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October 27th, 2017, 19:29
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
Non sense. Crowdfunded scene is the one that brought multiplayer to UgoIgo party based products.
You shouldn't let your dislike of crowd funding blind you. I'll never lost my time collect for you the obvious statistics about turn based games and crowd funding.

I always played in priority turn based and its comeback is totally obviously linked to crowd funding, but again certainly XCOM 1 contributed significantly. And for multiplayer and TB, I totally don't care and there's no link with TB come back.
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
The crowdfunded scene of a bubble of privileges which is afforded a regressive pattern. Crowdfunded products do not need to improve on their predecessors (they do not match old good games in their gameplay) and they do not need to innovate.
Innovate, the big word, piety I tried played too many of those "innovating" indie games, hours of boredom. Most of those innovative games are for game dev/designers aspirant, the most fun of most of those games isn't their gameplay it's to quote the innovations. It's like prototype from a lab, in reality it's not finished and tuned, it's half working. Who buy prototype car, seriously.

That's a young obsession (and reviewers obsessions bored of playing so only innovation wake up their curiosity), young still have the illusion that it means anything to be in the hype and at the edge of I don't know what. Sure don't read any classic, too late they don't innovate anymore, sigh, many young are superficial, it's nothing new they just need some maturity.
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
Crowdfunded products are afforded to be inferior to their predecessors and copies of their predecessors.
I know many elders here believe firmly best games was all in past. I don't agree with that. It's not that simple. Just one example, for me XCOM is hugely superior to X-Com. They are different games, but if I am forced to compare them, here is my opinion. Moreover if I add that XCOM 2 isn't just XCOM 2 but it's two games and it's also Long War 2, the oldie classic can't bear the comparison from far, for me.

For big budget crowd funded RPG, yep for now all had significant screwed up elements. But most famous RPG of past had also their share of screwed up elements, I'll take only one example, Ultima 7 had total crap combats, it was full of bugs, it had the worst real time programming ever. So nope, it's not that simple and from far.

Wasteland 2 Director's Cut and Dragonfall are for me those from crowd funding that achieved be classic. PoE is a bit too many garbage in many aspects but let see what will be PoE2, PoE1 extensions had already a significantly better quality. DOS is a unique and innovative RPG, too bad they screwed up the writing, character/party building is rather limited, and for vanilla they failed polish design of too many combats, it's possible DOS EE fixed that last point, I never played it. Otherwise I had fun with some more indie from Banner Saga to Antharion.

Now yeah crowd funding mechanism aren't pushing to innovation, it's a problem for youngers and blase players, not for older players that aren't over saturated by playing.
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
Devs have been turning to social features as a way to cope with the difficulty of making progress in SP products.
Social features come as a substitute for the lack of expected SP products.
Devs fail to deliver any progress in the SP department so they turn to social features as additional content.
Progress, innovation, again. Social aspect of crowd funding RPG, eventually coop of DOS, and stupid Banner Saga idea to polish single player gameplay though a multiplayer variation facepalm, I don't see much more.

The big trick was story and change games into entertainment. Who's is whining about story innovations? So this let more space to make something new without to reinvent the wheel again and again. Could be a bit lame, but mass of players appreciate this increased focus on entertainment aspects. That's also certainly the main cause of gameplay general quality drop down, with exceptions. This brought many new problems of game design that hadn't to manage older games.

Perhaps social is the new lame trick, but it's no way brought by crowd funding.

And also bash on crowd funding is more and more a stupid idea, time are coming where most money for games will be spend into multiplayer and social, crowd funding will be even more the glow in time of darkness.

People like you, making a sport to bash crowd funding, are a serious shame. You should better go back play your Ubi and EA games, and stop destroy something you can't understand and that isn't your concern.
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October 27th, 2017, 21:08
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
Exactly. Sponsors want to hear his judgment on something. Right or wrong, agree or disagree, he doesn't just stall and earn $ by wasting others' time.
Of course since he fills their time with what they desire to hear.
It does not mean that he has a personal view: his job is to guess what his audience desires to hear and serve them.

