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January 3rd, 2019, 13:13
I was out of the loop for a while and only recently started playing this game. I'm currently at the end of chapter 2 and have to say that it was a fantastic surprise. Very complex and rewarding with enough meat to sink your teeth into for a long time. There's just so much to tinker with. I love it.

I got the first DLC, might be getting the second one depending on some factors and am not interested in the third one. But with ~40 bucks it was already well worth the money.

While I luckily haven't encountered any bugs (started playing with patch 1.3) the game does have some weaknesses. Loading times can become excessive the further you explore (Pillars of Eternity had the same issue), which also ties into the kingdom management being more of a drag rather than an easygoing diversion, and the itemization could really be better*. On the plus side I really dig the character building options.

For DLC I'd prefer if they simply flesh out the base game some more with more classes, a crafting system, more portraits and so on. A witch for example would fit very well into the setting (c.f. characters from Berzerk), but isn't available.


*) Mods can ameliorate some of the issues. Here are the ones I'm using:
  • Respecialization: Build your NPCs like you want, fix wrong choices. IMHO every party based RPG with recruitable NPCs should have BG-like "Level 1 NPCs" built in.
  • Exit to Map: lets you go directly to the world map from any area.
  • Cleaner: helps keep savegames a bit smaller
  • Bag of Tricks: cheat tool I'm using for minor conveniences (I overlooked an artifact piece on some map and instead of traveling to three different branching maps looking in every corner again I just gave it to me).
  • Vendor Progression: makes vendors get better stuff based on your kingdom stats, which in turn makes kingdom management more rewarding and should fix some class builds (I'm playing a wizard who has very limited access to spells otherwise, defeating the purpose of the class)
  • Scale XP. Supposedly lets your 6-man party finish the game with level 20 as opposed to the usual ~17. Set to exponential with factor 1.4. Early level progression stays more or less the same, which is just fine since they seem to be properly balanced.
More mods at NexusMods.
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Last edited by Arhu; January 3rd, 2019 at 21:52.
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January 3rd, 2019, 17:58
I have checked out respecialization as I wanted to replace one feat I chose for Valerie with another. It seems to only allow putting characters back to lvl 0 and removing single abilities, but not adding new ones.
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January 3rd, 2019, 18:02
Originally Posted by Arhu View Post
[*] Respecialization: Build your NPCs like you want, fix wrong choices. IMHO every party based RPG with recruitable NPCs should have BG-like "Level 1 NPCs" built in.
Definitely agree with this. One has to wonder, if they had just stuck with a party based game with no NPCs and put all that development time from NPCs into the end game how things might have turned out. It's a shame CRPGs ever went down this playable NPC route to begin with. Even in table-top games, DM-run PCs were always a drag on the table and story unless the DM was especially good.
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January 3rd, 2019, 22:21
Originally Posted by Darkbridger View Post
It's a shame CRPGs ever went down this playable NPC route to begin with. Even in table-top games, DM-run PCs were always a drag on the table and story unless the DM was especially good.
I do like what NPC companions bring the story. Using a fully customized party without NPCs can tend to feel a bit empty, like in PoE or BG where you'd miss out on major parts of the game. I'm a proponent of the best of both worlds though: NPC party members that can be customized a lot.

I want fleshed out characters with voices, personalities, quests and interpersonal relations and interactions, but I also want to be able to level them up from 0, assign them a custom class (within limits) that fit their personality or alignment, change their portrait and change their name (!).
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January 4th, 2019, 00:32
Originally Posted by Arhu View Post
I do like what NPC companions bring the story. Using a fully customized party without NPCs can tend to feel a bit empty, like in PoE or BG where you'd miss out on major parts of the game. I'm a proponent of the best of both worlds though: NPC party members that can be customized a lot.

