Divinity: Original Sin II - Starter Guide

joxer · September 18, 2017

you said:
All of my characters 'cept archer require a shield which really limits the hit power of my tank. shield are just too important (I think). Also i have no clue how necro et all will play out later in the game.
-
I have beast, ifan, and the two ladies. So I guess no undead for me.

I have one tank with shield and another with 2-handed weapon without a shield.
However, my necro undead also uses shield, just spot what it can add - double the protection of everything else:

61 magic armor where total is 129?
86 physical and total is 163?

OP? Not quite, it's just that staves suck and wand+shield is a much better option in challenging fights.

Oh yeah, as you can spot on the pic there my necro can also heal and basically babysit the 2handed shieldless tank.

So in your next playthrough, add undead willya please.

Maylander · September 18, 2017

you said:
I'm playing on tactian mode and perhaps it was a mistake. Hate to start over but i worry that as the game progress i'll reach a point of just too painful. Part of the issue is that this is my first real game of D:OS-2 (in D:OS i wouldn't dare play below tactian but that's because I'm fluent in the game); and I haven't quite learn all the mechanics yet. All of my characters 'cept archer require a shield which really limits the hit power of my tank. shield are just too important (I think). Also i have no clue how necro et all will play out later in the game.

Yep. I'm not sure if I'll do a full review of it just yet, but I'm about 30 hours in now, and your points are all in my notes (I do notes on the side in case I end up writing something).

The game is hard, much more tightly tuned than D: OS, and some fights are quite drawn out. It's still fun and all, but I feel almost "forced" to go with certain power builds. The shield thing is a good example: My casters all use wand + shield, simply because it offers such an amazing survival tool. I'd prefer dual wands or a staff, but that just won't cut it.

I also have the "glass cannon" perk on my archer, but that was a huge mistake. Avoid that perk like the plague, as it is much weaker than it was in D: OS.

Basically, I'm not sure I agree with their decision to let armor/magic protect against effects, as it centers too much of the combat and gearing around armor/magic. I had similar issues with Mass Effect 2 on higher difficulties, where every enemy was protected to the point where only Soldier was truly efficient. The others all had to just sit behind a container of some kind while waiting for Incinerate or Warp to come off cooldown.

joxer · September 18, 2017

Wisdom said:
Designing PC games with controllers in mind is terrrrrrible!

Man, I owe you a beer.

Maylander said:
I also have the "glass cannon" perk on my archer, but that was a huge mistake. Avoid that perk like the plague, as it is much weaker than it was in D: OS.

Glass cannon has to be babysat by the crew. You'll need Fortify (geomancer 1) and Armor of Frost (hydrosophist 1). These spells you don't start with by default so if you want a glass cannon character, I suggest picking the perk only when your party can support it.
Adiitionally, Enraged (warfare 2) is nifty to prevent mind based status that happen later in the game.

Maylander · September 18, 2017

joxer said:
Man, I owe you a beer.

Glass cannon has to be babysat by the crew. You'll need Fortify (geomancer 1) and Armor of Frost (hydrosophist 1). These spells you don't start with by default so if you want a glass cannon character, I suggest picking the perk only when your party can support it.
Adiitionally, Enraged (warfare 2) is nifty to prevent mind based status that happen later in the game.

Yeah, I know. I'm 30 hours in, level 14 or so. Still doesn't help, because those skills have cooldowns, so you only get to use the glass cannon character once every 3 turns or some such thing. It's nowhere near worth it for the two extra APs you get per turn, given that the character can barely act.

Edit: It's awesome on the first island though. Well worth it there. Might even be worth grabbing it early and then doing a respec on the ship later on.

Avantre · September 18, 2017

joxer said:
Grab a bedroll as soon as possible - Seriously?

The bedroll certainly makes the game much easier (on the normal difficulty, anyway) because clicking on it in your quickbar outside of combat instantly heals everyone in the party back up to max hp (including undead) and gives a well-rested bonus that adds a temporary point to some of your attributes. So for beginners who are struggling, it's certainly a handy tip.

joxer · September 18, 2017

Avantre said:
The bedroll certainly makes the game much easier (on the normal difficulty, anyway) because clicking on it in your quickbar outside of combat instantly heals everyone in the party back up to max hp (including undead) and gives a well-rested bonus that adds a temporary point to some of your attributes. So for beginners who are struggling, it's certainly a handy tip.

