What about a "best of" kind of game ?

Hello, everyone,

well, the title is partially kind of misleading.

I just had the idea of stitching together an RPG combined of all the "best of" elements of past RPGs.

Example:

- use the help system of TOEE
- use the quality of jokes from Divinity
- use the graphics engine from ...
- use the trees from ...
- use the music from ...
- use the map (-system) from ...

etc. .

Now my idea was to build up such a similar list with elements from every "best of" RPG together, I mean with that with "which RPG had the best map, the best music, the best help system" etc. .
Everyone writes down a list of let's say 10-15 games (a rough number, might be less as well) of such elements plus where his or her best incarnation odf that particular element could be found.

I had this idea because even nowadays I have too often the impression as if developpers rather try to re-invent the wheel instead of looking at games and just "borrow" elements from there that were actually good.

Some elements have already been "borrowed" industry-wide, without them being outstanding in particular. I don't know why, but they have just become kind of an "industry standard" - somehow. For example those mana/life balls/spheres of Blizzard's Action-RPGs.

On the other hand the imho most excellent and imho absolutely outstanding help system of TOEE has never been copied.

So, this list we compile here shoukld be some kind of "hint" or "help" for developers looking at UI and other elements that this community here believes are outstanding - even now - and could increase the quality of a new, yet to developed game.

Now, what do you think of this ?

Let's compile !

Alrik

The writing and depth of PS:T combined with the gameplay and world of BG2, and the character creation options of NWN2: SoZ.

Probably impossible since it's hard to get high level writing when you create entire parties from scratch (part of the reason why PS:T worked so well is that all the NPCs, the main character included, have a solid story to explore).

So, instead of just hoping for the impossible, I'll list elements:
PS:T - Writing/depth.
BG1 through BG2: ToB - Magnitude and continuity. It plays so well when combined.
Gothic 1, 2 and NotR - Exploration (feels worthwhile), atmosphere, factions.*
SW: KotOR - Plot twist.
SW: KotOR2 - Kreia.
Nox - Background story depending on the character (probably what Dragon Age will do with the whole origin thing).
Arcanum - Innovation/trying something new, and succeeding at making it work.
Might & Magic 7 - Good vs Evil, Humans vs Elves. Choices that truly change how you play the game, and how the world react.
Gothic 3 - Music.*

That's all I can think of for now.

*Updated after reading through the thread.

Sounds pretty damn good Maylander

Maylander said:

The writing and depth of PS:T combined with the gameplay and world of BG2, and the character creation options of NWN2: SoZ.

Probably impossible since it's hard to get high level writing when you create entire parties from scratch (part of the reason why PS:T worked so well is that all the NPCs, the main character included, have a solid story to explore).

So, instead of just hoping for the impossible, I'll list elements:
PS:T - Writing/depth.
BG1 through BG2: ToB - Magnitude and continuity. It plays so well when combined.
Gothic 1, 2 and NotR - Exploration (feels worthwhile), atmosphere.
SW: KotOR - Plot twist.
SW: KotOR2 - Kreia.
Nox - Background story depending on the character (probably what Dragon Age will do with the whole origin thing).
Arcanum - Innovation/trying something new, and succeeding at making it work.
Might & Magic 7 - Good vs Evil, Humans vs Elves. Choices that truly change how you play the game, and how the world react.

That's all I can think of for now.

Click to expand...

Put all this in a sci-fi setting and I would have my dream-game to be honest .

Meh.....

They already made the perfect game for me......it was called Gothic.

I would suggest to add a feature from VTM Bloodlines: Choose a different group/class/whatever (here the Malkavians) and play through the same plot with a complete new perception of everything.

Edit: And use music either from KaiRo or from Dynamedion.

Ultima 4-7's Virtues system, with more than just a simple "Karma" or "Reputation" system to handle in-game morality. I'd have each individual NPC have it's own relationship variable with the PC(s).

Might and Magic II-V's humor.

BG's continuity and fleshed out world. Ultima had a good world as well, but it was small compared to BG, and not as fleshed out. Then again, there have been how many Forgotten Realms books now?

