Wasteland 2 - Life Beyond Release

duder113 said:

much better than inquisition and I find it even better than divinity.

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Better than Divinity?
That'll be hard, although the year gave birth to many great games with different approach, so far none of them managed to dethrone D:OS in my case.
Some do have better graphics than D:OS (Risen 3, DA3), some more and better humor (The Stick of Truth), some excel in music (revamped two jRPGs), etc. But as a complete product D:OS pwns them all.

Archangel said:

but it is sure as hell better that crappy new RPGs like DAI or Mass Effect 2/3.

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Careful there.
DA3 is not crappy, it's consolecrappy. If EA decides to go CDprojekt route and funds an enhanced version (in this case read: if EA makes the PC version instead of "PC version"), and if Bioware return it to it's roots (read: no endless respawns in Bioware games), it'll be gold. Still couldn't touch D:OS as inventory system would remain one of the worst inventory systems I've seen in my life.

Also, I'd lie if I said ME2/3 were crap to me. EA's business behind NE2/ME3 DLC was the biggest scam that happened in games industry after Star Trek Online boxes scandal (turning a videogame into gambling by Perfect World Entertainment), but those games as games that should provide fun and not grinding aren't crap.

joxer said:

Better than Divinity?
That'll be hard, although the year gave birth to many great games with different approach, so far none of them managed to dethrone D:OS in my case.
Some do have better graphics than D:OS (Risen 3, DA3), some more and better humor (The Stick of Truth), some excel in music (revamped two jRPGs), etc. But as a complete product D:OS pwns them all.

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I'm having more fun with WL2 than I had with D:OS. So for me it is the better game.
This heavily depends though on how important different features are for the user.

As I've said elsewhere for me immersion is very important. That's one of D:OS weak points which makes playing it less fun for me.

When WL2 was on sale during the recent Steam sale it was priced somewhat more appropriately at a price that an indie game that was 100% community funded should be at. It's a good game but I think it's overpriced for what it is and where it came from - when you consider the game was 100% funded by kickstarter. inXile has gained millions out of this (as have other recent devs with the same "business model").

I like that the Divinity/SRR/WL2 and soon to be Pillars games are able to get made but I still contest that when these games are 100% funded by players via kickstarter that it's a bit weak of the devs involved to charge the prices they're charging for the game when every sale is 100% profit.

These games could easily be sold at half of what they're going for and likely sell more copies and either way would still be insanely profitable since ALL sales are 100% profit for the devs and have yielded multiple millions beyond the dev costs that they didn't even cover themselves to begin with.

It's not really surprising that despite 20m+ in profits selling a community funded game that WL2 is apparently "done" and the once discussed perk system to spice up the lackluster combat and character development apparently isn't gonna happen and bug fix patches are all the game will ever get.

Voqar said:

When WL2 was on sale during the recent Steam sale it was priced somewhat more appropriately at a price that an indie game that was 100% community funded should be at. It's a good game but I think it's overpriced for what it is and where it came from - when you consider the game was 100% funded by kickstarter. inXile has gained millions out of this (as have other recent devs with the same "business model").

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If it is selling reasonably well then it is not overpriced. Capitalism: get used to it.

joxer said:

Careful there.
DA3 is not crappy, it's consolecrappy. If EA decides to go CDprojekt route and funds an enhanced version (in this case read: if EA makes the PC version instead of "PC version"), and if Bioware return it to it's roots (read: no endless respawns in Bioware games), it'll be gold. Still couldn't touch D:OS as inventory system would remain one of the worst inventory systems I've seen in my life.

Also, I'd lie if I said ME2/3 were crap to me. EA's business behind NE2/ME3 DLC was the biggest scam that happened in games industry after Star Trek Online boxes scandal (turning a videogame into gambling by Perfect World Entertainment), but those games as games that should provide fun and not grinding aren't crap.

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What is there to be careful about? More than one person said that DA3 is like a SP SWTOR. I tried SWTOR, it was beyond bad. So DA3 also deserves a crappy score.

