Gothic 3 Microstutter

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Hey y'all.

I'm experiencing a microstutter in the game. Hard to explain, but basically I get 60+ FPS most of the time, yet sometimes when I turn left or right, frames completely disappear and the screen "jumps". It's very disorienting, and happens a bit too much for my taste.

Any idea why that is? It's not really lag or what we call lag that is more common. It's like the frames just disappeared and the screen instantly jumped to the location you were looking, rather than a smooth transition.

Can it be fixed? Is it related to a setting like vertical sync or something in the Nvidia Control Panel?
 
First, Gothic 3 is still a pretty broken mess under the hood so poor performance is not unheard of. It still happens to this day in spite of all the community patches and even though we have much beefier hardware today than what was available in 2006.

Particularly noteworthy: As of patch 1.6, the game does no longer support any kind of multithreading (multiple CPU cores) so the best CPU for the game is simply the one with the highest clock speed. The number of cores is completely irrelevant.
What you need first and foremost is some nice and punchy GHz. MOAR = BETTAR ;) .

To this very day, the most frequent support requests at the WoG Gothic 3 technical help forums are performance related including people with high end rigs by today's standards.

As for your specific problem, did you end up using one of the extreme ge3.ini files that can be found at WoG and some other places?
If so, I would recommend to replace it back with a default ini file and approach it the other way around, i.e. do not go straight for ultimate settings but work your way up slowly and methodically from moderate settings to more extreme settings until the game starts acting up.
Some of the extreme INIs push the memory requirements too hard. Not good.

As far as hardware is concerned, you want to put the game on a SSD because the game engine is streaming content so it's beneficial to have the fastest possible I/O from disk to RAM.
CPU should be as fast as possible (see above). High GHz single thread performance is all that matters. Juice, juice and juice again.

Finally, make sure you installed everything in the correct order:

- Gothic 3 (start the game at least once to make sure all the config files are created etc.)
- CP 1.75.14
- CP Update Pack (optional fixes)
- Quest package 4.2+update (optional content)
- Content mod 3.1 (optional content)
- CleanUp Tool (optional fix for performance issues... you should still restart the game every 3 or 4 hours of play to clean the slate so to speak)

I would say make sure to start the game at least once after every single one of these steps to make sure everything is still working in between these installs.
It is always a bit annoying when trying to track a problem when you install tons of mods in one session and then don't know which straw it was that broke the camel's back.
 
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Thanks. I think it's actually just how the game is and there isn't a fix. It's a weird issue, where the frames just disappear occasionally when turning left/right. It's not really an FPS hit, per say, but just a frames basically disappear and it appears the movement suddenly "jumps" instantly to the direction I pushed to look.

Still, it runs well enough to play and record my Let's Play. Thanks again.
 
For G3 stutter on multicore CPUs that didn't exist when the game was released a patch doesn't exist.
I don't remember now what I did back then when I had the issue, but IIRC disabling cores through msconfig fixed it for me (setting the number of cores to just 1 - note that you should enable them all back when you're not playing G3).
I might remember wrong though, maybe setting the process priority on high is enough (run the game, alt tab then set the high priority of g3 exe within task manager).

Forget what Moriendor says about clockspeed. The only game that needs you overclocking the damned CPU in order to avoid microstutters is rubbish AC4 code.
 
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Actually overclocking essentially eliminated the problem on my system.

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Seriously? What CPU could that be?
1.5 Ghz sempron or similar?

Man, Fluent bought some extraexpensive 4+ Ghz i7. Do you honestly believe he needs to up his game to 5 or more Ghz just to play a decade old game that wasn't stuttering on superold machines?
And no, G3 does not use Denuvo. :p
 
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Seriously? What CPU could that be?
1.5 Ghz sempron or similar?

Man, Fluent bought some extraexpensive 4+ Ghz i7. Do you honestly believe he needs to up his game to 5 or more Ghz just to play a decade old game that wasn't stuttering on superold machines?
And no, G3 does not use Denuvo. :p

G3 is a single core game. Multiple cores can't help in any case and aren't going to hurt in most cases.

