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Default Disco Elysium - Moving RPGs to the Next Level?

April 19th, 2018, 21:31
Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
If the focus is the stats and combat over the other aspects of the game then it's an RPG.
Well, what do you know? That's what I define as an ARPG. For me RPG focuses on story and character building.
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April 19th, 2018, 21:32
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
Being registered as a RPG is what makes it a RPG is an approach that has merit for those who stick to it.

This is not the case or the product in this thread would be considered a RPG.

The result of institutionalized double standard, people do not even notice.
Being registered as an rpg? Where is it "registered"? If you mean marketed as an rpg, that's very arbitrary. I don't think you're discussing this honestly at all. You've moved the goalposts twice now. I think I'll just stop discussing it with you.
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April 20th, 2018, 03:54
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
Well, what do you know? That's what I define as an ARPG. For me RPG focuses on story and character building.
I said combat and stats, I didn't say action. Basically Wizardry is an RPG, focus on combat and the results of the actions are based on the stats (by stats I imply character building).
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April 20th, 2018, 07:07
I don't have a problem with the fact that we think differently about what RPG is. I was simply musing.
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April 26th, 2018, 13:11
Originally Posted by Mustawd View Post
You're implying as if that encompasses all PnP players. Of course it does not. Those same players probably despise one-shot dungeon crawls as well.

Regardless, we're talking crpgs here. They're different animals in many ways. Similar in many ways too. But in PnP you control one character. In crpgs there is a long history of games where you control the entire party. There's natural divergence based on how they evolved.
But in the quote I replied to it was sounding as if there was only ONE sort of C-RPG eligible for being defined by the expression "roile-playing games" : One that involves combat, and nothing but that.

That's how it sounded to me.

And because of that, it sounded to me as if games WITHOUT combat are - according to that definition - are NOT "role-playing games".

And that was to me as if anything that does not incorporate combat or at least some sort of conflict just is not "playing a role".
To put it more cynically, accortding to that, only a warrior character, a trooper character or any fighting character is "playing a role" - and every other kind of character is not.

And a Bard would only then be a character for "playing a role" as long as he or she is contributing to combat.




Besides, I often have the feeling as if "role" (job, business) and "role" (theatre) are mixed.
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April 26th, 2018, 18:52
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
But in the quote I replied to it was sounding as if there was only ONE sort of C-RPG eligible for being defined by the expression "roile-playing games" : One that involves combat, and nothing but that.

That's how it sounded to me.
My preference is combat heavy games, but I don't mind story or C&C. If done well, in conjunction with great combat, then you have a truly outstanding game.

But even games that are light on combat are still crpgs IMO.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
And because of that, it sounded to me as if games WITHOUT combat are - according to that definition - are NOT "role-playing games".
Well, now I'm the confused one. To answer you, Yes. Games without combat are not cRPGs. Many games and genres are increasingly adding RPG-like elements.

Now do I dislike the devs of Disco Elysium or the game? No. I actually think the game looks beautiful and the narrative resolution of conflict makes this adventure game interesting.

My problem with them calling this an rpg, as well as we as a broader community accepting that definition, is that it dilutes what a crpg is in a way that no other game has before it. Sure, action rpgs have blurred the lines ever since Diablo 1, as player reaction became the biggest component instead of the system's stats and abilities.

However, combat was always a mainstay, regardless if it was executed by action or by being turn based. Let's not forget, the earliest cRPGs were almost exclusively combat. With each member in the party playing its own role in order to defeat enemies.

What DE has done is to say that the resolution of conflict is no longer tied to combat. Which is a huge leap. It opens the doors for almost any game with stats to now be considered a cRPG. Hence, my point with the discussion with sports games. They have every element of Disco Eleysium, including non-combat conflict resolution.

The other poster's argument about jobs vs roles is merely semantics. With a full story mode, cutscenes, C&C, stats, and non-combat conflict resolution, Madden is just as much an RPG as Disco Elysium is.

IF of course you buy into DE being an RPG. Which I do not. And since they've decided to market themselves as that, it's my opinion that the genre is best served if this game doe snot succeed commercially. That's just my opinion. There's no malice or edginess here.
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