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March 26th, 2018, 17:47
I'm curious, why do people feel the need to express passive aggressive tendencies toward one another? Can't we stick to discussing games without getting personal? Let's focus on logically responding rather than emotionally responding.

I like CDPR, much more than most AAA companies out there. However, I've heard my fair share of what goes on behind the scenes, too (such as how they treat their employees).

No singular company is perfect. Public perception is generally positive, which is nice for a change when you look at how much negative press and and discussion circulates on a daily basis. But we have to keep ourselves grounded here.

It's easy to make a statement and generate positive reception. They've acquired very loyal customers in the past few years. However, they're still a company out there to make money, and are just as capable of screwing up as anyone else.

Right now, CDPR has my sword. That may change in the near future, or it may not. Who knows. I hope it stays that way, though.
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March 26th, 2018, 17:54
Originally Posted by Silver View Post
Kiciński confirmed that the game would not have any multiplayer at launch, stating “first of all we’re going to deliver players a huge, story-driven role-playing game for a single player,”
I'm more than fine with this.
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March 26th, 2018, 21:24
Originally Posted by BoboTheMighty View Post
MP could be a ton of fun in this game. Like a time mission, Ocean 11 style, where you have to team up with people with wide variety of skills to break in the "vault".
Or side activities, like Cops chasing criminals or Medtechie being part of Trauma team.
On the flipside, they played a trick during that last presentation that could be confirmation on E3:
Team up with people to do something ..

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March 27th, 2018, 13:13
Originally Posted by BoboTheMighty View Post
Financially/"Hype wise", postponing MP and focusing more on Single Player at launch is actually a bad thing.. gaming forums really are detached from reality when it comes to discussing things like this…
Multiplayer games sell much better and are more popular, overall ( especially with younger gamers), than pure SP, despite very vocal minority always complaining about it.
No. This studio do themselves a service by postponing MU.

MU is no panacea, it is not a miracle recipe that ensures big sales.
This studio boasted they are committed to SP. They now are about to release a product that shows they are not committed. They prefer to ensure a larger market by offering a mix bag experience that will be poor SP and poor MU.

Postponing the features allows them to bank on their reputation as a dev dedicated to SP and advertize the incoming product as SP. Obviously, the MU side is planned, budgeted and will be amortized by sales coming from SP hype.

They are even able to depict the release of the MU update as a free enhancement, a gift to their community when it is funded by SP sales.

Already, their army of stalwarts have jumped through the doorway to sell the product as expected: a fully dedicated SP product. This is made easier by the dissociation of MU SP and the postponing.

There is nothing like pure SP or pass purity laws to purge and stop mongrelization.
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March 27th, 2018, 19:24
MU is no panacea, it is not a miracle recipe that ensures big sales.
But it is a large contributing factor, evidenced by research and actual sales and profit gained by it. Stating you're focusing on SP first while going for mainstream success does not help them here.
This studio boasted they are committed to SP. They now are about to release a product that shows they are not committed.
Nonsensical "reasoning". In Witcher series, online component would absolutely make no sense. Cyberpunk from day one was designed for co-op gameplay and CDPR is staying true to it's "roots".
They prefer to ensure a larger market by offering a mix bag experience that will be poor SP and poor MU
Now, now…no openly trolling, Chien. It's more interesting to read your fictional theories backed by fictional "arguments.
Obviously, the MU side is planned, budgeted and will be amortized by sales coming from SP hype.
How willl the "poor SP" help, coming Multiplayer? You're contradicting yourself here.
They are even able to depict the release of the MU update as a free enhancement, a gift to their community when it is funded by SP sales.
And? Strong SP with added optional MP ( more oriented on gameplay than narrative), not funded by scams/microtransactions is a very good thing here.
Already, their army of stalwarts have jumped through the doorway to sell the product as expected: a fully dedicated SP product. This is made easier by the dissociation of MU SP and the postponing.
There is nothing like pure SP or pass purity laws to purge and stop mongrelization.
I've no idea honestly what you are babbling here.
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March 27th, 2018, 19:58
Originally Posted by BoboTheMighty View Post
I've no idea honestly what you are babbling here.
For me, that statement applies to nearly everything he's ever posted here.
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March 27th, 2018, 20:16
Originally Posted by Arkadia7 View Post
Multiplayer is ruining rpgs and gaming in general, that is why people are so sensitive about it. The large AAA companies, in their greed, are designing their games to be multiplayer focused, and trying to squeeze out as many microtransactions from the players as possible, without offending players too much, or making them feel like they are being scammed.

That is why its such a breath of fresh air to see one of those AAA companies, like CDPR, buck the trend, and say No!, we still know what the gaming fan really wants. We still are going to make a ton of money - millions, in fact - from our games, but still have integrity while we do it.