As for ME2/3, well they might be a fun game but they sure as hell were not a real RPG. A shooter with some RPG elements? Yes.
And no grinding? Did you play ME2 at all with the planet scanning thing?! OMG, that was 2x worse than MAKO minigame from ME1, at least I could get my indestructible MAKO to do crazy jumps to kill time while I got to the next point of interest. There was nothing to make ME2 minigame bearable.
I don't even remember what ME3 had (probably tried to block it from my mind), but I do remember you could not get best SP ending if you didn't also play the MP part. WTF?! What idiot considered that a good idea.
And the levels were beyond bad in linearity. All the boring fighting you needed to do just to get to next story part was as bad as any grinding to me.

Voqar said:

When WL2 was on sale during the recent Steam sale it was priced somewhat more appropriately at a price that an indie game that was 100% community funded should be at. It's a good game but I think it's overpriced for what it is and where it came from - when you consider the game was 100% funded by kickstarter.

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No. That a game was crowdfunded is not a reason for a lower price at release.

I don't think "it was crowdfunded so it should be X price" is ever solid logic, a lot of factors go into pricing decisions and thinking of it like "100% profit" is never correct, not when there's running costs and other investments. I think it's telling all us sprawling old-school RPGs are in the same range.

That said, it's not even true Wasteland 2 was 100% crowdfunded. It's closer to 50% crowdfunded, with the other 50% coming from our back catalog sales, Early Access sales and Brian Fargo's own personal monies. Not to mention the current continued support and team means we still have running development costs and will as long as we continue to support it.

Archangel said:

More than one person said that DA3 is like a SP SWTOR.

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Those people are liars and trolls.
DA3 has nothing in common with Star Wars MMO. Everything is completely different from that EA betrayed Kotor fans monstruosity.

It does have some elements similar to Mass Effect series, if someone told you that, it is true. Not once you'll think "had that in ME 1/2/3". Just an example, Claudia Black voiceover. You won't hear her in EA's bloody SW MMO anywhere.

Get it in your [favorite insult] head (and I'm sick of this argument) the game was NOT 100% funded by kickstart. Even if it was that would not be relevant but since it wasn't....
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This is a lame argument that effectively says others paid to ahve this project so I should get it for [pick your favorite phrase].
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I actually don't think they made that much on wasteland 2; I suspect D:OS made a lot more but it was only (approx) 20% funded by kickstart.

Voqar said:

When WL2 was on sale during the recent Steam sale it was priced somewhat more appropriately at a price that an indie game that was 100% community funded should be at. It's a good game but I think it's overpriced for what it is and where it came from - when you consider the game was 100% funded by kickstarter. inXile has gained millions out of this (as have other recent devs with the same "business model").

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I finished my first play through of WL 2 on Sunday and had no crashes and other than 1 safe I couldn't open no bugs I can remember. It was for me about 60 h of play time and the story and fun factor put it at the top of my favorite games list. Combat was fun but one thing that would have been nice was the ability to have a party formation like baulders gate style so the melee guys start out front. I would very much recomend this to any one who likes this style of game.

I have to agree that the attitude that because it it crowd funded it should be free/cheep for all is beyond bizzar that is like the idea that because EA made a billion dollars last year their next Dragon Age should be free for all.

So, hopefully sometime next year I'll finally received my signed CE of Wasteland 2?
At least it should be well patched by then.

joxer said:

Those people are liars and trolls.
DA3 has nothing in common with Star Wars MMO. Everything is completely different from that EA betrayed Kotor fans monstruosity.

It does have some elements similar to Mass Effect series, if someone told you that, it is true. Not once you'll think "had that in ME 1/2/3". Just an example, Claudia Black voiceover. You won't hear her in EA's bloody SW MMO anywhere.

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So you are calling Total Biscuit a liar and a troll?! And you are calling my own eyes which I used to watch stream of DAI liars?

