Skyrim - Mods on Console Versions?

What they might look to is a system that elevates certain mods (hand-picked by Bethesda, or from a competetion etc.) and basically promote them to DLC's / mini-addons published normally by Bethesda. At least that's how I would do it if I were therm. I would think it would be a good thing in some ways, opening up a path for the most talented modders to a professional carreer and to earning some money. It would really change the nature of the modding scene, however.

DArtagnan said:

Whether or not consoles will get access to mods, it won't be like the PC scene for the Xbox 360.

The flexibility just isn't there - and there's no way they can put the necessary infrastructure in place just for Skyrim, or a few others.

The whole thing would require a special setup with download/approval/non-hacks and whatever.

Besides, many of the mods require special software to run on the PC written to take advantage of special routines. The graphics mods obviously won't work either.

I'm sure he's sincere when he says he wants it, but he's obviously overlooking how unrealistic it really is. So, either he's more stupid than he seems - or he's being deceitful.

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I don't agree - most mods are simply changes to the database of objects and scripts etc. made with the construction set. That produces a changefile which the engine can cleverly stream into the final version that the player plays. Most mods do not need additional assets, and a lot of the additional stuff on the PC is centred around resolving mod conflicts etc, which we managed fine without before they became available. The fact that the consoles use the same data engine isn't at all a surprise, given it was initially designed to make the devs lives easier.

So it's entirely feasible IMHO. The problem is solely that of getting the changefiles to the users console, which the closed distribution networks would seem to prevent. But I can see a situation where someone loads datafiles into their hard disk somehow (don't know how the file transfers work on consoles). Heck you could probably pretend they were music files, and if the game can play music from the xbox hard disk then it must be able to access the files.

GhanBuriGhan said:

What they might look to is a system that elevates certain mods (hand-picked by Bethesda, or from a competetion etc.) and basically promote them to DLC's / mini-addons published normally by Bethesda. At least that's how I would do it if I were therm. I would think it would be a good thing in some ways, opening up a path for the most talented modders to a professional carreer and to earning some money. It would really change the nature of the modding scene, however.

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Do you mean because we'd have mods for console games? The idea of elevating certain mods is nothing new - I was just playing some Unreal Tournament (99) the other day with some mates, and that has various bonus packs which are basically hand picked mods elevated. And look at all the mods for Valve games that have seen the studios taken onboard and paid.

I don't agree - most mods are simply changes to the database of objects and scripts etc. made with the construction set. That produces a changefile which the engine can cleverly stream into the final version that the player plays. Most mods do not need additional assets, and a lot of the additional stuff on the PC is centred around resolving mod conflicts etc, which we managed fine without before they became available. The fact that the consoles use the same data engine isn't at all a surprise, given it was initially designed to make the devs lives easier.

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What do you mean most mods? Have you actually counted them? No.

Neither have I.

What I have done, though, is played Oblivion and Fallout 3 with and without mods.

In my opinion, the mods that are most interesting - are those that either change the mechanics of the game or add to atmosphere and immersion. The vast majority of the mods I've enjoyed have required FOSE to run, or they've demanded a lot more of the game than the vanilla version. They've also pretty much ALL broken or messed with something in the game - often in a small way, but not always.

Sure, you can have a zillion "quest/item/NPC" mods or modifications to the database. I'm also sure that there are many more smaller mods than there are larger and more interesting mods. That's why the amount of mods that would be feasible is entirely irrelevant.

So, for sure, modding is possible if Beth can make a deal with Microsoft. The problem is, though, that not only would those mods be limited in their nature - they would also have to be either free or be released as DLC. Getting Microsoft to change their entire XBLA infrastructure to accomodate a few games is ludicrously naive. So, it would most likely work just like DLC - where some kind of review process would have to be in place, so that modders could be rewarded for their work. Since money is involved and it would be official DLC - quality assurance is a major factor. So, Beth or someone working for them - would have to assure the game would still work 100% with all mods released in this way.

So it's entirely feasible IMHO. The problem is solely that of getting the changefiles to the users console, which the closed distribution networks would seem to prevent. But I can see a situation where someone loads datafiles into their hard disk somehow (don't know how the file transfers work on consoles). Heck you could probably pretend they were music files, and if the game can play music from the xbox hard disk then it must be able to access the files.

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Possible? Sure. Feasible? I don't really think so.

The end result would be entirely different than the fully flexible and open modding scene of the PC - regardless.

So, yeah - we definitely disagree. In fact, I think you're being incredibly naive if you think this is possible in a way that will closely resemble the PC modding community and scene.

Motoki said:

They are also a pain in the ass to get working decently in my experience.

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I've honestly never had trouble running any of their games, but I know a lot of others have. I've read that their engine is very picky about drivers though, and I try my best to keep a driver-free PC except for essentials, so that might be why.

jhwisner said:

Cynicism and doubt are all well and good, but your presumptions may not be justified.