I want fleshed out characters with voices, personalities, quests and interpersonal relations and interactions, but I also want to be able to level them up from 0, assign them a custom class (within limits) that fit their personality or alignment, change their portrait and change their name (!).
Does not really work. Valerie story does not work if she is not longer this failed paladin that is now just a good looking fighter. If you lower her Charisma to 10, raise her wisdom and Dex and turn her into a Monk, now she is a completely different character.

Turn Harrim into a Druid and his story also makes no sense now.
And those that can be freely changed without story to ruin are the most boring ones like Ekun the bland ranger.

What people want is already in the game, you can make custom companions for your party 1 hour into the game. You can mod some money in to be able to afford them all. And you can use already existing companions only as your advisors.

I have a full custom companion run, I didn't even need to mod any money into the game. Only difference is that 4 of them lag 1000 xp after my main character (had to create them as lvl 1 so they cost only 150gp each) and the one I could afford to make as lvl 2 so he does not lag.
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January 4th, 2019, 00:54
Originally Posted by Archangel View Post
Does not really work. Valerie story does not work if she is not longer this failed paladin that is now just a good looking fighter. If you lower her Charisma to 10, raise her wisdom and Dex and turn her into a Monk, now she is a completely different character.
That's why I wrote "within limits". I was thinking more along the lines of lore friendly changes like in Baldur's Gate EE Keeper that let you make Minsc a Berserker instead of a Ranger, or Viconia a Cleric/Shadowdancer instead of a pure Cleric and so on. Valerie could be a pure fighter, too. With Pathfinder's multi-classing options a lot of that is easier, granted, but sometimes a few more customization options would be welcome.

Custom companions can't talk, so it's not the same.
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January 4th, 2019, 01:48
Originally Posted by Arhu View Post
Custom companions can't talk, so it's not the same.
I agree that if there are going to be companions they should be customizable. But I don't feel developer built/scripted NPCs are that special. There are better places to spend the writing budget. Heck, just making sure the occassional tagalong for a quest or two is memorable would be enough without making them a full fledged party member.

If a games writers can only tell their story by filling 90% of the party slots with "their vision", then they'd be better off writing a novel. This is the same complaint levelled at tabletop DMs that go too heavily handed with DM PCs or overly crafted campaigns that rely on their DM PC. The sad part is, Paizo does a pretty good job generally of crafting interactable and engaging stories without marrying a party to them. There's no reason this can't be done in CRPGs and still not end up with an "empty" feeling party.

When I finally pick up this game, I will play both ways… with the NPCs and without… so really this doesn't matter in the long run for this game.
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January 4th, 2019, 03:49
Originally Posted by Arhu View Post
That's why I wrote "within limits". I was thinking more along the lines of lore friendly changes like in Baldur's Gate EE Keeper that let you make Minsc a Berserker instead of a Ranger, or Viconia a Cleric/Shadowdancer instead of a pure Cleric and so on. Valerie could be a pure fighter, too. With Pathfinder's multi-classing options a lot of that is easier, granted, but sometimes a few more customization options would be welcome.
PoE2 does that, ok it's limited, I remind two choices, it's better than none.
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January 4th, 2019, 06:41
Here is the humorous comparison I alluded to earlier. I have the equivalent tier collectors editions for Original Sin 2, Pillars 2 and finally Kingmaker. Note: I'm actually reasonably happy with the pathfinder collectors edition given it was such a limited run (about 1000 in existence).

First up, Original Sin 2 statue vs Kingmaker miniature - note the Kingmaker miniature is the little grey blotch in the corner!!! The value of the Original Sin 2 collectors edition was amazing, on release they were selling for 3x the cost on ebay.

KingmakerVSOriginalSin2.JPG

Next is Pillars 2 Deadfire statue vs Kingmaker. This isn't actually a fair comparison as the Deadfire statue was an additional pledge (Elite Collectors Edition tier). For it to be a fair comparison I would of had to have paid for the 120mm Jabberwock Kingmaker statue which I debated hard but at that stage I wasn't willing to risk the extra money.