What does voice over have to do with this?! I am talking about quest design and gameplay elements as well as combat.

Yes absolutely. If Total Biscuit said DA3 is Star Wars dreckgame clone, he's a liar. And troll.
And you too.

What gameplay elements? Consolegamepad oriented combat with horrible to use tactics view? Oh, yea, either TOR is console MMO or has tactics view I've never heard of before.

But quest design is totally copied from Mass Effect. Directly. Completely. Not from any MMO.
Codex too where they added only pics.
If you're talking about so called collections, well, maybe those do exist in the holy EA MMO, I admit. I don't know about that part.

Just keep watching streams instead of playing the game. It's a great way to know how the game really does play. Oh and don't miss soloing streams through the game with Knight Enchanter or Assassin Archer - a proof it's really your favorite MMO 100% as you don't lead a party in it!

No, he said it is like playing a SP MMO. Comparing it with SWTOR was easiest as both games are from Bioware.

More like MMO like combat and respawning enemies together with lots of gather X stuff or kill Y enemies. And these side quests are gained from papers and books lol

Lack of tactics camera in SWTOR means nothing, it is a shame on Bioware that it exists like this in DAI anyways.

Watching streams just confirmed me what I already read or heard about. And I cannot even watch it now, I want to puke each time I see this shitty game on my screen.

Re: crowdfunding and price - I agree that should make no difference. And if you want to get these games cheap, back them! That is a big advantage of kick-starter, and really the whole point of it. I got Wasteland 2 for a cheap price, in combo with Tides of Numenera, for less than $25 each in a good deal.

If you wait to buy them when they are in retail, of course they are going to charge as much as possible.

Vindicator said:

So, hopefully sometime next year I'll finally received my signed CE of Wasteland 2?
At least it should be well patched by then.

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damn! im sorry to hear that Vindicator, thats pretty lame. You were pretty fired up about this one

xSamhainx said:

damn! im sorry to hear that Vindicator, thats pretty lame. You were pretty fired up about this one

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Yeah, but it's nothing new... I'm still waiting on my boxed collector's editions of Moebius and Tesla Effect, which had their digital release last April and May. These experiences have really soured me on Kickstarter.

Vindicator said:

Yeah, but it's nothing new… I'm still waiting on my boxed collector's editions of Moebius and Tesla Effect, which had their digital release last April and May. These experiences have really soured me on Kickstarter.

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Agreed, it sure creates a lot of bad incentives. I've stopped contributing to any Kickstarter or Early Access game as well. Now it's show me the money.

Vindicator said:

So, hopefully sometime next year I'll finally received my signed CE of Wasteland 2?
At least it should be well patched by then.

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Don't feel bad I havent got mine yet either....not a huge deal to me though as I have a huge backlog of games anyway and not enough free time.

Vindicator said:

Yeah, but it's nothing new… I'm still waiting on my boxed collector's editions of Moebius and Tesla Effect, which had their digital release last April and May. These experiences have really soured me on Kickstarter.

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I think the common thread here is Physical delivery. Many of the KS I have backed have misunderstood what it would take to deliver the physical goods. They are software developers not manufacturers and my impression is most have little or no clue what it will take to get the physical goods in to the hands of their customers, and as the result mess up the physical delivery side of their KS pledges big time. The one and only KS I pledged for physical stuff I am still waiting for after an August launch of the game, all the digital KS that I backed that have been released I have gotten. So while the idea of physical goodies may sound neat remember these are software developers not manufactures so while they know how to make a great game(we hope) it is just about guaranteed they have no clue how to make a physical product, or even what one will cost to be made. So I think they screw themselves in most cases when charging for a physical product at what basically is a cottage industry level of production.

Many of the issues Swen Vincke at Larian Studios discussed in relation to the release of D-OS had to do with the handling of the physical goods and customer addresses and shipping and how much extra stress it added. My thoughts for future KS stick to the digital game and avoid any thing physical like the plague.