The article title is starter guide. Not a guide for people who never played a RPG before.
I mean, a starter guide would discuss stuff we're talking about here. For example. How to deal with physical and magical protection efficiently, why summons seem underwhelming and why it's best not to kill anyone before every story sidekick talks to them (this is IMO a design flaw, they should have set it your unused sidekick appears, talks, then disappears away).

Or even better, how about noting which spells you should get as early as possible. Pyro's Haste+Clearmind for example kicks arse on your spellcasters. A point or two in Necromancy is nifty because of lifesteal, etc.

Instead, they've made an article that looks like addressing problems of 5 year old kids.

Maylander said:
Yeah, I know. I'm 30 hours in, level 14 or so. Still doesn't help, because those skills have cooldowns, so you only get to use the glass cannon character once every 3 turns or some such thing. It's nowhere near worth it for the two extra APs you get per turn, given that the character can barely act.

Edit: It's awesome on the first island though. Well worth it there. Might even be worth grabbing it early and then doing a respec on the ship later on.

I'm aware of 4 turns cooldowns but you can have two characters with those spells.

You're way past my playthrough. So a question. Once we disembark to the next "island", can we return to the ship and respec again?
Hint: pyramid.

Drithius · September 18, 2017

Going to restart on Classic Difficulty. Some nutty experiences at the start of the game plus tales of stat bloat have scared me off of Tactician.

joxer · September 18, 2017

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
:'(

Me? I'm always playing first runs on normal dif.

Maylander · September 18, 2017

joxer said:
You're way past my playthrough. So a question. Once we disembark to the next "island", can we return to the ship and respec again?
Hint: pyramid.

You mean act 3? I haven't reached it yet. You can use a waypoint through all of act 2 at least.

joxer · September 18, 2017

No, I mean, is is possible on the second island return to the ship and respec again and again and again...

Arkadia7 · September 18, 2017

I'm sure they (Larian) are taking in all the feedback and they will make adjustments. If some of these comments are typical experiences, its pretty silly that they are almost forcing all characters to have a shield - gimme a break. And likewise with encouraging power gaming type builds, I'm not a power gamer type at all. I would really resent if I'm forced to play that way because of excessive game difficulty. The game on medium difficulty should allow a freedom of many different play styles, and not limit options such as requiring certain builds.

joxer · September 18, 2017

Man…

It's staves that are underwhelming, that's the only reason I went wand+shield on a spellcaster. Dualwield wands is also an option for a spellcaster especially if these up INT plus whatever school you're using because your damage output will be enormous.

As for shield on a warrior I told you one of mine partymembers is using a twohander. No shield whatsoever. Another one has a shield, but also has a taunt skill because of being that tanky.
However before charging in the eye of a storm, my twohanded melee sidekick uses haste (pyro 1) and fortify (geo 1) to compensate.

It's not powergaming, you just grab what you believe is the most useable for a setup you're planing. Aka, don't waste all new points on every level up. Keep a few to adapt.

Oh and by your logic noone would take a bow user with them, right? In all honesty, Ifan, who is default ranger, has a better damage output in my game than anyone else. And doesn't use any shield. Just "pathetic" bows/xbows. Gives what?

Okay, I can understand you if you just want to play a character that wields a staff. You'll be very disappointed how bad those are (at least on the first island).
But it's not a reason to hate shields.

