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November 18th, 2021, 13:16
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
That's how it is for code monkeys indeed. They should work on doing mobile apps, or maybe apply to Facebook or Twitch. I hear they pay well.

If you don't work for the greatness of what you are doing, with passion and conviction, and you're just looking at the clock so that it's 5 and you can finally shut off the computer and be done with it for the day stay off my movies, books and games though, thanks.
There's not only black and white.
For game development you need both simple code monkeys and creative people with a vision. And also some more in between.
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November 18th, 2021, 14:04
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
In general, a studio asking people how they want their games to be is so sad. For one, people have no clue how they want games to be. Some think they do, but they really don't.

And the most important point, when you ask people how they want your game to be, that's essentially saying "We're not good enough to figure it out, please tell us what makes you happy". Sure, because it's that easy, right? Damn, how has nobody ever figured it out already! I imagine now Leonardo DaVinci making polls through Italy "What do you want my next project to be? Please be detailed, I want to sell it for a lot, and make waves through history with it". Just ask random people who don't have an ounce of your talent, and poll them together so even if there was somebody with actual talent, or an actual vision, you won't be able to tell them apart. With all that feedback, the instant cash shower is guaranteed!

Except it's not.

The only thing it does is show a complete and utter lack of both self-respect and creative vision. If you want me to buy your game, make it your own, bring something that you think is great, and let me be the judge of it. I have no time for talentless code monkeys that will type down some C# the way they're told to and call it a game.

This is why BG3 won't be nearly as good as it could have been (EA "feedback", public exposure and whatnot) and why I'm very much not looking forward to whatever Tactical Adventures brings forth at this point. Sure, make a game based on what Average Joes want. Make a game based on what RPGWatchers want, too! I'll be sure to never look at it as it scores something between 6 and 7.5 by fans and goes down through history as something unremarkable to be quickly forgotten because at best, it will be fanservice crap with no meaning or essence.
I know exactly how I want a game to be. BATTLE BROTHERS
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November 18th, 2021, 14:08
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I'd love to see what these guys could do with the full licence. My biggest issue with the SRD is that a lot of the more interesting D&D races aren't included.
Also, some of the more interesting creatures. I don't think they can use Mind Flayers, Gnolls, Bulletes, and Shambling Mounds. To name just a few.
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November 18th, 2021, 14:16
Originally Posted by Hastar View Post
Also, some of the more interesting creatures. I don't think they can use Mind Flayers, Gnolls, Bulletes, and Shambling Mounds. To name just a few.
Yeah, that's what I meant. I should have said monsters rather than races. They also can't use Beholders, Umber Hulks, Kua-toa, Yuan-Ti, or the Gith races. There's probably a bunch more.
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November 18th, 2021, 20:07
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
If you're struggling to be recognized, then you're not talented. It's okay, some people are tall, others are beautiful, and others are intelligent. Code monkeys should write mobile apps as told to, or copy Paizo books into a videogame.

Leave the creative bits for those who have it.
I'm sorry this is just a bad take in general….many talented people never get noticed.
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November 18th, 2021, 20:38
Originally Posted by rune_74 View Post
I'm sorry this is just a bad take in general‚€¶.many talented people never get noticed.
I am fine with you thinking that.

What I think is that's what untalented people want to believe, because well, everyone has a great opinion of themselves and those they sympathise with. There must be some explanation to one's lack of success, anything but "I'm just not good enough".
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November 18th, 2021, 20:43
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
I am fine with you thinking that.

What I think is that's what untalented people want to believe, because well, everyone has a great opinion of themselves and those they sympathise with. There must be some explanation to one's lack of success, anything but "I'm just not good enough".
Sure you go with that, why of course you know better then everyone else.
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November 18th, 2021, 20:46
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
I am fine with you thinking that.

What I think is that's what untalented people want to believe, because well, everyone has a great opinion of themselves and those they sympathise with. There must be some explanation to one's lack of success, anything but "I'm just not good enough".
You need to take some Psychology and Sociology classes if you think everyone has a great opinion of themselves.

Sorry for the off-topic
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November 18th, 2021, 20:54
Originally Posted by rune_74 View Post
Sure you go with that, why of course you know better then everyone else.
Ahm… thanks!

I don't do simps tho, I'm sure there are other users in these boards that would accommodate followers like you.
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November 18th, 2021, 20:55
Originally Posted by Hastar View Post
You need to take some Psychology and Sociology classes if you think everyone has a great opinion of themselves.

Sorry for the off-topic
Nice one. Of course, you didn't understand what I meant and needed to make this asinine comment which by the way is not only off-topic, but also quite distasteful.
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November 18th, 2021, 23:01
I think talk of "code monkeys" and "simps" is a bit unnecessary. Let's get back on topic, please, so this thread doesn't have to go in the deep freeze.
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November 18th, 2021, 23:35
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
I think talk of "code monkeys" and "simps" is a bit unnecessary. Let's get back on topic, please, so this thread doesn't have to go in the deep freeze.
I generally agree with the sentiment that asking your audience at that high a level what your creative content should be isn't a good sign. The best entertainment products comes from inspired artists, not from user polls.

Polls that ask "turn based option or not", "ideal party size', etc. would make sense.

Polls that ask "horror game or high fantasy game" do give off a bush league vibe IMHO.

