Dragon Age 2 - News Roundup #6

I am about 1/3 of the way through. For my own personal taste I had given DAO a 9.5 (for comparison BG series is a 10 and I have yet to play a game that will dethrone it for me).

DA2 has been hard for me. Trying to ignore how much I hated all the marketing and PR crap from EA around this game and trying to just look at the game itself, I am finding it entertaining and good but not great.

At this point I am giving it a 7.5 as somewhat of a random average of various components. Maybe that will change when I finish, since when I tried the demo I would have given it around a 5-6 and it has gone up since then. So could go down later.

Graphics: 8
Story (so far): 9
Characters: 8
Content (dungeons, quests, level design, etc.): 5
GUI: 6
Combat: 7
Game Mechanics (stats, skills, equipment, etc.): 6
Fun Factor (subjective aspect of how much I look forward to playing and overall enjoyment): 7-8
 
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maybe if biowear continues to make bad games, it will create more pirates to the glorious cause of pirate bay. oh and if they continue to keep lying and putting in draconian measures to make sure players aren't pirating their games.
 
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SAGO said:
maybe if biowear continues to make bad games, it will create more pirates to the glorious cause of pirate bay. oh and if they continue to keep lying and putting in draconian measures to make sure players aren't pirating their games.
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Yes. Piracy is definitely the answer. I love ever more restrictive and busted DRM, necessitated by selfish h4x0r lackwits.
 
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I don't pirate.
I just outright refuse to buy, which is even better. ;)
 
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I love the whole "your game sucks so bad I pirated it and played it for 50 hours" mindset.

Tools.
 
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DoctorNarrative said:
I love the whole "your game sucks so bad I pirated it and played it for 50 hours" mindset.

Tools.
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I agree. If someone has the opinion that it's such a bad game, why even play it? I didn't think that DA2 looked like a very good game, so I did not buy it. If I decided to pirate it and play it to completion, then the game obviously provided value and should have been purchased.
 
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People can like the game fine, without wanting to support what it's doing and what it stands for in terms of the future of the industry, so that would be one reason to pirate that I could personally sympathise with.

Lots of games are entertaining without doing anything good for the industry. Even a game like Deus Ex 2 was reasonably fun, but stood for all the things I hate about the industry. Supporting that was like saying you wanted to ruin the industry.

Yet, the paradox is that it can still be good, which is why blockbusters make so much money. They don't need to be great and they can be creatively corrupt at the same time as providing entertainment.

That's the real trick they're pulling off - and I'm amazed how many people can't see beyond the black and white mindset: "if you don't want it, don't get it". It's like with DLC - that, to me, is obviously a major reason we're not going to see many meaty expansions anymore. Are we entitled? No, we're not. But we don't have to support the existence of that which is ruining the industry - bit by bit. Not even passively supporting it.

Naturally, most people don't think like that - and they just take what they want if they can - but I can definitely see it as a rational reason to pirate.
 
DArtagnan said:
People can like the game fine, without wanting to support what it's doing and what it stands for in terms of the future of the industry, so that would be one reason to pirate that I could personally sympathise with.
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If games like Dragon Age 2 are so bad in your opinion that they will "ruin the industry" then you have no need to play them. Why would you want to if they are that bad? If they are not that bad and you are exaggerating then maybe you should pay up, because it ain't the end of the world.

In either case there's no justification to pirate.

And just for shits and giggles let me add that press and reaction are often times more important than sales. Dragon Age Origins sold extremely well but they still changed it extensively based on console gamer reactions. If the general reaction to DA2 is "too simplified," which seems to be the case, then they will revert back more toward Origins no matter how DA2 sells in comparison. Sales are one barometer of success but not the only one.
 
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If you don't like what a game stands for, I'm pretty sure there are better ways to make your feelings known.

Pirating a game just makes those devs/publishers not want to make a PC version at all, rather than giving them the message that you don't like their direction.
 
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DoctorNarrative said:
If games like Dragon Age 2 are so bad in your opinion that they will "ruin the industry" then you have no need to play them. Why would you want to if they are that bad? If they are not that bad and you are exaggerating then maybe you should pay up, because it ain't the end of the world.
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I'm not saying the game is bad, I'm saying the game is a bad direction for the industry as a whole.

Well, that's the theory - as I don't actually know whether it's a bad game. It strikes me as a decent enough game - but a total abandoning of the legacy the prequel created.

In either case there's no justification to pirate.
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In your opinion.

And just for shits and giggles let me add that press and reaction are often times more important than sales. Dragon Age Origins sold extremely well but they still changed it extensively based on console gamer reactions. If the general reaction to DA2 is "too simplified," which seems to be the case, then they will revert back more toward Origins no matter how DA2 sells in comparison. Sales are one barometer of success but not the only one.
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The two are pretty inseparable.

In any case, I'm not delusional enough to believe that pirating a game can make a difference, but I'm talking about supporting what you believe in - which, to me, is no less important.
 
JDR13 said:
If you don't like what a game stands for, I'm pretty sure there are better ways to make your feelings known.