And I'm just stating the obvious here, but sometimes, the obvious needs to be said.
What do the gaming fans want? I'm not so sure - a lot of them wants multiplayer features in games. It's not very popular here, but we, even if we add other RPG sites like the codex, are only a tiny, tiny fraction of players, and not necessarily very representative.

Doesn't mean that we have to like it, of course.

BTW: I think we should distinguish between MMO's and small scale cooperative MP. The former are far more "destructive" than the latter.

pibbur who thinks there are more than enough MMO's and perhaps too few pure SP's, and who likes playing both of them.

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March 27th, 2018, 20:18
Obviously he is saying that:
- CDPR marketing team has done a great job on marketing it as a pure single player experience
- there is no way of knowing the above is true. think he is arguing for an official stamp "pure SP experience, not polluted by any MP ideas whatsoever" on the box, given out by an official independent organization

You're welcome
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March 27th, 2018, 21:23
Thanks Bobo, I started typing in reply to Chiens text but gave up when I felt there was simply too much to disagree with.

Have to love his final line though.
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March 28th, 2018, 13:32
Originally Posted by BoboTheMighty View Post
But it is a large contributing factor, evidenced by research and actual sales and profit gained by it. Stating you're focusing on SP first while going for mainstream success does not help them here.
No. They are not focusing on SP. SP is one element beside MU.
Nonsensical "reasoning". In Witcher series, online component would absolutely make no sense. Cyberpunk from day one was designed for co-op gameplay and CDPR is staying true to it's "roots".
Already answered to that. Anti chronological. PnP RPGs are MU by necessity. CRPGs can be SP.

Any adaptation of a PnP RPG is bound to be MU following this lack of reasoning.
Now, now…no openly trolling, Chien. It's more interesting to read your fictional theories backed by fictional "arguments.
Pointless to imagine anything: obvious observations are enough. The MU feature is planned from the start, it is included in the budget, meaning that resources are dedicated to it (and not to SP)
How willl the "poor SP" help, coming Multiplayer? You're contradicting yourself here.

And? Strong SP with added optional MP ( more oriented on gameplay than narrative), not funded by scams/microtransactions is a very good thing here.

I've no idea honestly what you are babbling here.
No surprise: after years on this board, the conclusion that people have no concern for gameplay is correct.

People interested in gameplay know that a SP based gameplay is not compatible with MU gameplay.

When designing a SP/MU product, devs exclude any feature that can exist in SP or MU and not both.
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March 28th, 2018, 13:43
Originally Posted by ilm View Post
Obviously he is saying that:
- CDPR marketing team has done a great job on marketing it as a pure single player experience
- there is no way of knowing the above is true. think he is arguing for an official stamp "pure SP experience, not polluted by any MP ideas whatsoever" on the box, given out by an official independent organization

You're welcome
There is nothing like pure SP.

And for the rest, no.

Once again, it is a simple observation.

The MU features are planned, and part of a budget. Therefore all of the budget was not allocated to the SP features.

The MU features are integral parts of a developpment cycle, they are funded by money and time that did not go to the SP features.

Any company doing a MU/SP product can claim they favour SP or MU or even both.

This does not change that the budget was not dedicated to the SP exclusively or the MU exclusively.
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March 28th, 2018, 14:24
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post

People interested in gameplay know that a SP based gameplay is not compatible with MU gameplay.
Now THIS I actually agree with to a large extent. And resources that go towards MP aspects will seldom if ever enrich the single player experience. That doesn't automatically mean you can't make a game that does both well though.
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March 28th, 2018, 17:50
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
Any company doing a MU/SP product can claim they favour SP or MU or even both.

This does not change that the budget was not dedicated to the SP exclusively or the MU exclusively.
This is actually correct.
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March 28th, 2018, 18:08
The thing about a RP game as they are doing is than it is something really story driven and heroe focused.
How do you share the glory with a lot of people, and how do you do to make sure than N00bK1ll3R does not spoil the quests and the progression of Tom-I-Like-to-Take-My-Time?

Anyone who has spent 5 minutes in a MMO can understand that. Story becomes a pure background noise no one cares about and everyone spend his time grinding. Do you want that when you are a company who can produce such a masterpiece like the Witcher 3?

So it is looks normal to me than they are taking their time to make it right. They never said they will not do it, just they wanted to take their time to achieve something great.