While NPD had mostly excluded content distributed by download in their estimates, VGChartz did not at least as of 2010. They partnered with FADE (which tracks various digitial distribution channels including Steam) and have included their data in their lifetime estimates for games sold that year. While their methodology is based partially on estimates based on statistical sampling, this does include actual end user sampling.

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VGChartz list DA:O with 0 PC sales. I own one. They are as accurate as a well anybody else that make up numbers.

If you view this as a marketing scheme, it makes some sense.

Again, what we'd really be seeing is DLC. But Microsoft could sell it as DLC, but call it "Community Made Mods" or "Community Made Adventure Add-ons" or whatever. So you'd end up with small (or big, but I'd guess small) expansions that are from the modding community that MS and Bethesda will hand pick and screen (and change as they see fit) for acceptability standards, then put on the Marketplace.

I could see some financial compensation for the modders as well, and maybe the mod community would start gearing towards creating these Xbox-friendly mods. I think they'd be fairly simple add-ons, not requiring new textures, faces, or real game-changing qualities. They'd be DLC that's community made. And sold (marketed) that way through Xbox Live as DLC.

And the marketing hype could go on the box and ads as well… "Xbox version now supports community-made Mods"

Of course this is all speculation. But it would be a way for tons of up front work to be done for almost free by game hobbyists, and also a new way to spin the advertising for DLC.

It's going to be a legal nightmare if they really do it. Just think about modders' copyrights.

I'd guess the modders would have to submit their add-ons and give up legal rights to MS and Bethesda in hopes of getting some money and recognition.

Again, I don't see this as real mods as we know it, but I could see it as a marketing gimmick.

And of course I'm completely just making stuff up here. I'm simply saying I could see it as a possibility.

It won't happen - (I think). And the reason is this:

PC made mods for the -ahem- pc are a) free and b) not certified by Sony or Microsoft and c) not rated by the ESRB, PEGI, USK, BBFC etc. etc.

Mods for Skyrim will have to be this if they ever were to be uploaded to the PSN or Xbox Live (arcade).

I'd love to see this happen. I'd even pay for them, if it was reasonable - ie around 40 MS points per mod, which works out to about $0.50.

A lot of the times, it's the simplest mods that improve the game the most. In the case of Oblivion, I couldn't play without mods like darnified UI, the improved & colored map, harvest containers, diverse dungeons, loot all. Most of those didn't use any extra textures.

oliverh72 said:

I'd love to see this happen. I'd even pay for them, if it was reasonable - ie around 40 MS points per mod, which works out to about $0.50.

A lot of the times, it's the simplest mods that improve the game the most. In the case of Oblivion, I couldn't play without mods like darnified UI, the improved & colored map, harvest containers, diverse dungeons, loot all. Most of those didn't use any extra textures.

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I'm still making stuff up, but I doubt those kinds of mods would be allowed. I don't think you'll ever see something that changes the UI or colors the map, as they will look like a "fix", and that would imply that the game right out of the box needed fixing by outsiders.

If anything, I think it'll be little add-ons almost like modules. For instance: A mysterious wizard's tower suddenly appears in a swamp and you get a note telling you about it. The "mod" is the note and the mini-adventure inside the tower, with some added dialog from NPCs mentioning the tower.

VGChartz list DA:O with 0 PC sales.

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They list North American weekly sales as "N/A" as there was insufficient data for them to track PC sales of that product (an article at the time cited the large number of digital sales through multiple distributors.) This was part of the impetus for partnering with a firm that does actually track digital distribution - this was before that partnership. Their estimates are of course just estimates, but I'll trust their guess over people who assume that everyone else whose numbers roughly agree are simply all just lying - particularly since they and NPD actually do SOME research rather than base their assumptions on personal prejudice and absolultely nothing else.

With the PC version already available for less than 15 €, it can be understood they have troubles tracking the sales.

Have we forgot this PS3 title called Little Big Planet? It worked pretty well there, although I'm not sure if Microsoft is cool with that kinda stuff.

jhwisner said:

They list North American weekly sales as "N/A" as there was insufficient data for them to track PC sales of that product (an article at the time cited the large number of digital sales through multiple distributors.) This was part of the impetus for partnering with a firm that does actually track digital distribution - this was before that partnership. Their estimates are of course just estimates, but I'll trust their guess over people who assume that everyone else whose numbers roughly agree are simply all just lying - particularly since they and NPD actually do SOME research rather than base their assumptions on personal prejudice and absolultely nothing else.

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So you are telling me that all the people who bought the boxed version of DA:O aren't counted because there is "insufficient data", despite gamasutra listing DA:O as the best selling PC title for 3 months in a row using NPD own numbers and ranking.

Good try, try harder next time.