Viewpoint of the classic Wizardries, with optional tactical combat similar to but deeper than the old Gold Box games. The classic Wizardry-style combat could be the quick combat option, or at least simple combat.

Skill system and broad range of character customization from Wizardry 6-8.

Bring back BT-like Bard Songs, as well as magical instruments.

M&M 7's dynamic world, one that changes due to the characters' choices in game. Maybe more complex, but we're already really dreaming here.

Dismemberment like in Phantasie III.

Writing quality of PS:T. While the main party may not have intriguing stories, dammit the rest of the world's inhabitants can and should.

Full-out diplomacy system that allows for a literal peace-nik run. No combat ever, without running.

Basically, everything that was in the original mechanics of my own design, prior to me realizing that my original diplomacy system and virtue/vice/relationship system was enough to spend a year coding and two trying to figure out what went wrong.

As soon as get thinking, I get hung up on combat ... I want real-time like Jedi Knight 2, RTwP like the BG games, turn-based, and so on and so on ...

I like loads of game types, and am happy with good things from all of them!

azraelck said:

Bring back BT-like Bard Songs, as well as magical instruments.

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I just realized that this is actually completely gone from the whole RPG genre.

The last time I saw and "used" magical instruments was in Wizardry 8.

Maybe this is about the DA remark that "fantasy isn't about lutes and flutes" or what it was (don't quite remember it anymore).

LOTRO has a little of that BT-style song stuff with the Minstrel, and you can even play instruments and compose your own songs.

Great stuff for an MMO

Can you guys remember Loom and how you weaved spells with songs?

Those were the days.

Off the top of my head, sometimes self-contradictorily -- and perhaps not too originally...

* Philosophical depth from PS:T
* Music from from PS:T
* Dialog and voice acting from VtM:Bloodlines
* Open-world design from Fallout
* Multiple quest solutions from Fallout
* Character development breadth from Neverwinter Nights 2
* Stealth gameplay from Thief
* Melee combat from Oblivion
* Martial arts combat from Jade Empire
* Group combat from The Witcher
* Narrative choices and consequences from The Witcher
* Party dynamics from Mask of the Betrayer
* Kreia from KOTOR 2. I like Kreia, so she has to be in.
* Living world from Dwarf Fortress
* Exploration from Gothic 2... or even Gothic 3/CP
* Factions from Gothic 2
* Breadth and continuity of BG

Can't believe I forgot factions and music. The faction system in G1 and 2 is very nice, I like it a lot. As for music - my favourite game music is actually from Gothic 3. I'll update my original post.

Age of Conan is my own personal favorite in that regard, but G3 had some amazing music, for sure.

Music? We don't need no stinkin music.

It's interesting (and telling, I would add) that nobody has mentioned gameplay or interface. There are a few "nuts and bolts" type responses, but most of the items are bells-n-whistles type stuff.

Excellent thread.

Sci-Fi RPG

Writing like in Planescape: Torment
Companions like in Baldur's Gate 2
Plot innovation like in Ultimas 4-7
Some kind of SPECIAL system for character development
Choices and consequences like in Fallout
Cinematics like in Mass Effect
Music as in Mass Effect (Kraftwerk-ish)
Both ground and ship combat (like in Buck Rogers)
Ground combat like in Jagged Alliance 2
Editor like in Oblivion/Fallout 3

A Fantasy-Sandbox with

- the Writing of Torment (and here we are already leaving realistic Possibilities)
- the living Companions of BG 2
- the Fallout C&C
- JA2 Combat for the important fights, IE-Fights for the Filler/Grind-Fights
- a NWN2-like Keep (but with much more Choices)
- the Races and Classes from Master of Magic, Neverwinter Nights 2 and the Northland-Triology
- the Magic-System from Master of Magic
- the Skills-System of the Northland-Triology
- the Fairy and Lizardman Races and the Tinker-Class from Wizardry
- the Healer and "Mystical Magic Blacksmith"-Classes from Legend of Faerghail
- from WoW the Warlock and Deathknight-Classes and the Religion of the holy Light as Main-Religion (oh and WoW-like Outfits at least for some of the female Casters, a bit of Eye-Candy is important)
- the Steampunk-Tech from Arcanum
- the Overland-Map from SOZ, but at least as big as the map of Sword of Destiny.
- enormous deadly Dungeons like in Dungeon-Master
- Use of Wilderness- Crafting- and Social- Abilities of the Characters as in SOZ or the Northland Triology.
- Party-Size of 8 Characters, like in the old Goldbox/M&M-Series.
- mature Content like in the Witcher, maybe a bit more tasteful/realistic ?
- more playable Parties like in Fate - Gates of Dawn
- some really difficult hidden encounters like i.e. in Final Fantasy VII

