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Default Another survey on Pathfinder: Kingmaker on the game difficulty

November 8th, 2019, 12:24
Dear Pathfinders!

We know well that the first playthrough of the «Pathfinder: Kingmaker» might be difficult for players unfamiliar with Pathfinder ruleset. We want to make the game more transparent for new players, so the start of the game will be be better at teaching you the system and getting rid of chore of googling unfamiliar things as much as possible. And who can help us better than our players? Your feedback was always important to us and we appreciate your input. So, if you want to help us improve our game, please, complete this survey. We want to know, what was unclear, hard and illogical during your first steps in Pathfinder: Kingmaker.

https://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/5298493/kingmaker
I'm a little concerned with their focus on difficulty. I know they probably want to get wider audience but I think the game has become a little too easy now.
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November 8th, 2019, 14:06
I'll skippit as there was nothing IMO wrong with the difficulty in the first place.
The only survey they needed to make was on horrible timers that prevented me to fully enjoy the game till I applied the no timers mod.
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November 8th, 2019, 22:53
But this isn't changing hte game difficulty for those who know the rules around character build - rathre it is changing the difficulty for those who are unfamiliar with the rules around pathfinder - so i'm not sure i see the objection ?

Originally Posted by purpleblob View Post
I'm a little concerned with their focus on difficulty. I know they probably want to get wider audience but I think the game has become a little too easy now.
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November 8th, 2019, 23:24
Originally Posted by you View Post
But this isn't changing hte game difficulty for those who know the rules around character build - rathre it is changing the difficulty for those who are unfamiliar with the rules around pathfinder - so i'm not sure i see the objection ?
Erm, the game got easier for all difficulty settings so it affects everyone, not just someone who aren't familiar with the rules. I used to find normal difficulty in Kingmaker quite challenging. Now its a cakewalk. Sure, I can bump up the difficulty. But what about those who used to play on hardest difficulty??
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November 9th, 2019, 00:03
I think the difficulty is fine as it is. I find it a bit too easy (playing on challenging) and I think most of the challenge some people have is not using the right tools for the job or not using the right mix of characters.

A good example would be not using electrical resist spells before fighting wisps - if you do the fights are trivial, if you don't they are very challenging. I've seen people build parties full of glass cannons, you either needs a real tank with a high AC or plenty of crowd control i.e. web/grease etc. Memorizing a whole lot of fireball spells like in BG2 doesn't work in Kingmaker.

The only part I still think they haven't got right is the kingdom management. The rules should be more obvious - just add some hover-text where it needs to be, and on lower difficulties just "recommend" which cards people should focus on.
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November 9th, 2019, 03:15
I think that's what the survey is supposed to be after. They want to know what rules are hard for players to understand.

Though, after that, they ask about all the RPGs you've played and have you rank them in order of play time. Except some are individual games and some are series of games, which really makes a mess of things.
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November 11th, 2019, 14:00
My problem with the difficulty is that it was so unpredictable and came in spikes.

Mostly about ridiculous amounts of damage reduction/avoidance, rather than interesting mechanics from the monsters.

Also, since it was RTwP - without any kind of sensible automation, most fights became more challenging than they would have been with automation, unless you micromanage everything (which is a major hassle, imo).

Thankfully, with the excellent TB mod - this is not an issue.

Here's hoping they implement scriptable automation or TB (or both) - for their next iteration.

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November 12th, 2019, 04:08
It did seem spikey to me at first (mostly from sticking my nose into areas that I wasn't supposed to go to yet - thank you 'custom markers' mod for letting me track those places) but smoothed out in the bloom chapter.
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November 12th, 2019, 12:27
It was significantly worse upon release, and it was definitely there in places where I WAS supposed to be.

The first iteration of that spider-cave, for instance, was ludicrously poor design.

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November 12th, 2019, 12:31
I found the spider cave tough but not poorly designed. But each to their own That spider cave is completely revamped now (I liked the older design better)
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November 12th, 2019, 12:38
Are you seriously saying you like something about Kingmaker?

That's impossible

IIRC, it's about the only game you've enjoyed in years - after rejecting countless GoTY candidates recommended to you around here.

Hehe, anyway.

To me, the problem with the fight was how early it was introduced - and how ineffective the correct approach was.

I mean, it was way too easy to fail - even if you had all your guys throw fire/acid at them.

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November 12th, 2019, 12:56
Originally Posted by BriefDArt View Post
IIRC, it's about the only game you've enjoyed in years - after rejecting countless GoTY candidates recommended to you around here.
Not rejected - I gave a red hot go with many that were recommended. I just didn't enjoy them much
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November 12th, 2019, 13:01
Originally Posted by purpleblob View Post
Not rejected - I gave a red hot go with many that were recommended. I just didn't enjoy them much
Which is entirely fair.

I'm very happy for you that you get to enjoy Kingmaker so much.

Also, do note that I think it's a good game, overall. It just wore out its welcome for me, but that was after 100+ hours with it.

I wish I could have a game to enjoy on that level, as I really miss losing myself in such a setting.

The last game to get close to that, for me, was probably KCD.

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November 13th, 2019, 04:20
Originally Posted by BriefDArt View Post
I mean, it was way too easy to fail - even if you had all your guys throw fire/acid at them.
I think there's only one or two swarms you need to use AoE on now. There's more if you want to go further into the cave. (Though some folks might be forced to do that - I think there's some sort of skill check to get those berries.)

I'm starting to learn the joys of Dimension Door. I'm doing the Vernhold quest line and twice yesterday I found myself suddenly surrounded by a lot of nasties. Some wandering monsters can pull off ambushes, too. Use that Dimension Door and suddenly you're whole party is ambushing some poor archer/spellcaster! I just hope the AI never learns how to use it. <shudder>
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November 13th, 2019, 10:44
Originally Posted by Zloth View Post
I think there's only one or two swarms you need to use AoE on now. There's more if you want to go further into the cave. (Though some folks might be forced to do that - I think there's some sort of skill check to get those berries.)
Yeah, they tweaked quite a lot of the fights due to heavy criticism.

I do like challenging fights - but I absolutely despise fights that can only be won if you roll particularly well on the dice.

It's ok if it's a fight you're not meant to tackle - but this is one of the very first quests you're asked to do, and there's only so many areas you can deal with when you start the game.

There was a handful of similarly overly harsh fights during the launch segment.

Oh, I did beat them all - but I had to cheese it a little, or just be lucky.

To me, that's not good or well balanced.

I'm glad they decided to listen, though I'd tend to agree they might have overdone here and there.

In the end, though, it's all subjective. Some people can't get enough of DR or avoidance.

I'm starting to learn the joys of Dimension Door. I'm doing the Vernhold quest line and twice yesterday I found myself suddenly surrounded by a lot of nasties. Some wandering monsters can pull off ambushes, too. Use that Dimension Door and suddenly you're whole party is ambushing some poor archer/spellcaster! I just hope the AI never learns how to use it. <shudder>
Dimension Door is an extremely exploitable spell

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