Facts are facts Joxer. Overclocking can help a great deal with G3. Arguing won't change that.

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LOL
Okay Fluent, don't bother with my suggestion.

Go buy some water cooler, grab a screwdriver and overclock the machine "skyhigh". Why use simple solutions when you can complicate it.
The extra benefit: you won't have stutter problems with AC4 garbage.

In the meantime, I found my ancient post:
https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1061141259&postcount=3
As I've said in another thread, the patch looks awsome and changelog shows how much effort was invested into making it, however I have a stutter problem unless I set the gothic3 process priority on high (task manager).
Since I'm into Risen2 currently, I really didn't try to disable AV as was suggested.

In any case, thanks to all modders that worked on the patch!
 
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Overclocking is actually quite simple these days in many systems. Don't need a water cooler and definitely don't need a screwdriver (hint, overclocking uses system bios and keyboard input).

Still if anyone thinks that crippling their system by shutting off CPU cores as Joxer suggests will help, then have at it by all means.

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Wait a minute. Is this issue actually fixable? Do you guys understand what the issue is I'm talking about?

Let me try and be clearer. It's not lag, or low framerate. The game runs at 60+ FPS pretty much always, except maybe during the opening orc battle, it was 45ish. But occasionally I'll swing the camera left to look over there, and instead of smoothly moving like any first-person camera would (playing in first-person, btw), it just may "instantly jump" to the area the camera *would have* moved with a smooth transition. I call it stuttering but it's more like jumping. As you can imagine it's disorienting at worst, annoying at best.

I guess I'll try disabling cores, setting to High priority and also disabling multithreading via Nvidia Control Panel.

Quick question. Is there a way to disable cores + run at high priority without having to set that in Task Manager every time you launch the game?

And joxer, my PC is not that great. i5 4690 cpu, gtx 970, 16 gb ram an ssd and some extra hard drives. :)
 
Wait a minute. Is this issue actually fixable? Do you guys understand what the issue is I'm talking about?

Let me try and be clearer. It's not lag, or low framerate. The game runs at 60+ FPS pretty much always, except maybe during the opening orc battle, it was 45ish. But occasionally I'll swing the camera left to look over there, and instead of smoothly moving like any first-person camera would (playing in first-person, btw), it just may "instantly jump" to the area the camera *would have* moved with a smooth transition. I call it stuttering but it's more like jumping. As you can imagine it's disorienting at worst, annoying at best.

I guess I'll try disabling cores, setting to High priority and also disabling multithreading via Nvidia Control Panel.

Quick question. Is there a way to disable cores + run at high priority without having to set that in Task Manager every time you launch the game?

We both understand the issue. It's a known issue and subject of of many pages discussion in the "Gothic 3 Tweaks" sticky sub-section in the Gothic 3 section of the forums.

Moriendor did an incredibly good and thoughtful job of summing up the various approaches and what does and doesn't work. Increased CPU speed and hard drive speed (or SSD) are among the easiest and best solutions. Overclocking all but eliminated the problem for me.

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I tried all of that, though. Was just making sure you all understood what I was trying to explain.

I guess I should overclock the i5 4690, then? It's already installed on a very fast SSD in a 6.0 Gbps slot.

Thanks for the help, btw.
 
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I tried all of that, though. Was just making sure you all understood what I was trying to explain.

I guess I should overclock the i5 4690, then? It's already installed on a very fast SSD in a 6.0 Gbps slot.

Thanks for the help, btw.

Fluent I don't know anything about your CPU or the best approach to overclocking. In general though, CPU temperature does tend to increase and may need to be controlled. A Google search of recommendations for overclocking of your specific CPU (particularly in forums focusing on overclocking) is likely your best bet.

As to CPU temp, your motherboard manufacturer may provide a utility for monitoring CPU temp; otherwise there are various free CPU temp monitoring utilities such as "Hardware monitor" and "open hardware monitor" that are readily available.

If you run into temp issues, one easy solution is simply to remove a sidepanel on your computer case, and if necessary blow air onto the motherboard and CPU using a small floor fan -- since you aren't overclocking as a permanent system modification, but only for the G3 game.

