Grimoire
- Thread starter beldurax
- Start date
Yeah - I had wondered about that too: Cashing in all his chips would be a very human thing to do. But I don't get the impression that Cleve's mind really works like that. For a start he appears to have a lot of pride in his creation. I may be wrong, but I've thought since playing the first demo that he is very involved in his creation and it's perception and isn't just interested in turning a quick buck. That and the contrast with his brash online persona is one of the things that makes it all so fascinating.
Ripper
Зичу Вам успіхів
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I think, fascinating a case as he may be, we can never really know. In all fairness, though, it does seem that he has actually released a full game of at least satisfactory size, which puts to bed the idea of it being a total sham. As many people on the codex said to frustrated newcomers prior to release, you don't understand - these shenanigans ARE the game. That was very much my impression of it.
I've always just felt that we would do well to have at least as much fun at his expense as he appeared to be having at everyone else's.
I've always just felt that we would do well to have at least as much fun at his expense as he appeared to be having at everyone else's.
- Joined
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NewDArt
Guest
What I mean is that players can obviously choose to play much longer than they need to. There's no question that TES has the content to support it.
I don't personally think TES has a great deal of visual variety, but it has more than Grimoire at least from what I've seen. In terms of fidelity though, yeah.. that's like comparing a Volkswagen to a Ferrari.
Well, considering the scope and amount of content available in a modern TES game, I think there's a pretty staggering amount of variety.
But if we go back a while to games like Daggerfall and Arena - then I agree that the scope far outweighed the actual variety.
In fact, I don't think it was until Skyrim that I, personally, felt there was enough variety to justify "hundreds" of hours of time spent in that world.
Morrowind and Oblivion always felt a bit too samey to me after a few dozen hours. Still, they were impressive in their own ways.
Anyway, off-topic.
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NewDArt
Guest
Well, you're clearly impressed by numbers - but you don't actually know what content is available throughout.
I mean, I could go into my own level editor right now and create a game that's ten times bigger than Grimoire simply by changing the third number in my multi-dimensional array used for the dungeon structure and have 1000 levels of significant size.
I guess that makes me some kind of master creator?
Nah, not really.
What we need to know - and what you clearly do NOT know - is exactly what kind of variety and content density we can expect from the ENTIRE game, not just the initial levels.
Many, many games are front-loaded with content - and this is where I can't just assume everything good the fanatics are saying about Grimoire is actually true. Not only because they're clearly biased - but mostly because they can't actually know - because they haven't actually experienced the content yet.
As for other games being different, I already acknowledged that. I was talking about the audience - which is similar, no matter what you seem to believe.
If you want a HUGE and reasonably complex dungeon crawler with a reasonable price, you should check out The Quest.
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Deleted User
Guest
But didn't someone say the game was beaten at 80 hours with the player only missing a couple areas? That does not seem anywhere close to 600 hours of content, unless there is Skyrim+ amounts of hidden content in the game.
And The Quest is great, but I didn't find it huge. You could do most of the content and beat the game before the 50 hour mark. Really neat game, though.
And The Quest is great, but I didn't find it huge. You could do most of the content and beat the game before the 50 hour mark. Really neat game, though.
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NewDArt
Guest
That tells us nothing, really.
I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say they've beaten some game in 20 hours and insisting they did "almost everything" - only to have some other guy state that he's 60 hours into it, and that he hasn't seen half of the game.
Case in point, thank you.
That said, I'm including all the post-release content available for it. I never played just the core game.
It's easily a 100 hour game to me, anyway. Not that I will ever finish it.
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Deleted User
Guest
The core game is closer to 30-40 hours. But yes, with all the expansions I'm sure it's closer to a 100 hour game.
I just beat Planescape: Torment EE which took close to 100 hours. Gothic 2 with the expansion took me over 100 hours. That game was way bigger than I expected. Divinity: Original Sin took us 140 hours, we just about 100%'d it, but the number was probably slightly inflated due to the co-op aspect.
But I am definitely waiting to see some reviews after a couple hundred hours of Grimoire. I'm curious myself just to see if the game really has as much content as advertised.
I just beat Planescape: Torment EE which took close to 100 hours. Gothic 2 with the expansion took me over 100 hours. That game was way bigger than I expected. Divinity: Original Sin took us 140 hours, we just about 100%'d it, but the number was probably slightly inflated due to the co-op aspect.
But I am definitely waiting to see some reviews after a couple hundred hours of Grimoire. I'm curious myself just to see if the game really has as much content as advertised.
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NewDArt
Guest
Another case in point, thank you.
For the average player, Torment is less than half of that - even if you include extras.
Here:
https://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=7093
Hopefully, you will now understand that you can't rely on the statement of a single person for something like this.
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Deleted User
Guest
Well, the Leisure Completionist run is somewhat close to my number. I would classify my style as that as well. I tend to be slower in RPGs.
Let me know when the Lesiure Complete numbers for Grimoire come in.
