with hellspawn Tieflings and another camp are goblins and Drow … so I guess maybe the Tieflings would be more open. And the Druids … well they were used to the Tieflings. I will be curious how those in the city react … then again Baldur's Gate is supposed to be a melting pot so maybe it doesn't have to be that intense.

- I am fine with the color, lighting, and feel myself. The game is gorgeous and rich. I noticed the change in light when switching characters but my main always had some dark or super night vision. I do like that about the Drow. I would not want a penalty on the surface during the day because it is always day and it would annoy me to no end if I couldn't enjoy the visuals outside. If they had night/day then maybe have a penalty for the Drow vision. I suppose that is also why Astarion can be outside during the day - they didn't do night.

As for bugs, I have been very lucky from the sounds of it. I now have 50.6 hours played and have had 1 crash. I have seen some dialogue with no lips moving, a couple of quest errors and bad markers, my fight with a certain hag was buggy as she didn't fight back so my thief just backstabbed her over and over Also a lot of the items near the end of the game I have place holder icons for.

I am sure there are bugs with mechanics and abilities I have missed, and probably some quest issues I glossed over and didn't notice. In my head, that I recall, maybe a half-dozen quests failed to wrap up or work right but compared to what I could get done that seemed pretty minor.

Not saying there aren't bugs! Just that I have been lucky and overall the game has played for me as well as some "fully" released games. To the point that I often forgot I was playing an EA game it was running so smoothly and polished. So I guess your mileage may vary when it comes to bugs.

PS - I can't say I will ever like turn based combat that much, certainly not like when I was younger and played TB all the time, as it is just too time consuming and slow for me. BUT I enjoy it far more in BG3 than I ever did in DDOS2 or ATOM or some of the other TB games I played in the last few years. I still prefer RTwP as my favorite, or something like FO4 and Skyrim, but at least I am enjoying it somewhat in BG3. A lot of that is because the game is just so much fun - so many cool quests, dialogues, twists and turns … I can get through it.

PPS - Also one of the quests was so creepy and so not a "happy ever after" that I was a bit stunned when it was over. I had some rather deplorable choices to make and wasn't happy with either of them but not really a bad thing as not every quest ending should be happy ever after.
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October 20th, 2020, 09:13
Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
That was an awesome review @largh…I find the lower loot aspect to BG3 more appealing - getting a good magic item is a treat and they are also far more unique then simple +1 all the time, although some are like that.
Thanks @wolfgrimdark, absolutely! This is one of the reasons why I am one of the few (?) who liked BG1 better than 2. Less is more when it comes to magical items. Even +1 items can be made feel special when there aren't many of them around. I wish they'll stay sparing regarding magical loot throughout the game. IMO, loot-spam has partially spoiled many otherwise great games (D:OS2 is one, Kingmaker another example). In many games, there is so much loot that I do not care any longer. I am not willing to refit my characters after every second battle.

Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
- While I enjoyed DDOS2 I never finished…It was a mix of so many long drawn out battles combined with too much environment interaction, overwhelming effects, and the crazy loot everywhere.
I agree that there is that TB danger here that many watchers may not like. Some of the fights were too long and I don't see this issue will be entirely fixed in the final version of the game (but again, if you go against an entire camp of enemies, what do you expect? You could have handled the situation differently). Some of the environmental effects were annoying although much less prominent than in D:OS2. I saw a lot of complaining about this on the forums and believe the effects will be made less permanent during the development. Instead of those mad water, fire, poison, etc. fields, interactable effects were placed more conservatively than in D:OS2. I liked that and noticed that many battles would have actually been a lot easier had I used the environment. The hints on using the environment are more subtle than in the previous games.

Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
My own feeling here is that the internal struggle with the Illithiad mental abilities was the best I had ever seen in a game. Mainly because it was the first time I truly felt compelled to use them even though I felt confident I would pay a price for it much later on. The reason for that is because the game can be very punishing on dice roles and combat.
Right. If you play it as it is supposed to be played, it will work. I was still in the "this is EA, I won't see the consequences and won't give a damn" mode and therefore it did not work for me. I agree that it is well implemented especially when you want to roleplay.

Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
As for bugs, I have been very lucky from the sounds of it. I now have 50.6 hours played and have had 1 crash. I have seen some dialogue with no lips moving, a couple of quest errors and bad markers, my fight with a certain hag was buggy as she didn't fight back so my thief just backstabbed her over and over Also a lot of the items near the end of the game I have place holder icons for.
Either you were lucky or I was unlucky (luck is earned though ). I also experienced a handful of quests that did not end. I had to save scum my way through bugs quite a bit. In the end, some of my companions outside my party would always attack me when I fast traveled into the camp. I had to murder these people and ended up only with companions that were in my party. I could not sleep either because the game would go to a cutscene and freeze, so I exploited food and save-scumming to finish the game. Oh well, it's just an EA. The point is to focus on the essence and not get too attached to your character quite yet.

Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
PS - I can't say I will ever like turn based combat that much, certainly not like when I was younger and played TB all the time, as it is just too time consuming and slow for me.
I happen to like the chess-like elements in TB games. I am a slow gamer always taking at least 150% longer than the estimated game length. I do not enjoy shooters etc. stressful games, so take my analysis accordingly. You might not like similar games that I do.

Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
I had some rather deplorable choices to make and wasn't happy with either of them but not really a bad thing as not every quest ending should be happy ever after.
That's what made the Witcher games great Please do not tell us more about this quest as I want to experience it too.

One thing I forgot to mention are the companions: each of them seems to be a ticking time-bomb. Although written very well, these kinds of overblown characters are very typical for Larian and I wish they could for once write a bit more balanced characters. I ended up murdering my companions due to the bugs in the game and felt great about it. That's how much I liked them Actually, they deserved to die more than any "enemy" boss.
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October 20th, 2020, 10:49
@wolfgrimdark thanks for posting your Impression. As you know our tastes in games is almost similar. As I'm not a fan of TB RPGs, but I was in my youth just like you were.

So I'm sure I'll enjoy the game as well.

Hint: Look for a Bugbear and OwlBear in a Barn was the most hilarious thing I've ever seen in a RPG. I've seen it spoiled on IGN. Seems you can miss a lot of optional content.
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October 20th, 2020, 11:12
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
@wolfgrimdark thanks for posting your Impression. As you know our tastes in games is almost similar. As I'm not a fan of TB RPGs, but I was in my youth just like you were.

So I'm sure I'll enjoy the game as well.

Hint: Look for a Bugbear and OwlBear in a Barn was the most hilarious thing I've ever seen in a RPG. I've seen it spoiled on IGN. Seems you can miss a lot of optional content.
There's a crazy amount of hidden content. Exploration is usually not amazing in this type of game when compared to first person or third person games from my experience…

This game however is taking exploration to a different level.

Some paths aren't even that hard to find once you know where to go.

A very minor spoiler below. In one of the first areas there's a person who is being stalked by an assassin bugbear. I didn't even see the area the first time I went there.

In one area there are some places to jump on to find a chest with some gold.


The game is vast and has many ways to solving issues.

Unfortunately it has many many bugs. So I am putting it down for a few more weeks. I'll try again then.

I've started playing dos2 which I never managed to get into. See how it goes this time.

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October 29th, 2020, 11:11
I wasn't going to mess with the EA, but my curiosity got the best of me, and I wanted more 5E after playing the Solasta EA. I played a few hours last night. Got the first 3 companions, and I'm about to enter some old crypt or temple.

The visuals and presentation are excellent. Music so far is good too. Some of the background ambient sounds are super familiar though. There's a piece of bird song that I could swear was ripped from Gothic.

After playing Solasta, this feels mainstream by comparison. Nothing too egregious, but there are some things I don't like. For example, not having ammo for ranged weapons. I'm guessing they just wanted to cut back on how much players would need to micromanage, but every ranged weapon magically creating an unlimited supply of ammo doesn't sit well with me in a D&D game. The rest/camp system seems kind of simple to me as well, but that's to be expected.

I like the opening sequence on the nautaloid ship. I was reminded of Jon Irenicus's dungeon in some ways. Waking up in a strange place with a lot weirdness going on and cool things to see.

Companions are a mixed bag. I like the half-elf cleric, but I can't stand the elven rogue. Not sure about the wizard yet.

I don't quite get the turn system they're using. Everyone rolls for initiative at the start of combat, but some characters are grouped together?
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October 29th, 2020, 16:12
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I don't quite get the turn system they're using. Everyone rolls for initiative at the start of combat, but some characters are grouped together?
If your characters have a turn after each other, you can choose in which order you play them. Otherwise, you'll need to respect the initiative roll sequence. It's a bit confusing with ending turn because you'll end turn for multiple characters when they are played together. I expect that this will be fixed.

I agree that the camping sucks big time. I hope they'll get inspiration from Solasta to improve it.
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October 29th, 2020, 23:45
Just had Gale die on me for the first time. That was both annoying and hilarious at the same time.
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November 6th, 2020, 18:46
Some of the consequences for certain choices should be more obvious imo. Not saying they should be totally transparent, but at least make it a little more obvious if something is going to lead to combat.

For example…

Spoiler
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November 6th, 2020, 20:58
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Some of the consequences for certain choices should be more obvious imo. Not saying they should be totally transparent, but at least make it a little more obvious if something is going to lead to combat.

For example…

Spoiler
There's 20 quicksaves for a reason. Just keep quicksaving

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November 6th, 2020, 22:12
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
There's 20 quicksaves for a reason. Just keep quicksaving

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Lesson learned, but still…
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November 7th, 2020, 00:30
Yea there were some unexpected reactions to certain things. I suppose as a stranger some might not take it well if one got aggressive. I was thrown off a couple of times with a response even when I got the roll. On the other hand I mostly enjoyed the thrill of the whole experience.

Rather biased though as I really fell for this game and have three play throughs on it already … and was still finding all kinds of new things, new quests, new ways of doing things. I was never as complete as I thought I was

Stopped for now though as I did what I wanted to and don't want to overdue.
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November 7th, 2020, 02:17
Is the EA just the one map right now? I still have parts to uncover, but I'm debating if I want to keep playing at this point or wait for the full release.
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November 8th, 2020, 14:57
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Is the EA just the one map right now? I still have parts to uncover, but I'm debating if I want to keep playing at this point or wait for the full release.
Just the one map (not counting associated places with connected maps like the Underdark) and a level cap at 4.
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