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March 26th, 2019, 12:32
Originally Posted by Silver View Post
I thought me finding it hilarious instead of stamping my feet would of tipped you off.
So, just to be clear - are you suggesting now that this comment was a joke that I misunderstood?
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March 26th, 2019, 13:10
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
So, just to be clear - are you suggesting now that this comment was a joke that I misunderstood?
No not a joke. Just that I found the situation funny in retrospec given our apparent inability to communicate on the same page.
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March 26th, 2019, 13:51
Originally Posted by Silver View Post
No not a joke. Just that I found the situation funny in retrospec given our apparent inability to communicate on the same page.
I don't really buy that, and I don't think we've had an "inability to communicate". I think the problem is that you keep attempting to retrospectively avoid what you've said.
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March 26th, 2019, 13:52
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
I don't really buy that, and I don't think we've had an "inability to communicate". I think the problem is that you keep attempting to retrospectively avoid what you've said.
Well I don't know what else to tell you. Thats what I meant by that.

edit: what did you want clarified?
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March 26th, 2019, 14:00
Originally Posted by Pessimeister View Post
Just to move away from the political commentary slightly and to resume focusing on the actual game based upon what we know so far; I do find it curious that the whole notion of "consent" that is being emphasized at this point appears to greater connect with light BDSM Dom/Sub human relationships than it does with actual vampirism and the original dark romantic themes from WoD.

I'm mildly concerned that the game's desire for greater accessibility is going to diminish it's anti-establishment potential and lessen the liberating fun of role-playing an anarchic character who is not interested in the slightest in remaining politically correct. That said, it'd be nice to be proven wrong in these reflections. We'll see.
There was no emphasis on "consent", some dude started to claim "consent is boring" on the official discord, the moderator answered saying it wasn't and that the game was going to support it and drama resulted because role-playing games are apparently not supposed to support various role-play options these days.

By the way, what do you think you were doing in Bloodlines 1 when you were paying prostitutes or seducing people to take a sip? The humans and vampires just have a different point of view of what kissing is.
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March 26th, 2019, 14:29
Happy to be wrong on the "consent" topic az, if it's not over emphasised and merely a bunch of narrow minded blown up hyperbole then great! I was just making a general observation in connection with human relationships vs vampirical relationships and implying that there could be a danger of losing that distinctive essence if it becomes more like watching humans pretending (larping) to be vampires rather than exploring exactly what it means to be a vampire itself. Hopefully the developers are conscious of these issues.

Actually, I don't think my character in Bloodlines engaged in the actions you mentioned, but that's ok, I get what you mean.

It's good news at least to hear that Brian Mitsoda has confirmed that there's no voiced protagonist. I think that's a sound logical choice for a game of this kind. https://twitter.com/bmitsoda/status/1109876977224146944
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March 26th, 2019, 14:33
Originally Posted by Silver View Post
Well I don't know what else to tell you. Thats what I meant by that.

edit: what did you want clarified?
All I can suggest is that you look at what you post, and consider whether it actually says what you think it does. No need for further clarification - I think it's all become clear at this point!
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March 26th, 2019, 17:16
Originally Posted by Pessimeister View Post
Happy to be wrong on the "consent" topic az, if it's not over emphasised and merely a bunch of narrow minded blown up hyperbole then great! I was just making a general observation in connection with human relationships vs vampirical relationships and implying that there could be a danger of losing that distinctive essence if it becomes more like watching humans pretending (larping) to be vampires rather than exploring exactly what it means to be a vampire itself. Hopefully the developers are conscious of these issues.

Actually, I don't think my character in Bloodlines engaged in the actions you mentioned, but that's ok, I get what you mean.
The tabletop material doesn't really have any distinctive essence among vampires outside "needs blood to survive" between the various clans. They all have different point of views in regard to their damned status and their relationship to humans and each others. The Tzimisce are pretty much "humans are cattle and crafting materials" but they are a minority. "Clinging to my humanity" is supported via a gameplay mechanic too.

The setting is also an alter-earth where a lots of humans "grand achievements/events" was done by vampires because they manipulate everything in the background. For example, Rome destroying Carthage: VtM and real life versions. I read that in-setting, Seattle was created by vampires too.

In fact, it's quite similar to "cyberpunk" but with the cyber replaced by the occult, more goth than punk aesthetic and not being able to play as a baseline human.
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March 26th, 2019, 18:26
I think you missed the point I was trying to make regarding making distinctions between humans and vampires. If a vampire is merely a human that "needs blood to survive"; what's the point? The concept of "the hunger" or the trauma of the embrace for instance is quite distinct to vampirism in this setting. It is ferocious, monstrous and quite inhuman. Thus, I think you're probably being slightly too reductionist regarding the source material. I have the second edition handbook and whilst I haven't read or played the tabletop game for years, its literary richness, character based story-telling and connections to the romantic poetry I loved at the time is what made me seek out Bloodlines when it came out.

