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April 7th, 2017, 19:15
Originally Posted by jpnole View Post
Haha sorry but you are wrong if you think the EU is a well oil machine… like the USA for example.
Here's the funny part…we don't have Trump for president.

( Though I agree…EU ( like communism) is a noble concept, we're not ready yet).
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April 7th, 2017, 20:06
Originally Posted by They Live View Post
I wouldn't put it in terms of patriotism vs internationalism i would say having a future vs not having a future, real economy vs finance speculation.
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The UK is based on financial speculation.
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April 7th, 2017, 20:54
Originally Posted by NewDArt View Post
EU, the concept, is a good one. I would prefer a global union, though.
This is absolutely a terrible idea. What happens if you dont like the country you are in? You cant leave it because all the other countries have the same policies. The EU was always a terrible idea because the leaders of it have too much power.

Latest example of power abuse, the EU threatens Hungary and Poland with Expulsion if they dont accept more refugees.
http://www.eutimes.net/2017/04/eu-th…cting-muslims/
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April 7th, 2017, 21:18
Originally Posted by Damian View Post
TLatest example of power abuse, the EU threatens Hungary and Poland with Expulsion if they dont accept more refugees.
http://www.eutimes.net/2017/04/eu-th…cting-muslims/
Countries can't get expulsed from the EU. Article 7 does however allow the council to suspend the representation and voting rights of a state which repeatedly violates the EU's founding principles. But that's not easy to be done either.

Is the EU perfect? Far from it. But just like Winston Churchill supposedly once said "democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others", the EU is in my opinion the worst option, except for all the others.

As for the British leaving the EU, I certainly won't shed a tear once they do (for a multitude of reasons). Their economy might or might not suffer, but before they actually leave the bloc in 2019 it's almost impossible to make a reliable forecast, because until then they will enjoy all the benefits of being a member.
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Last edited by abharsair; April 7th, 2017 at 21:37.
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April 7th, 2017, 21:41
In the end it'll all work itself out. I expect the British relations with the EU will evolve to be much like Norway's. Norway is #4 on the World Happiness Index, so they seem to be managing all right without a EU membership. Must be all that Lutefisk they're swallowing.
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April 7th, 2017, 21:54
Perhaps it is all the money they get from their oil, which they use to maintain a social welfare state.
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April 7th, 2017, 22:05
Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
In the end it'll all work itself out. I expect the British relations with the EU will evolve to be much like Norway's. Norway is #4 on the World Happiness Index, so they seem to be managing all right without a EU membership. Must be all that Lutefisk they're swallowing.
Well, Norway agreed to the free movement of goods, capital, services and people between the EU and itself. It also makes financial contributions. The UK, on the other hand, has stated repeatedly that it won't accept all of those points, and therefore I have my doubts whether a "Norway-deal" will be possible.
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April 7th, 2017, 22:38
The usual myths abound.

The EU bureacracy that is supposed to be so bloated employs about as many people as Malmö municipality (population 300 000).

The EU is not trying to be a country like the US (part of its weakness is the lack of a vision of what it is supposed to be).

It is however correct that the Euro was a mistake.

Originally Posted by They Live View Post
I'm european and i salute England for doing the right thing, my country (italy) entered in EU without anything was asked to people and without anything was asked to the government of that time.

2 men decided for us Roman Prodi and Carlo Azelio Ciampi (whose past i will overlook for reason of space) from the day we were in (it was around 2001) EU vampirized us economically, killed our agriculture which was in good health and imposed absurd food laws which killed part of our gastronomical tradition.
Italy was a founding member of the EEC. Blaming Ciampi and Prodi seems rich.
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April 7th, 2017, 22:45
Originally Posted by Damian View Post
Latest example of power abuse, the EU threatens Hungary and Poland with Expulsion if they dont accept more refugees.
http://www.eutimes.net/2017/04/eu-th…cting-muslims/
That is an absolute bull manure source. Avoid like the plague.

The main EU beef with Hungary and Poland is that they are curtailing freedom of the press and the independence of the judiciary. Pressure from the EU is more or less what keeps them from sliding into dictatorship status.
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April 7th, 2017, 23:04
Shut up Damian. Poland likes EU funds but doesn't like fulfilling EU obligations.