Maylander · September 18, 2017

2h wielders, archers and regular dual wielders are viable. However, all casters should use shields, and it's not just because staves are crap - it's also because their default, int-based armor lacks actual armor, which means a single arrow is all it takes to remove their protection vs knock downs etc. A shield increases their survivability by an incredible amount.

joxer said:
No, I mean, is is possible on the second island return to the ship and respec again and again and again…

Yep. You get a waypoint to the ship. Can respec as much as you like. Well, I haven't tried doing it loads of times, but I haven't seen anything preventing me from doing it.

zahratustra · September 18, 2017

Oh, this is just joxer being joxer. When he likes something he is ready to forgive (almost) everything. And if he dislikes something, nothing is forgiven

Aerth · September 18, 2017

I am using "stupid" builds because I wanted to test the game for 1 or 2 hours and finally had such fun than I went on playing with my misfits.
Beast is an Inquisitor so 2H, Lohse was meant to tank so she is some kind of fighter with a Shield and 1H but she never really actually tanks. She keeps around Sebille who is my spell caster.
My main is custom made because I did not know you could customize Origin guys at the time. I thought they were set in stone like in all the other games. He is a Battlemage and dual-wielding.

So only one is using a Shield, long range weapons are sold on sight. Only my spellcaster is dedicated to long range actually. All the other ones have spells but mostly buff/debuff or the near and personal persuasion, like touch spells or such.

I play in Tactician mode because fights are fun and I am certainly not a powergamer: If the fights in a game are less fun than the exploration or the story I have no qualm in playing at a low risk mode. I did for example in POE after the middle of the game.

joxer · September 18, 2017

Maylander said:
Yep. You get a waypoint to the ship. Can respec as much as you like.

Thanks.

zahratustra said:
Oh, this is just joxer being joxer. When he likes something he is ready to forgive (almost) everything. And if he dislikes something, nothing is forgiven

Eh?
Enthusiasm doesn't mean I'm blind. I'm not forgiving staves at all - I wanted Fane to use them but it's just a bad option.

If you believe my opinion is that the game is perfect - it's not. It's fun, but quite a few things are annoying and I believe I've already said this inventory system, adapted to mushrooms, is inferior to the spectacle we had in the first game.

A cherry I can't get from the top, doesn't mean I'll refuse the cake this rich with variety.

zahratustra · September 18, 2017

Lighten up man. I was just teasing you!

wolfgrimdark · September 18, 2017

Maylander said:
Yep. I'm not sure if I'll do a full review of it just yet, but I'm about 30 hours in now, and your points are all in my notes (I do notes on the side in case I end up writing something).

The game is hard, much more tightly tuned than D: OS, and some fights are quite drawn out. It's still fun and all, but I feel almost "forced" to go with certain power builds. The shield thing is a good example: My casters all use wand + shield, simply because it offers such an amazing survival tool. I'd prefer dual wands or a staff, but that just won't cut it.

I also have the "glass cannon" perk on my archer, but that was a huge mistake. Avoid that perk like the plague, as it is much weaker than it was in D: OS.

Basically, I'm not sure I agree with their decision to let armor/magic protect against effects, as it centers too much of the combat and gearing around armor/magic. I had similar issues with Mass Effect 2 on higher difficulties, where every enemy was protected to the point where only Soldier was truly efficient. The others all had to just sit behind a container of some kind while waiting for Incinerate or Warp to come off cooldown.

I admit this is exactly why I play on easier modes. I can't begin to say how much I dislike being forced to play X way to survive. Simply no fun. I want to create a character the way I would want them to be not in a way that I have to just to get through the game. Plus I can also live with some mistakes in choices I make which I also prefer.

Aerth · September 18, 2017

Again, I disagree. The game is hard. They have used my group to clean the floor enough times for me to know that. But, I am using a group not having any kind of special build or shields or whatever.
My only dedicated spell caster walks around with 2 wands and the other 3 of my guys are close and personal people with only 1 shield between the 3 of them. I play Tactician and I feel even less constrained than in the first one where I had to use a dedicated healer since I am using them exactly as I built them.

Arkadia7 · September 19, 2017

In any case, I'm not trying to come off as overly harsh. I haven't played the game yet. And mods will be forthcoming sooner or later that will probably allow the player to tweak many of these things to individual taste. Personally, it just sounds odd to me from some of the early impressions that shields are so important. I won't have any shields on my wizards, lol, no way. I'm a strict traditionalist that way. :biggrin:

Divinity: Original Sin II - Starter Guide

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