Pirating a game just makes those devs/publishers not want to make a PC version at all, rather than giving them the message that you don't like their direction.
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Pirating a game or simply not buying it, is exactly the same in the eyes of the dev/publishers. They have no idea whether you play it or not, so it's a lost sale regardless.
 
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to justify piracy. I don't think such a thing is even possible - as it's completely subjective. It's like justifying murder or theft - as there are always cases where both are acceptable - at least to me.

I'm just saying that I can rationalise the act or the desire to pirate a game, in a case like this.

Whether others agree or not, is another matter entirely
 
DArtagnan said:
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to justify piracy. I don't think such a thing is even possible - as it's completely subjective. It's like justifying murder or theft - as there are always cases where both are acceptable - at least to me.

I'm just saying that I can rationalise the act or the desire to pirate a game, in a case like this.

Whether others agree or not, is another matter entirely
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Pirating a video game cannot possibly be compared to justified homicide, or some kind of theft-for-survival scenario (which I believe is what you're trying to do). On one hand, you're committing what would otherwise be seen as a crime in order to preserve your life, and on the other hand, you're stealing video games/software/music.

I understand that this may be the only way some people in developing countries can find employment, but the only reason it's a lucrative market is due to lazy parasites in industrialized nations who are able to "rationalize" what they're doing as harmless or kewl. If you're able to afford a broadband connection through which you engage in piracy, then you're not poor enough to use money as an excuse, either.

It affects developers and publishers, because they can see a correlation between slumping sales of games that traditionally have sold well and the rise of P2P sites, and it doesn't matter whether piracy is actually impacting those sales, because the perception that it does is already firmly embedded as industry dogma. So more games that would otherwise be incredible PC titles are being "streamlined" and "optimized" for consoles (a topic of some relevance today, it seems), in hopes of mitigating some of the damage being done by jerkwads selfish enough to steal games, and then stupid enough to piss and moan about how the industry hates them by consolizing everything, further reinforcing their bullshit rationalization for piracy.

I wouldn't give a damn about this at all if it were only the pirates who were being punished for their actions, but those of us who are responsible, mature adults, who have jobs and actually pay for what they enjoy are getting hosed as well. We're the ones who unfairly have to put up with - or avoid entirely - increasingly restrictive DRM policies, and a lessening of our privacy rights. We unfairly have to see PC titles watered down or developed solely for the consoles. All because some lazy, middle class dum-dum thinks he's somehow personally entitled to free stuff.

If anyone reading this is a software pirate, I hope your computer explodes, sending shards of burning hot metal, plastic, and glass into your eyes, and I pray to any god that will listen that you somehow lose the use of the thumb and forefinger on each of your hands.
 
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Captain Buzzkill said:
Pirating a video game cannot possibly be compared to justified homicide, or some kind of theft-for-survival scenario (which I believe is what you're trying to do). On one hand, you're committing what would otherwise be seen as a crime in order to preserve your life, and on the other hand, you're stealing video games/software/music.

I understand that this may be the only way some people in developing countries can find employment, but the only reason it's a lucrative market is due to lazy parasites in industrialized nations who are able to "rationalize" what they're doing as harmless or kewl. If you're able to afford a broadband connection through which you engage in piracy, then you're not poor enough to use money as an excuse, either.

It affects developers and publishers, because they can see a correlation between slumping sales of games that traditionally have sold well and the rise of P2P sites, and it doesn't matter whether piracy is actually impacting those sales, because the perception that it does is already firmly embedded as industry dogma. So more games that would otherwise be incredible PC titles are being "streamlined" and "optimized" for consoles (a topic of some relevance today, it seems), in hopes of mitigating some of the damage being done by jerkwads selfish enough to steal games, and then stupid enough to piss and moan about how the industry hates them by consolizing everything, further reinforcing their bullshit rationalization for piracy.

I wouldn't give a damn about this at all if it were only the pirates who were being punished for their actions, but those of us who are responsible, mature adults, who have jobs and actually pay for what they enjoy are getting hosed as well. We're the ones who unfairly have to put up with - or avoid entirely - increasingly restrictive DRM policies, and a lessening of our privacy rights. We unfairly have to see PC titles watered down or developed solely for the consoles. All because some lazy, middle class dum-dum thinks he's somehow personally entitled to free stuff.

If anyone reading this is a software pirate, I hope your computer explodes, sending shards of burning hot metal, plastic, and glass into your eyes, and I pray to any god that will listen that you somehow lose the use of the thumb and forefinger on each of your hands.
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I'd gladly debate this with you, if only you didn't seem so emotional about the whole thing.

Wishing all these bad things upon others, because you can't imagine anything but your own set of values - is simply not a position I think I can reach in a sound discussion.
 
DArtagnan said:
I'd gladly debate this with you, if only you didn't seem so emotional about the whole thing.