You're right Zaleukos and, as a Polish citizen, I'm grateful to EU that our government is being prevented from doing what they damn want.
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April 7th, 2017, 23:07
Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
In the end it'll all work itself out. I expect the British relations with the EU will evolve to be much like Norway's. Norway is #4 on the World Happiness Index, so they seem to be managing all right without a EU membership. Must be all that Lutefisk they're swallowing.
You just don't have a clue do you?
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Last edited by zahratustra; April 7th, 2017 at 23:12. Reason: spelling
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April 7th, 2017, 23:11
Originally Posted by TheSHEEEP View Post
As a concerned EU citizen, I say:

Good riddance. Let UK serve as a prime example of why you do not leave the EU - oh and let's add Scotland ASAP and support their overdue independence. To rub some more salt in.
Frankly, the rest of the EU will be better off and might actually be capable of making more decisions without those constant naysayers.

Or, if all of that fails, let this show as the final proof of EU's incompetence. To get rid of that construct and replace it with something better.

Either way, I think of the Brexit as a good thing. It will bring change and clear some things up. One way or another. I do not feel pity for those who voted yes. Just another proof of democracy's shortcomings.
While I agree with you, I also think things would have turned out better in the long run if none of this had happened.
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April 8th, 2017, 00:33
The head of our well oiled machine here has promised to increase trade bilaterally with with the former head of the commonwealth, much like it had before joining the EU.

However, we will see about that. There's certainly a common understanding that our two movements are related and it could be beneficial to us both.

It could mean freer trade in the video game market between the UK and the US.
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April 8th, 2017, 01:05
Originally Posted by abharsair View Post
But just like Winston Churchill supposedly once said "democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others", the EU is in my opinion the worst option, except for all the others.
Eh, all governments have strengths and weaknesses, but not all governments benefit from capitalism.
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April 8th, 2017, 01:36
Originally Posted by Zaleukos View Post
The main EU beef with Hungary and Poland is that they are curtailing freedom of the press and the independence of the judiciary. Pressure from the EU is more or less what keeps them from sliding into dictatorship status.
That also seems like some "manure source". Its not true at least in case of Hungary. And government structure of EU itself become closer to dictatorship so they can hardly keep anyone from "sliding into dictatorship".
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April 8th, 2017, 07:30
Yeah, Orban is a through and through democrat oppressed by the dictatorial UE…
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April 11th, 2017, 13:14
Originally Posted by Myrthos View Post
The predecessor of the EU was based on uniting coal and steel producing countries. One of the reasons being that in order to start a war you need coal and steel to produce the weapons. By unifying the countries that could produce it, the chances of a war being started again would be reduced.
These days, as shown by the US president, the test of loyalty is high demand. People have little more to offer than their loyalty. This goes by displaying blind faith, belief in stuff known to be unvalid. Apparently, there is no better display in loyalty than following a well known liar.

That story of steel and coal after WWII, good show.

Coal and steel industries were declining in Europe, that was one opportunity to put them in common as they were of declining importance for each country involved and would weigh more once united.

European countries have kept separate anything that could be kept separated. This includes their weaponry industry, EU countries being major weapon dealers.
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April 11th, 2017, 14:50
Err… I don't have a clue what you are saying about the faith part.

For the rest I would suggest actually learning something of history and not make things up to get history aligned with your beliefs. When the predecessor of the EU was founded there was absolutely no decline of steel and coal production in Europe. That only happened much later. As far as steel production goes, the EU is the second largest producer after China at this moment.
For coal this is somewhat different as 3 decades after the start of the predecessor of the EU, coal mines started to close in Western Europe. Coal production is in decline world wide, however the EU is the fourth or fifth largest supplier of coal.

I do agree on EU being a large weapon dealer though.

Then again, nothing said here has anything to do about the topic we are discussing
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April 11th, 2017, 16:14
I don't know anything about the EU or Brexit, but I hope that it gets resolved in a way that makes all of Europe stronger.
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April 11th, 2017, 16:59
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
Yeah, Orban is a through and through democrat oppressed by the dictatorial UE…
Only short OT reaction: Yes, he is "through and through democrat" in comparison to never elected flunkeys and beaurocrats in EU structures like EC who dare to threaten countries, try to impose orders on them and silence political opponents in parliament that "dare" to have different opinion (what a crime in EU nowadays, right?).
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