• Edgar Rice Burroughs' brand of heroism
• J.R.R. Tolkien's sense of legacy
• Steven Erikson's imagination and humor
• Shredder's analytical ability
• WoW’s level of collaboration

My dream RPG would be modular and designed in a myriad of iterations. Each character I played would experience its own unique adventures in a place that would always remain an enigma to me and be beloved for it.

My machine would be busy evaluating the endless possibilities of a complex world where unexpected mystery lurked in every crevice, arcane lore lingered in every forgotten ruin and captivating legacy embodied each distinct artifact waiting to be found, somehow by a questing adventurer.

I would navigate through the game by relying on a constant flow of accurate but limited information. Interactions would be depicted by a variety of clever simulations, none of which would resemble the real world. The only opportunity for a full view would be when I stopped to take a look around.

There would be a Dungeon Master who would involve himself anytime and anywhere and without any particular reason. He would be a connoisseur of my every option and would be strict but fair, just like DMs in the original P&P games.

My CRPG would emulate the original idea for D&D. There would be plenty of adventure and heroism with choices and strict consequences in a collaborative effort between me and the fantastic world my character was in.

Cyberpunk rpg

* AI malfunction plot from System Shock 2
* Beefed up computer hacking from Vampire: Bloodlines
* Isometric view from Fallout (3d graphics ala Troika's 3d-engine from failed attempt at the Fallout license)
* Close-up angle during talk, special interaction or in-game cutsceens as Vampire: Bloodlines (on par with Half-Life 2 engine)
* Character (with voiceacting) on par with Vampire: Bloodlines
* Progressively sinister characters/plot from Fallout 1
* Proper theme music as Fallout (even ripping off other musicians like they did)
* Revolutionary sound design with realtime effects from a yet to be released game
* Multiple solutions as in Fallout and Vampire: Bloodlines (talk,fight,trap,sneak,divert,etc)
* Upgrades from System Shock 2
* All content is coop friendly as in Baldur's Gate 1+2
* Pause and queue actions as in Knight's of the old republic
* Seamless world with procedural generated content in-between "content zones" as in Elder Scrolls (instanced indoor zones)
* Challenging tactical combat from Jagged Alliance 2
* Diverse classes and abilities from Baldur's Gate 1+2
* Environment usage from Gothic

dteowner said:

Music? We don't need no stinkin music.

It's interesting (and telling, I would add) that nobody has mentioned gameplay or interface. There are a few "nuts and bolts" type responses, but most of the items are bells-n-whistles type stuff.

Click to expand...

Interface is clearly an omission. I can't honestly think of any I really liked; all of them have some major flaws. Deus Ex's wasn't half bad, except for the inventory which required frequent rearranging to fit different-sized objects in it.

As to gameplay, IMO it's a product of all or most of these features -- combat, character development, dialog, AI. (AI is another omission, though -- I should've mentioned "AI from Dwarf Fortress.")

Bells-n-whistles? Perhaps not -- at least I'm kinda gratified to see that most of the points listed relate to what the games are "about" -- the content of the game, as it were, as I explained in my Witcher review. If you're a spreadsheet gamer, of course, you'll have a different perspective on it.

- the possibility to step into another dimension (or what was it) from Kult: Heretic Kingdoms
- attunement system from there, too
- social possibilities at least borrowed a bit from the SIMs
- in-game books and literature like in Divinity ans in the SIM City games

Well, that's it for now. I'm developing my thoughts over time. ,)