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I watercool and overclock the crap out of my system because it's a hobby of mine and I still had the stuttering. Last time I tried it was with 5930k@5GHz, 16 GB ram@3200 and overclocked titan x ( maxwell) with game and OS on SSD.

Still had the stuttering. So if overclocking helps, it didn't help me.
 
Thanks. I think it's actually just how the game is and there isn't a fix. It's a weird issue, where the frames just disappear occasionally when turning left/right. It's not really an FPS hit, per say, but just a frames basically disappear and it appears the movement suddenly "jumps" instantly to the direction I pushed to look.

Still, it runs well enough to play and record my Let's Play. Thanks again.

What you are seeing there is the game is dropping frames that can not be rendered fast enough. It's definitely the buggy engine. I have just reinstalled the game for fun since it is a small download, added the CP plus its update pack and, yes, it is stuttering occasionally on an i7-4790K (4.4GHz), 16GB RAM, GTX 1080, SSD.

I unlocked the framerate and I'm using FastSync (in-game vsync off). The end result (all maxed out settings) is up to 190fps between Ardea and Kap Dun, usually around 120fps and then sometimes it suddenly drops from 180fps to 110 - 120 or even down into the 80s and that's when you see the frame skipping/stuttering. It happens especially when approaching packs of monsters or NPCs or cities and probably when traversing the underlying loading cells of the world mesh, i.e. the streaming trigger points.

I would also conclude it is unfixable because of the broken engine and just something we have to live with. It's just like Ultima IX in that regard. That game also never really ran smooth, no matter what hardware you threw at it.

I was also kind of stunned how many bugs (or just "wonkiness") there are still. Last time I played the game was with the 1.70 community patch a few years back but in spite of even more fixes and update packs and all that stuff it is still quite rough around the edges.

Quite a shame that you can't just port it into the Risen 3 engine. I mean it's the same base engine so that would be really nice if you could just bring G3 up to R3 standards *sigh*.

P.S.: Oh, and alternative AI is a harsh mistress in the opening battle already since the orcs seem to find a very special interest in the player character. Several ones stopped fighting their previous opponent, ganged up on me, cornered me and I ended up in an endless loop of getting knocked out. I could not even pick my sword back up before they knocked me out again. It was hopeless.
In the original game this battle was a 2 minute affair but here it is more like 20 minutes since the best course of action with AAI as far as I can tell is to just watch the show, maybe snipe a little with the bow from the sidelines but otherwise just watch and wait until your allies kill the orcs.
 
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I wonder if a FPS limiter would help. Limiting the FPS lower than the lowest FPS drop.

No idea, but just a thought.
 
I tried locking the fps at 60 and also enabled adaptive vsync. The result is that the frames do not drop from 180fps to 110fps but from 60fps to the 40s while producing the same stutters, of course :) .

It's hopeless... the engine is a piece of ****.
 
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Damn. You guys are cool for responding to this. Ty again.

Saki, when are you going to build me a mammoth machine? I need to upgrade my PC soon so I can keep playing ancient RPGs in 4K with graphics mods! :D

@Moriendor, that orc battle was nuts! My winning tactic was run around, getting cheap shots in when I can and keep moving to not get cornered and hit! It worked alright. :D

By the way, loving the game so far. Steam Controller works great, game looks beautiful and it's chock full if RPG stuff. The combat is strangely satisfying, too.
 
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IIRC, the stutters are the result of how they handle streaming - which would make sense given it happens when you turn. Games have a variety of ways to break up content in an effort to stream the relevant areas into memory from the storage device. If their engine wasn't prepared for the memory usage of their assets - then it would make sense that they couldn't seamlessly stream areas in 360 degrees around you - and areas to your sides might have to be loaded "on-the-fly" instead which could be the cause of stuttering.

In the old days, this was easy to detect - because you could actually hear your harddrive being under stress on such occasions ;)

These days, we all have SSDs (I take it) - so it's a little harder to detect when something is related to load delays.

That's just a theory, though - but streaming used to be a big technical challenge in the past - and only few developers could do it properly.

Ironically, PB games are among the best in terms of this technology - so I don't know what went wrong with G3.
 
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