KingmakerVSPillars2.JPG

The cloth map in the Pathfinder Kingmaker collectors edition box is freaking amazing and so is the artbook. Lack of a manual and poor DVD case are the only downers. Happy to post pictures if people are interested.
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January 4th, 2019, 07:40
It's not always bigger the better I think some people may have been happy that Kingmaker statue is small, since there is less chance of evoking their partner's wrath (I certainly had an interesting discussion with my husband when he received his collector's edition of Halo games which came with rather large sized statue and some helmet shaped CD holder… we compromised and he kept one and gave up on the other).

Originally Posted by bjon045 View Post
Note: I'm actually reasonably happy with the pathfinder collectors edition given it was such a limited run (about 1000 in existence).
Not sure if you are being sincere or not but ok

The cloth map in the Pathfinder Kingmaker collectors edition box is freaking amazing and so is the artbook.
I'd like to see it - I think I have same one except the e-version. I liked it so much I actually ended up ordering the physical book and map. Received it on Christmas eve
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January 4th, 2019, 08:05
Originally Posted by purpleblob View Post
Not sure if you are being sincere or not but ok
I am. The less of something the better from a collectable point of view, especially if the game turns out to be a hit.

Kingmaker box next to the BG2 Collectors edition for scale. It's fairly large as far as collectors editions go.
kingmakerboxVSBG2box.JPG

Kingmaker map next to the BG2 cloth map. Kingmaker map is probably one of the best cloth maps in my collection. Everything about it is amazing. Great quality material. High quality print. Massive size (at least 4 times the size of the BG2 map - and yes, big is always better when it comes to cloth maps!)
kingmakermapVSBG2map.JPG

The rest of the contents. Generic fantasy poster is good. Artbook very good and meaty as I said - it's the reason the box is so large. DVD case is a big letdown, note the insert is not even straight.
kingmaker box contents.JPG
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January 4th, 2019, 08:10
Wow, those look great (now I wish I ordered one too… damn).

Edit1: Hmm strangely your third photo is upside down when I click on it to view…

I received a different book and a map: e-version of The Inner Sea World Guide which I really liked and ordered it online. I'm guessing you also received the e-version?

Edit2: Actually, I do have the same art book as well but again in e-version

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January 19th, 2019, 09:10
According to beta 1.2 patch note the kingdom management loading time has been reduced significantly. I'm disappointed that they made the over powered mobs in the chapter 6 and 7 less powerful instead of cutting the number of encounters down. Those mobs are meant to be very powerful - so nerfing them instead seems to be poor choice.

Owlcat said patch 1.2 should be released in about week's time.

Patch note (full of spoilers):

Spoiler
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January 21st, 2019, 16:17
So in Codex 2018 GotY poll as expected Pathfinder: Kingmaker won.
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January 21st, 2019, 16:34
Is there going to be an expansion or similar sized DLC?
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January 21st, 2019, 17:10
Next two DLC should add a sizeable amount of content
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January 21st, 2019, 18:11
Each additional content release also seems to warrant some massive patches directly afterwards, so keep that in mind.
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January 21st, 2019, 21:14
Originally Posted by Archangel View Post
So in Codex 2018 GotY poll as expected Pathfinder: Kingmaker won.
Congrats to Owlcats and well deserved

Patch 1.2 should be released soon as well.
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February 8th, 2019, 01:20
Update: I asked Myrthos to update the rating of Kingmaker to "Very good" after completing the game again with patch 1.2.

Review Update: February 7, 2019
With the release of the patch 1.2, Kingmaker's rating has been updated to "Very Good" as issues mentioned in the review have been addressed - most of the bugs are ironed out, the loading time has been reduced significantly, the end game encounters are more balanced with extra XP rewards, and many other QoL improvements has been added including more kingdom management feedback.

There's still a room for more improvement ofcourse but I felt the major issues that brought down the score initially has been addressed
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February 8th, 2019, 07:35
Another hot-fix patch was released.

Pathfinder: Kingmaker Hotfix 1.2.3 Released

Spoiler – Patch Notes
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