Unlike twitch where streamers have to pretend being excited about Destiny 2 because Bungie paid them to. Even Jessica Alba would be more believable than all those twitchers.
No. This is the point that it is being kept evading.

Streamers market themselves as having fun when playing a product. They do not need to be paid by a studio to take that path since it is their business plan.

Sponsoring a streamer is counter productive: their audience think they are being bought. And the sponsor buys nothing as by trade steamers show themselves as having fun.

What matters for devs is to provide streamers with a product that enables them to perform their trade: showing themselves as having fun.

Streamers are high on the priority list and devs design their product with streamers'needs first in their mind.

So, it is useless for devs to buy streamers. It is way better to design streamer friendly products.

Players who play streamer friendly products play products that are designed and made for streamers first.
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October 27th, 2017, 21:16
Originally Posted by Dasale View Post
You shouldn't let your dislike of crowd funding blind you. I'll never lost my time collect for you the obvious statistics about turn based games and crowd funding.

I always played in priority turn based and its comeback is totally obviously linked to crowd funding, but again certainly XCOM 1 contributed significantly. And for multiplayer and TB, I totally don't care and there's no link with TB come back.
Point was missed: nonsense to claim that the crowdfunded scene is somewhat clean from MU taint as they applied it to UgoIgo party based products.

Beside, UgoIgo never disappeared, there has been tons of UgoIgo products coming from Japan for example.
Innovate, the big word, piety
It is indeed the big word. Entire societies were crushed because they were assessed as failing to innovate so that their resources can be allocated to societies that were deemed to innovate.
Innovation is the ultimate criterion to allow consumption. You do not provide something innovative, you do not do.
Wasteland 2 Director's Cut and Dragonfall are for me those from crowd funding that achieved be classic.
UgoIgo gameplay is weak in those two and do not match the offer in the past.
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October 27th, 2017, 21:33
JRPG? Are you serious? Console stuff and it's very specific. Moreover it was very rare on PC until recently.

Sure country crashed because of video games. Can't you stick use serious arguing?

I don't care of your opinion on turn based, repeat something doesn't make it true, you brought no argument, learn play chess and stop say non sense about tactics and strategy.
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October 27th, 2017, 21:37
Not repeating things also do not make things true.

As to serious stuff, apparently, it includes dismissing a product because there are released on a console.

Gamers care about gameplay and incidentally games, not the platform they are released on.
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October 27th, 2017, 21:44
So playing game requires buy all consoles? That one is new. Believe me you can play games without ever touching any console. I never been in any console generations I won't start now.

Gamers… Sure you know what gamers are and should be, sigh. You really need take some distance between you and reality, what you think is just that, not reality.
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October 27th, 2017, 21:51
Gamers were defined as people interested in gameplay since gameplay is what makes a game (already the double standard showing and the tag stuff is not applied, as expected)

Buying all consoles, that is sidetracking. Buying one console to play the UgoIgo offer is enough.
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October 29th, 2017, 07:14
In a lot of games, there is not much gameplay. They are just interactive stories.
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November 1st, 2017, 15:03
Originally Posted by Dilvish View Post
In a lot of games, there is not much gameplay. They are just interactive stories.
Well, that's true for Adventure Games - which have nearly died out.
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November 2nd, 2017, 13:55
Originally Posted by Dilvish View Post
In a lot of games, there is not much gameplay. They are just interactive stories.
I assure you, Farmville played by billions of people, which is only gameplay good or bad, has no (interactive) story.
A lot of games in fact don't have any story. (Competent) writers seem too expensive so usually PR advocates stories are burden and not necessity in games.
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November 2nd, 2017, 20:26
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
Well, that's true for Adventure Games - which have nearly died out.
There have been many releases of adventure games lately. Over the last two years at least.
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