I agree with your general characterisation of the setting though I'd go for "dark romanticism" or "gothic-punk" rather than goth by itself which I think has other shallow connotations. I do hope that the urban grit and decay will be continue aesthetically in the sequel; one or two of the screenshots have been promising on this front.

That said, I am keen to see more actual gameplay (and role-playing) footage like many of us are, to gauge my full interest. The writing will also be extremely critical in this regard.
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March 26th, 2019, 18:40
Originally Posted by Pessimeister View Post
I think you missed the point I was trying to make regarding making distinctions between humans and vampires. If a vampire is merely a human that "needs blood to survive"; what's the point? The concept of "the hunger" or the trauma of the embrace for instance is quite distinct to vampirism in this setting. It is ferocious, monstrous and quite inhuman. Thus, I think you're probably being slightly too reductionist regarding the source material. I have the second edition handbook and whilst I haven't read or played the tabletop game for years, its literary richness, character based story-telling and connections to the romantic poetry I loved at the time is what made me seek out Bloodlines when it came out.
I think we misunderstood each others actually. The "consent" thing is for vampire who wants to reject his/her nature (see the Salubri clan). Whatever the player gets the point or miss it, like some did with the player's ghoul in Bloodlines 1, is another story.
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March 26th, 2019, 23:05
Official twitter account comment on the "political" stuff.

The full thing that doesn't fit in one tweet: Regarding the quote from Ka'ai where he said it's "politically charged" we use the setting to talk about a lot of different issues as a metaphor through the lens of the world of darkness - the game is about conflict -personal conflict and conflict between the new and the old. Our systems aren't really morality-based. You're a monster, your choices are more about if you're a redeemable monster or not.

There was also a comment that you (the player) decided what are your redeemable choices in another tweet.
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March 27th, 2019, 10:55
Just to add for those interested.

Link - https://www.resetera.com/threads/vam…tation.106919/

loading…

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March 27th, 2019, 14:45
I just wish they released more gameplay for it so people don't focus so much on the SJW/anti SJW stuff…
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March 27th, 2019, 14:57
22 minutes long video about what exactly? I don't have that much time for nonsense and mundanity.

Once the game gets released, if reactions are positive I'll buy, if not I won't care.
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March 27th, 2019, 21:33
Originally Posted by forgottenlor View Post
The problem with lable like "SJW" or "Racist" is that they are often thrown around for things people don't like.
More likely, people prefer to dismiss charges of racism about things they like. A conveniency to avoid not feeling cool.
A lot of it has to do with lack of empathy in my opinion. For example, I do not see any overt racism in Kingdom Come: Deliverance. Yes everyone is white and there is a protagonist who you must play who is a white male. But in medieval Bohemia you wouldn't find a weaponsmith who wasn't a white male so it makes sense from a historical perspective.
From a historical perspective, it makes no sense to drop the quailfier white when speaking about Bohemians.
The view that dominates in this product that all white people are interswappable, that as long as them are white, it is all fine and racist is the result of the racist establishment and foundation of the US society through their melting pot thing.

KCD accomodates this view to please a modern audience. One compromize at the exclusion of others.

Double standard at work players have nothing against compromizes until they do not match their views.
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March 27th, 2019, 21:50
Originally Posted by vurt View Post
it’s definitely taking political stances on what we think are right and wrong"[/I] (we=the devs). So real world politics. It has no place in games, i don't need them to tell me they don't like conservatives or Trump or whatever. They can keep that to themselves.
WW forte until they gave up on it with their reboot was the metaplot of a world anchored in real life.
Their world chronology ran parallel to the real world and was meant to be updated as the real world moved on.

That was one of their strong points reading a historical period of time and grafting their world to it.

Real world politics had definitively their place in WOD as it used to be. It was the core of it.
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March 27th, 2019, 23:12
The trailer has blood dripping from a faucet and a guy getting pummeled over the head with a shovel. Mitsoda said some humans are even worse than vampires in their behavior. I highly doubt it's going to be a sunshine and rainbows SJW game.
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March 27th, 2019, 23:17
Originally Posted by TheRealFluent View Post
I highly doubt it's going to be a sunshine and rainbows SJW game.
I had no idea there existed any SJW games that were all sunshine and rainbows. Is Stardew Valley an SJW game?
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March 28th, 2019, 06:32
SWJ, very likely, a game, that is another story.

Originally Posted by forgottenlor View Post
And on to films I saw "Captain Marvel" with my daughter on Friday, which some conservatives are trying to sink, because of some things Brie Larson said in an interview. Its a good superhero film in my book, and I don't see it as propoganda. Not everyone thinks like me or is like me. I think people should try to see things from the perspectives of others and not be so sensitive.
A us made movie, a superhero one at thar, conveying no propaganda, would be some sort of oddity.
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March 31st, 2019, 12:14
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Just to add for those interested.

Link - https://www.resetera.com/threads/vam…tation.106919/

loading…

Don't say I only contribute to one side.
Dune movie was spotted as a ground full of promises for the woke crowd. This was still very far from thinking these guys would manage to sell the idea White Wolf is about to go woke.

Going to be entertaining.
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