Fallout 3 - Editorial @ Destructoid

DArtagnan said:

Personally, I'm getting a bit tired of the pointless Codex-oriented posts.

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Aye, my point pretty much. It's why people talking smack about sites is a problem, not just because it lures in bad types from those sites, but also because it becomes a tiring derail factor.

bemushroomed said:

Well ok, IRL they are insulting the people that likes the product and the people behind it.

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No, they're criticizing a product. Let us please not pretend that criticizing a product is the same as insulting someone, or that developers need us to protect their frail egos. If you're putting a creative product on the market, you're giving people license to criticize it, and have no right to view said critiques as personal attacks unless and until they're actually pointed at you (as in "you're an idiot, dev!" and lots of these fans do that, and I don't approve of it).

Also, if you're so tied to a product that you're insulted when someone else doesn't like it, that's on you, not on the person criticizing it. Some of those people need to get their priorities straight.

bemushroomed said:

the game companies creates games, not to sell them, but to satisfy a really really small group of extremely conservative people.

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But is that really the viewpoint of the people you and this article are criticizing, or is it just a strawman you can easily cut down?

In the same way, people who critize a product without valid arguments must be prepared to critizied themselves. If they can't take that, well, i guess that says that IRL they really dont have any good arguments, they're just angry and need to grow up a little (and maybe be a little less narrow minded.)

I think its totaly ok to critize a product if the points are valid and realistic. To expect a 2D game similar to FO1-2 isnt realistic. An example, i gave 20 (or so) reasons why i thought FO3 and 3D view is superior to FO1-2 and a 2D engine at the NMA forums. I had like 10-12 people against me (most of them not even trying to have a civlized conversation, just insulting me in different ways when they couldnt find a good argument), it ended with one of the moderators (who was one of those who used a lot of bad language and couldnt come up with counter arguments) banning me.

bemushroomed said:

In the same way, people who critize a product without valid arguments must be prepared to critizied themselves.

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Agreed. But this argument doesn't actual address or point out invalid arguments. It picks quotes from a review with selective bias and then pretends those selective quotes represent a rabid, one-sided community. I have no problem with being critical of NMA, heck, I am myself, but I don't see why I should take people approaching us like that seriously.

bemushroomed said:

To expect a 2D game similar to FO1-2 isnt realistic.

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Which is why the majority has long since stopped clamoring for that. Van Buren was 3D, with a movable camera. How many NMAers dismissed it because of that? None.

bemushroomed said:

it ended with one of the moderators (who was one of those who used a lot of bad language and couldnt come up with counter arguments) banning me.

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Was that back in the Rosh days? He was a lot less tolerant than NMA is nowadays.
It's funny how many people still hate NMA essentially because of Rosh. Good guy.

Brother None said:

Which is why the majority has long since stopped clamoring for that. Van Buren was 3D, with a movable camera. How many NMAers dismissed it because of that? None.

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Which is odd, because many people were dismissing FO3 before it was even released.

JDR13 said:

Which is odd, because many people were dismissing FO3 before it was even released.

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Yes. But based on the previews. Previews can make you decide to buy something, they can have you decide not to buy something. Neither attitude is bad, you're under no obligation to give any game a chance. I don't know how many people of those "many" dismissed Fallout 3 before release for the overly simplistic reasons that people ascribe to them, though. It's never that easy.

That was a great article. If these "fans" had their way all gaming companies would simply be out of business. Thankfully these folks are largely ignored and irrelevant.

Brother None said:

Yes. But based on the previews. Previews can make you decide to buy something, they can have you decide not to buy something. Neither attitude is bad, you're under no obligation to give any game a chance.

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I agree 100%, but FO3 seemed to get dismissed a bit more than the average game, and I'm pretty sure it had something to do with the pedestals that FO 1&2 are placed on.