Let me know when the Lesiure Complete numbers for Grimoire come in.
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NewDArt
Guest
Well, the Leisure Completionist run is somewhat close to my number. I would classify my style as that as well. I tend to be slower in RPGs.
Let me know when the Lesiure Complete numbers for Grimoire come in.
I'm not sure you are what I would call a completionist
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Deleted User
Guest
I try and not be OCD about it nowadays but for most of my RPG gaming life I've tried to 100% the games (to a reasonable extent, I don't go for achievements and that stuff.)
Not long ago people were claiming that the whole thing was a scam, that the super demo was all there was and countless other things. All those things have now been shown to be wrong. The game is largely as Cleve said it would be. Maybe more so, in that the level of detail is quite surprising. It is certainly *possible* from my current POV that there is some desert of content somewhere in the game, but if so no one has found it yet (perhaps they are all really Cleve in disguise and doing a cover up?) and many are much further into the game than I am.
And to answer Fluent's point: It is possible in most games to create some OP party and rush to the end of a game, ignoring most of the content. In Grimoire you can turn off some encounters and the recruitable NPCs are currently way OP, so that would make it even easier. What I do know is that there are some 250 maps and that it has taken me several hours to mostly explore a couple of them. You can do the math. And as I said earlier go look at the Grimoire world maps. Personally, I sacked recruitable NPCs and other crutches and restarted, and am not rushing anyway.
Grimoire critics are starting to to sound like AGW deniers...
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NewDArt
Guest
I never said anything about the game being a scam. What other people say is their business.
But yes, we agree that you can't actually know - and that you're just assuming all maps are full of distinct content that never stops being fresh.
I'm afraid that doesn't quite work for me, though. I need something a bit more convincing than blind faith.
FWIW I'm 25hrs in and I reckon I've probably cleared about twenty maps in that time. If the total number of maps is correct then I've still got a long, long way to go. There is clearly a question about whether the quality of the later maps is as good ("sparsely populated" has been mentioned) but no answer for that yet. So far the content has been great though, balancing and bugs aside.
There is a lot of tileset reuse if that kind of thing bothers you. I'm ok with it so far because the map designs are great and there is plenty of variety in the enemies. After another 50hrs I might want to see a different type of dungeon though.
There is a lot of tileset reuse if that kind of thing bothers you. I'm ok with it so far because the map designs are great and there is plenty of variety in the enemies. After another 50hrs I might want to see a different type of dungeon though.
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NewDArt
Guest
Yep, please let us know how it holds up later on.
There is a lot of tileset reuse if that kind of thing bothers you. I'm ok with it so far because the map designs are great and there is plenty of variety in the enemies. After another 50hrs I might want to see a different type of dungeon though.
Well, I'm not entirely unrealistic. This is the work of one guy - and I don't expect that much in the way of visual variety. For a game like this, I'd probably expect something like ~20 tilesets. More would be better, obviously - but if we're talking a 600 hour game - then less than 20 tilesets would be a problem.
10 tilesets with smart color variation might work, though.
But, really, it's more about the execution and level design. You can have levels look and feel different using the same tileset if you're creative about the placement of objects and "decorations".
To me, it's more about the heart of the content - meaning the writing, puzzles, secrets, itemization, and so on.
Tilesets are important - but they're not as vital as what you can expect to find in the way of new stuff.
I'd rather have a few tilesets but the entire game full of unique and distinct puzzles/content.
On the other hand, even with a zillion tilesets - reusing puzzles or endless "teleporter" challenges get stale very, very quickly.
I was only referring to visuals. I wasn't talking about quest content or variety in general. Personally, I wasn't impressed by Skyrim much in that way, but I'm not a big fan of the look of that region and climate when the entire game is made of it.
Visuals are subjective though. I found Morrowind more impressive (for its time) than Skyrim, and I still think it offers more variety especially when it comes to the different styles of architecture in the game.
Skyrim is definitely more colorful though.
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NewDArt
Guest
Yes, it all comes down to subjective preferences.
I'm mostly talking about the dungeon/underground locations, though. That's where the vast majority of my fun with TES games lies.
I'd tend to agree that Morrowind was more interesting when it comes to towns, for instance. At least more imaginative
For Skyrim, I think they did an extremely good job making the countless locations look and feel different - even when using the same assets.
Which isn't a big surprise, given they went from just one dedicated dungeon designer to eight of them. Not sure if they increased that number from Skyrim to Fallout 4 - but it would make sense, as I think Fallout 4 is their best game yet for the purposes of exploration variety.
I think Morrowind dungeons and caves smacked of repetition - but I guess that's where the subjective perception comes into play
Carnifex
SasqWatch
I've played about thirty five hours so far, most of my crew is level six, and I've advanced the plot a bit, I think....I just finished a place called the Wizard's Sky Barge, which had two interesting encounters inside. Other than two crashes which happened within the first ten hours of play (and no crashes since), I've had no issues at all with this game.