The arguments about SP not selling and MP selling a lot are a bit as comparing books and movies. Those two realms can share part of a same population but will also have people who never read or others who never go to see a movie.
Even if we know than movies are largely more popular, the book market is strong and big enough for many companies to strive with.
Not everyone wants to become a Ubisoft or a EA.
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March 28th, 2018, 20:33
No. They are not focusing on SP. SP is one element beside MU.
Incorrect, going by the actual statements and history of developers. If you have any actual information on this, please post this.
By this I'm talking about facts, not figments of imagination.
Already answered to that. Anti chronological. PnP RPGs are MU by necessity. CRPGs can be SP.
Any adaptation of a PnP RPG is bound to be MU following this lack of reasoning.
Again, a false statement. RPG can be designed as SP first and then added Multiplayer to complement it/integrated into the world without it becoming prerequisite.
And again, there are examples of this already done in the past: Baldurs Gate, NWN, Dark Souls, etc.
Pointless to imagine anything: obvious observations are enough. The MU feature is planned from the start, it is included in the budget, meaning that resources are dedicated to it (and not to SP)
Valid observations are based on verifiable facts. If you have any information that others are not aware of, please post them here. Otherwise, it is using fictional "arguments" ( more similar to theology than reasoning).
People interested in gameplay know that a SP based gameplay is not compatible with MU gameplay.
When designing a SP/MU product, devs exclude any feature that can exist in SP or MU and not both.
Incorrect again. There are a variety of multiplayer mods, besides PvP. Again post any information here based on your direct knowledge on what kind of MP they're working on and what exactly you know about it. Specifics.
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March 28th, 2018, 20:41
Originally Posted by TomRon View Post
Now THIS I actually agree with to a large extent. And resources that go towards MP aspects will seldom if ever enrich the single player experience. That doesn't automatically mean you can't make a game that does both well though.
That really isn't accurate. Besides campaign co-op or simply social invite, even PvP can be done in a way that makes SP missions far more enjoyable.
Perfect Dark where a player can assume role of a guard in set mission level. RE VI where you can take a control of infected in another person's campaign. Watch Dogs invasions make the world feel drastically more engaging and unpredictable. Several RDR modes. Etc, etc.
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March 28th, 2018, 21:11
Originally Posted by BoboTheMighty View Post
That really isn't accurate. Besides campaign co-op or simply social invite, even PvP can be done in a way that makes SP missions far more enjoyable.
Perfect Dark where a player can assume role of a guard in set mission level. RE VI where you can take a control of infected in another person's campaign. Watch Dogs invasions make the world feel drastically more engaging and unpredictable. Several RDR modes. Etc, etc.
But isn't that an argument about multiplayer elements being enjoyable to some, in themselves, rather than enhancing the actual single player experience?
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March 28th, 2018, 23:02
Originally Posted by BoboTheMighty View Post
That really isn't accurate. Besides campaign co-op or simply social invite, even PvP can be done in a way that makes SP missions far more enjoyable.
Perfect Dark where a player can assume role of a guard in set mission level. RE VI where you can take a control of infected in another person's campaign. Watch Dogs invasions make the world feel drastically more engaging and unpredictable. Several RDR modes. Etc, etc.
Those are all good examples of interesting MP mechanics. But how does it enrich my SP experience if I play offline? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with any of those features, but you're talking about how Multiplayer can add other things than classical PvP which I agree with, and I'll take your word for it when you say those features are enjoyable in those games since I haven't played them. It just wasn't what I was arguing against.

EDIT: Ripper got it right, could have just agreed with his post instead…

EDIT2: Thought some more about it and have to agree, there probably are MP mechanics that do make the "SP" experience more fun if done right, if by SP you refer more to what the base game is like than what it is in principle. Maybe I should say the offline experience instead?
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March 29th, 2018, 03:47
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
But isn't that an argument about multiplayer elements being enjoyable to some, in themselves, rather than enhancing the actual single player experience?
I'm not sure I understand your question…how can Multiplayer enhance Single player experience, if you are playing offline? That's obviously an oxymoron.

It becomes an issue if other players can invade your game ( without permission), run like idiots ruining your experience or if has PvP (like Battle Royale mode) that completely changes progression/loot system.

But for (originally) Co-op based Rpg with variety of roles( classes) that all play different part in world's systems from crime/network/economy/etc, they can implement a ton of new interesting features that would make the setting far more dynamic, complex, interactive. I would put aside some bias aside and see what they can come up with here.
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March 29th, 2018, 10:01
Originally Posted by BoboTheMighty View Post
I'm not sure I understand your question…how can Multiplayer enhance Single player experience, if you are playing offline? That's obviously an oxymoron.
I was thinking more along the lines of systems and mechanics,
where something mainly developed for the MP side of a game, say an arena system, could still enrich the SP (offline) experience by adding a new questline to become the Arena champion. (Corny example, but you get my point).

Just to be clear, I'm looking forward to what CDPR will come up with for this game, both SP and MP even if I'm always more sceptical of the latter. They would have to mess up severely to stop me from buying this game.
Last edited by TomRon; March 29th, 2018 at 10:35.
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