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November 17th, 2017, 12:15
Originally Posted by wiretripped View Post
Yes, that's the doomstack issue I was referring to. They're promising to deal with that in the upcoming patch, but no details have been divulged yet. I believe they'll probably have a fleet cap (possibly based on admiral skill) or some sort of "system attrition" mechanic.
The galactic terrain stuff, the chokepoints provided by hyperlanes and the new star fortresses should already make warfare a lot more strategic.

As for the combat itself (as in fleet-to-fleet, with fleet stances and the like), I don't think they'll flesh that out much more as that's not really in the scope of this game. You'll need to play an RTS a la Homeworld for that.
Gotcha, thanks.

I kinda enjoyed this game upon release - but it didn't hold my attention for very long. But I think it has the potential to be very good - so I'll try it again when it feels more complete.

As for combat, I think games like Sins of a Solar Empire have demonstrated that tactics and tech can be a big part of combat in real-time 4X/Grand strategy games. For me, a very big part of the fun of technology is tangible and distinct feedback when I upgrade or focus on certain things.

As in, if tech is just a number and doesn't have a personality that's both visible and significant in gameplay terms - then I find it incredibly boring and pointless.
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November 17th, 2017, 14:43
Originally Posted by NewDArt View Post
Gotcha, thanks.

I kinda enjoyed this game upon release - but it didn't hold my attention for very long. But I think it has the potential to be very good - so I'll try it again when it feels more complete.

As for combat, I think games like Sins of a Solar Empire have demonstrated that tactics and tech can be a big part of combat in real-time 4X/Grand strategy games. For me, a very big part of the fun of technology is tangible and distinct feedback when I upgrade or focus on certain things.

As in, if tech is just a number and doesn't have a personality that's both visible and significant in gameplay terms - then I find it incredibly boring and pointless.
I haven't played this but I think masters of orion 2 probably handled that mix the best from the games I have played.

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November 17th, 2017, 14:48
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
I haven't played this but I think masters of orion 2 probably handled that mix the best from the games I have played.

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MoO2 is my favorite 4X game

But it's not real-time - and I think 21 years should be enough time for some sequel to outdo it

The only reason I want a great real-time 4X space game is due to multiplayer. Turn-based strategy is my preference - but it's just too slow for multiplayer in most cases.
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November 17th, 2017, 18:18
Originally Posted by NewDArt View Post
MoO2 is my favorite 4X game

But it's not real-time - and I think 21 years should be enough time for some sequel to outdo it

The only reason I want a great real-time 4X space game is due to multiplayer. Turn-based strategy is my preference - but it's just too slow for multiplayer in most cases.
I think it's difficult to do real time combat well on such a scale. I think that it would be better to have something like total war then where you enter a separate map to play the battles in and or have the choice to autoresolve…

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November 18th, 2017, 18:43
Originally Posted by NewDArt View Post
As in, if tech is just a number and doesn't have a personality that's both visible and significant in gameplay terms - then I find it incredibly boring and pointless.
For sure! MoO2 certainly did well on that front (black hole guns!) but I consider Sword of the Stars the champion there. I mean - seriusly! You go from lasers, missiles, and rock throwers to having thumpers, plasma torps, anti-missile weapons, drones, lightning guns that arc from ship to ship, mines, tractor beams, and so on.

SotS2 has even more but it has other issues. I like it but most folks like the original better. (Just don't buy the original on Steam if you want multi-player. The keys they have been giving out since around June flat out don't work. Stick with the GOG version.)
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November 20th, 2017, 11:38
Originally Posted by Zloth View Post
For sure! MoO2 certainly did well on that front (black hole guns!) but I consider Sword of the Stars the champion there. I mean - seriusly! You go from lasers, missiles, and rock throwers to having thumpers, plasma torps, anti-missile weapons, drones, lightning guns that arc from ship to ship, mines, tractor beams, and so on.

SotS2 has even more but it has other issues. I like it but most folks like the original better. (Just don't buy the original on Steam if you want multi-player. The keys they have been giving out since around June flat out don't work. Stick with the GOG version.)
Certainly, SotS was better in terms of tactical gameplay - but, then again, that was pretty much the entire game.

MoO2 is my favorite because it is so very rich and varied. SimTex truly were masters of game design, in my opinion.
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November 20th, 2017, 15:39
I'm not a fan of 4x space games but from the ones I've played Stellaris is my favorite. Probably because of the thousands of possible events you can get that make it more than just 'build ships, move units, resolve battles, next turn'.
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November 21st, 2017, 14:18
I thought the issue with Stellaris was that you would encounter the same events multiple times in a single playthrough.

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November 21st, 2017, 19:43
Was pretty bad with the lack of events and diversity at release, but maybe that got better.
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November 23rd, 2017, 13:04
There are indeed a lot more events now (though not sure how many are in the free patches and how many in the DLC). I am on my 2nd game now after the Synthetic Dawn release and while I might get an event twice a few times, for most part they all feel unique and interesting.
Actually, I would say the earlier part of the game, where you're exploring the universe around you, is arguably the best part.
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November 23rd, 2017, 15:07
Originally Posted by wiretripped View Post
There are indeed a lot more events now (though not sure how many are in the free patches and how many in the DLC). I am on my 2nd game now after the Synthetic Dawn release and while I might get an event twice a few times, for most part they all feel unique and interesting.
Actually, I would say the earlier part of the game, where you're exploring the universe around you, is arguably the best part.
I may have a look then. Thanks for the update…

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November 30th, 2017, 16:18
Very interesting DD today on how they will rework combat and tackle the doomstack issue: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum…esign.1058152/

I have to say, most of those changes sound pretty good. I'm especially glad to see the disengagement mechanic, the combat roles returning and the fact they're doing something about the constant juggling of your ship's power sources. Man, I wasn't even aware how annoying the latter is until I read the DD.
Not sure entirely how I feel about the "force disparity" modifier: if it isn't overdone that's fine, but at first sight it seems a bit of an artificial construction to make sure smaller fleets at least do some damage instead of being utterly evaporated without destroying a single enemy ship.

All these DDs are making the current iteration of the game unplayable though. I need these features now.
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