With all that being said I just bought Solasta the other day at full price because I really wanted to play it and couldn't wait for a sale. So I've voted with my wallet!
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November 18th, 2021, 23:38
Originally Posted by bizorker View Post
I generally agree with the sentiment that asking your audience at that high a level what your creative content should be isn't a good sign. The best entertainment products comes from inspired artists, not from user polls.

Polls that ask "turn based option or not", "ideal party size', etc. would make sense.

Polls that ask "horror game or high fantasy game" do give off a bush league vibe IMHO.

With all that being said I just bought Solasta the other day at full price because I really wanted to play it and couldn't wait for a sale. So I've voted with my wallet!
Yes, that's fine. No problem with criticism of the survey. I just think the thread has taken a bit of a turn, so let's try to bring it down a bit, and stay on track.
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November 19th, 2021, 00:03
Interesting to be called out for using harmless terms like "code monkey" while I see real insults thrown about every week without notice, but then again, fair enough. I'll make sure to type "untalented code writers that just follow orders and have no creative vein whatsoever". A bit longer, but Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V were invented for a reason.

So yeah, back on topic.

Shameful poll, lost interest on Tactical Adventures. Probably check their next game if there's nothing else to play around that time.
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November 19th, 2021, 09:55
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
I'll make sure to type "untalented code writers that just follow orders and have no creative vein whatsoever".
Why would you think coding doesn't require talent?
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November 19th, 2021, 10:33
Originally Posted by purpleblob1 View Post
I don't know - from your post above, it sounds like you know what you want but aren't you a gamer yourself?

I think the survey posted by TA consists of pretty simple set of questions - I'd assume most of gamers know their preferences at that level.
How would "what I want" be answered by a survey, though? Would they read the wall of text I posted, and even if they did, even I can basically only glean from it that I like good games. Like Tetris, and Baldur's Gate 2. Nowhere did I say I knew what kind of game I want to be developed next - I like turn based games but some of my favorites have been non turn-based. I like games based on tabletop RPG rulesets, I suppose that's tangible advise that they've already done with Solasta in the first place.

What are they going to glean from that? Let's say that every gamer who responds says that gameplay is more important than story to them. OK, so…? Does that mean they ignore the story? Apply less resources to the story?

Just seems odd, I'm curious how any creative designer would even use that data. Also, like I said; sometimes asking the people you're designing art for what they want turns you into those people who used to do art specifically for the rich (wealthy patrons) or people who did art because they were forced to. Who hasn't seen a game ruined by "community input" when the devs just should have stuck to their vision? Hell, who hasn't seen a TV show even fall to the same?

Can you imagine taking a survey about a movie you just saw, and how a director would put that information to use?

"Hi there, do you think that camerawork or story are more important in a movie?"

It's… not how good art works, and I consider good games to be in that category.
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November 19th, 2021, 10:52
I think any job has room for talent to be expressed, and decisions to be made, it just takes a different form. The complexity varies with the job, of course. Seeing only the artistic part as worthwhile seems very limited.

Anyway, to get back on topic and avoid further people from being insulted, I think Tactical Adventures have nothing to prove regarding creativity and making the best of their resource to produce a game. So I see no reason to worry simply because they do a poll. Owlcat Games have nothing to prove either, they have a good vision of what they do, and as we've already discussed in another thread, they don't just copy the APs but adapt them quite a lot. If you remember, they do polls as well.

I'm not too worried if TA doesn't get the D&D full licence, they've shown they could turn around the limitations and come up with solutions of their own. But of course I would understand if players wanted to have the real deal, it's always nicer.

It still remains the only D&D 5E SP game, I hope they keep that no matter what.
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November 19th, 2021, 11:08
Originally Posted by FurtiveNyctophile View Post
What are they going to glean from that? Let's say that every gamer who responds says that gameplay is more important than story to them. OK, so‚€¶? Does that mean they ignore the story? Apply less resources to the story?

Just seems odd, I'm curious how any creative designer would even use that data. Also, like I said; sometimes asking the people you're designing art for what they want turns you into those people who used to do art specifically for the rich (wealthy patrons) or people who did art because they were forced to. Who hasn't seen a game ruined by "community input" when the devs just should have stuck to their vision? Hell, who hasn't seen a TV show even fall to the same?
Well, you're asking what they'd do in an improbable situation, they won't get that result from the poll. Taking extreme cases breaks any methodology.

If the results indicate that story is low in comparison of gameplay, and if they're sensible, they will compare what they've done on their own to the stats and see if they decide to adjust the amount of effort on gameplay vs story.

I don't think the data is for the creative designer but for the game director, except for the setting and tone questions which just give a very general idea for the setting. In their first game they estimated from other games what could be a success, and now they're adjusting their aim. The creativity is expressed in the story, in the graphics, the audio, the models and their animation, the UI and other features, it needn't be turned down. It's just the proportions that are tuned.

That's how I see it anyway, I may be wrong.
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November 19th, 2021, 11:24
Please create a new thread if you want to discuss the talents of coders, artists, geniuses, etc. Keep the discussion here to Solasta and their survey.
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November 19th, 2021, 11:40
Solasta was mediocre to start with, and you can see they're struggling to find inspiration or guidance.

Asking random people will surely improve the situation.


Originally Posted by Morrandir View Post
Why would you think coding doesn't require talent?
I can't answer because Ripper will delete the post again, even though you asked in this thread and your post is up. But spoilers, I think coding requires as much talent as writing. Anyone can do it, just a few can do it properly.
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