Wishing all these bad things upon others, because you can't imagine anything but your own set of values - is simply not a position I think I can reach in a sound discussion.
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Fair enough. I readily admit to having a fairly concrete view of the subject, and yes, I feel rather passionately about it. I believe however, that I can put my own personal prejudices aside if you want to talk about it. In particular, I'd like to address your assumption that I'm only seeing my values. What particular positive values are associated with piracy, software or otherwise? How does this kind of behavior benefit the industry, or our society in general?

*EDIT* As for my colorful wishes of horrible injury, I think that such a statement should be taken in context, and that it should be seen as an expression of frustration rather that a legitimate curse. The likelihood of such highly specific injuries actually happening due to a computer malfunction is so absurd that I had hoped the tongue in cheek nature would have been more obvious.
 
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DArtagnan said:
In any case, I'm not delusional enough to believe that pirating a game can make a difference, but I'm talking about supporting what you believe in - which, to me, is no less important.
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I just don't agree that anything less than exactly what I want is not worth supporting. I mean looking at it that way there would be about two dozen games worth paying for in the history of PC gaming, since they are exactly the games I want. Deus Ex, Baldur's Gate, Gothic 2... everything else I would pirate because it's good and fun, but not the direction I want games to go in.
 
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DoctorNarrative said:
I just don't agree that anything less than exactly what I want is not worth supporting. I mean looking at it that way there would be about two dozen games worth paying for in the history of PC gaming, since they are exactly the games I want. Deus Ex, Baldur's Gate, Gothic 2… everything else I would pirate because it's good and fun, but not the direction I want games to go in.
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Why must you think of this as an extreme?

I've bought more games from companies on trust than I care to remember. I bought Dragon Age and Mass Effect - as well as everything else from Bioware in the past.

What have they done with my support except to take their games further and further in the wrong direction?

I've cut them a lot of slack in that way, and I can most certainly sympathise with people who're not willing to put up with their DLC/online schemes - as well as wanting to avoid paying them to support their quest for the ultimate mainstream hit. Now, they're even able to remove your ability to play a legal version of the game - and almost get away with it.

Still, sometimes you have to actually try something to be certain whether it's worth buying or not. Going by the demo, the game is a travesty - but judging from comments here - it might not be so bad.

The same thing can be said of movies, except you're forced to pay for them on faith - if you want to see them in a theater.

The problem is that it's the system that's horrible and which doesn't support a tangible way to buy what's worth buying. Capitalism and how the market is shaped - and how games become hits is part of the system.

If I could, I'd give the money directly to the people developing the game, and not EA or Bioware suits. But the developers - as in those who're actually making the games - are not the ones getting rich. The publisher/developer system in its entirety is totally flawed and facilitates creative corruption on a very large and very sad scale.

That's the system I just don't feel right supporting, but if you think it works well - then by all means buy everything you want to try or play.

But if you truly believe that by paying for a game, you're doing "good" by making companies like EA ever more powerful - then forgive me if I don't agree with that.

The gaming industry, today, is a mostly greed-driven one - and they have the consumer by the throat with this ridiculous idea of buying before actually knowing what you're going to get. They have so many people openly and willingly supporting every effort to focus on wealth over creative achievement - that I lack the words to describe my confusion.

I guess it's the american way or something.
 
Captain Buzzkill said:
Fair enough. I readily admit to having a fairly concrete view of the subject, and yes, I feel rather passionately about it. I believe however, that I can put my own personal prejudices aside if you want to talk about it. In particular, I'd like to address your assumption that I'm only seeing my values. What particular positive values are associated with piracy, software or otherwise? How does this kind of behavior benefit the industry, or our society in general?
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I'm not arguing that piracy is a positive, but that it's possibly a neutral rather than a negative.

If someone doesn't support what he or she thinks is wrong for the industry - then that's a positive from that point of view.

Whether that person gets to enjoy the game or not, is irrelevant to the industry. As I said, a game can be enjoyable and yet still be totally wrong for the industry or the respective genre.

Games like Deus Ex 2 and Arcania can be entertaining - and yet still represent a seriously detrimental approach to their respective genres. So, in my opinion - supporting them is a bad thing for the industry. Shame on me, because I bought them both and enjoyed them slightly. I regret doing that, actually. Paying for them, I mean.

Just like I think Avatar is an abysmal and incredibly harmful thing to the movie industry - while still thinking it's a bit of fun. The spectacle is fun - but supporting the spectacle is to actively support creative bankruptcy - and it means you're supporting bad decisions for the future.

Because the mainstream audience is so willing to go pay for that spectacle - it means that we're going to see investors falling over themselves to recreate crap like that, and try to make everything "3D" just because they can, which means investing endless resources into something that - from my point of view - is very, very irrelevant to whether a movie is good or not.

It's about thinking long-term, rather than short-term.

*EDIT* As for my colorful wishes of horrible injury, I think that such a statement should be taken in context, and that it should be seen as an expression of frustration rather that a legitimate curse. The likelihood of such highly specific injuries actually happening due to a computer malfunction is so absurd that I had hoped the tongue in cheek nature would have been more obvious.
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I'm glad you didn't mean what you said :)
 
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